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Re: In defence of muslims.

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  • miguel_hayworth
    I agree with you, this is why its important to know Gods fear rather then the fear that is used to control in that context, its important we never forget our
    Message 1 of 79 , Oct 1, 2006
      I agree with you, this is why its important to know Gods fear rather
      then the fear that is used to control in that context, its important
      we never forget our first love, this is obediance to God, many people
      seem to think that agapie is eros, but thir is no wisdom in eros,
      because it is not Gods love.

      --- In slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, "naboth675"
      <naboth675@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Manipulative groups like the Potters House use the concept of the
      fear
      > of God to control their congregants. In fact it's a perversion of
      that
      > fear. The fear of the Lord is the begginning of wisdom. The fear of
      man
      > brings a snare. There is much fear of men who lead C.F.M that even
      when
      > someone sees what the will of God is in scripture they fear to
      follow it
      > because the control that their leaders have on them is so pervasive.
      >
      > The fact that many believe God will strike them down after they
      leave
      > C.F.M is just one example of the filthy nature of Potters House
      control.
      >
      > regards...naboth675
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com,
      > "miguel_hayworth" <miguel_hayworth@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Agreed, but you have to understand that the fear of God brings
      Joy,
      > > not bondage, as man imposition of the fear of God they miss
      interprite
      > > it in order to put control on people, that is the diffrent between
      > > biblical fear and fear in religion.
      > >
      > > Their is a Good book you should look up, it is called when a
      church
      > > becomes a cult by stephan wookey. you can get it from amazon.
      > >
      > > --- In
      slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, "naboth675"
      > > naboth675@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > The role of fear in destructive religion could fill volumes. I
      sat a
      > > > ten year course in it. Never again.
      > > >
      > > > regards...naboth675
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In
      > > >
      slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, "miguel_hayworth"
      > > > <miguel_hayworth@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Ken there is a diffrence in following the religion of
      christianity
      > > > and
      > > > > Jesus Christ of the Bible, for the bible says their are none
      who
      > is
      > > > > ritous no not one, in Christ we are made richous, their is
      freedom
      > > > in
      > > > > him, not acourding to religion but acourding to what God has
      said,
      > > > in
      > > > > Christ we have the assurence of salvation, the diffrence
      between
      > > > the
      > > > > PH and a true follower of Jesus is that the PH puts fear in
      to a
      > > > > person the way they force control, with Jesus it is diffrent,
      yes
      > > > > their is a consiquince of not following him..
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com,
      > > > kenhaining777
      > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > [The parable of the Good Samaritan demonstrates compassion
      for a
      > > > man
      > > > > > who was beaten, robbed, and left for dead on the highway,
      even
      > > > though
      > > > > > the two peoples were considered hostile toward one another.
      But
      > > > I fail
      > > > > > to see your point. We should be compassionate towards a
      > > > religion that
      > > > > > justifies flying passenger aircraft into office buildings,
      or
      > > > blowing
      > > > > > up buses with Israeli schoolchildren because it is done in
      the
      > > > name of
      > > > > > Allah and Jihad? That is insanity.]
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The accounts of Christians killing people in the name of
      God are
      > > > > > endless. During the Crusades there was a time when a large
      > > > group of
      > > > > > Moslem prisoners were put to death, men, women, and
      children,
      > > > while the
      > > > > > priests gave the soldiers their blessing. Massive numbers of
      > > > people
      > > > > > were burned for witchcraft during the Protestant
      Reformation.
      > > > Native
      > > > > > Americans were slaughtered mercilessly in the "winning of
      the
      > > > West."
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Any religion that justifies these kinds of killings is
      wrong,
      > > > but it is
      > > > > > not confined to just Moslems. Many Moslems would never do
      > > > violence as
      > > > > > you have mentioned that some others have.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > An interesting thought would be how we would see a modern
      day
      > > > Joshua.
      > > > > > If a man, commanding an army, came along and started
      conquering
      > > > an area
      > > > > > where he killed every man, woman, and child, and said that
      God
      > > > told him
      > > > > > to do it, what would be our reaction? Yet we can read that
      very
      > > > thing
      > > > > > in the Bible and say, "Oh, those people were just so wicked
      that
      > > > God
      > > > > > had to have Joshua destroy them utterly." Imagine one of
      > > > Joshua's men
      > > > > > chasing down a terrified three year old girl and hacking
      her to
      > > > pieces
      > > > > > in the name of the LORD. Somehow, when we read those
      stories,
      > > > we just
      > > > > > don't think of things like that. But that's what would have
      > > > been going
      > > > > > on if those stories are true.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > In fact, many who were winning the West in the United States
      > > > used
      > > > > > Joshua as an excuse to kill the native Americans. There were
      > > > times
      > > > > > where they slaughtered men, women, and children, even when
      they
      > > > were
      > > > > > trying to surrender. Well, after all, we are just like
      Joshua,
      > > > right?
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Religion tends to just be a cloak for other motives for
      killing,
      > > > taking
      > > > > > land, and going to war. I think that is true of many of
      these
      > > > Moslems
      > > > > > who blow themselves up. My son read me some quotes of those
      who
      > > > were
      > > > > > volunteering for suicide bombings in the Mid East. These
      young
      > > > men
      > > > > > were saying that anything would be better than the hell they
      > > > were
      > > > > > living in. They have miserable lives, so the thought of
      killing
      > > > > > themselves "for God" and ending up in paradise is very
      > > > alluring.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Just some thoughts I had on the matter.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Shalom
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • naboth675
      I agree. Y know the most important doctrine is the doctrine of love. The most important and primary law is the law of love. The prevelent aspect of God s
      Message 79 of 79 , Oct 3, 2006

        I agree. Y'know the most important doctrine is the doctrine of love. The most important and primary law is the law of love. The prevelent aspect of God's nature isHis love and that love is an agape love, an unconditional love.

        I was thinking as I read your post of what you said about miracles and you know the greatest ever miracle that you will ever expeience is the new birth. If you are born again you have pased from death to life and you now have Christ in you. You are a new creation. When you see the magnitude of that then allother miracles don't seem so fantastically unrealistic after all.

        Finally we are baptised {and I mean spiritually}  into one body. We  are already united in spirit even if outwardly we disagree. It struck me that this unity is manifest on the outside when we are strong in love, not neccessarily strong in doctrine. Some of the great doctrinal giants were in the nineteenth century and the churches were rife with division. They divided on the basis of belief but our unity did not come about by in depth doctrinal undertsanding but by a profound baptism {an operation of the Holy Spirit as it says in Colossians} That unity was achieved by baptism. The word baptism means to be overwhelmed by something of a nother nature. God's nature is love. We need to be overwhelmed by his love. That's the way unity will be seen on the outside.

        God by his Spirit united us. We by our failure to walk in that baptism divide. Seeing that spiritual unity of believers has started a shift in my thinking towards other christians who hold different doctrines. Have you ever noticed when christains come together across the denominational divide, the Spirit comes in power? God's not limited in his ability. I think we limit him sometimes.

        God bless you...naboth675  


        --- In slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, nancyinsanantone <no_reply@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > "God uses people
        > with sincere hearts and screwy doctrines all the time. Jesus never
        > said that all men would know you are my disciples by the purity of your
        > doctrine but by the love you have for one another."
        >
        > Rahab, it is good to see you on these boards again. I know that you and
        > I differ so much in how we see things, but I really agree with this
        > statement. I have grown up so much since I am finally getting the
        > poison of legalism out of my system. I am even considering that maybe
        > God does still move in miraculous ways at this time, even though I am
        > not looking for such an experience. The idea that believers of all
        > persuasions can have decent conversations, and respect each others
        > differences is a sure sign of maturity. Jesus is Lord, on that we can
        > agree. I hope everything is okay with you these days.
        >
        > Nancy
        >
        > --- In slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, "Rahab "
        > rahabsplace@ wrote:
        > >
        > > I also think that some of the refutiation you quote is quite out of
        > > context as well. I have read Jonathan Edwards on the manifestations
        > > that occurred in the Great Awakening. He hammered on those who
        > > faked the manifestations fiercely. His own wife, however, had
        > > manifestations that be believed were 100% genuine and from God.
        > >
        > > My great uncle was a Methodist missionary and a great friend of Oral
        > > Roberts. He was there for a lot of stuff that went on in those
        > > meetings. I know of people who were healed in the healing revival.
        > > Now, I think Oral's teachings are not the most biblically balanced
        > > things on the planet and he has definitely missed some things. Does
        > > that mean he's demonic and a false prophet? No, it means he's
        > > human, he screwed up and needs to be held accountable.
        > >
        > > A false prophet is someone who tries to steer people away from
        > > devotion to the Lord. For all their faults, the vast majority of
        > > these guys sincerely wanted people to follow Jesus. God uses people
        > > with sincere hearts and screwy doctrines all the time. Jesus never
        > > said that all men would know you are my disciples by the purity of
        > > your doctrine but by the love you have for one another.
        > >
        > > Sound doctrine is important, but the question is which doctrine is
        > > sound? Most of the people who are bashing the "counterfeit" revival
        > > have no knowledge of Greek or Hebrew. Greek is an amazingly
        > > descriptive language which is not brought properly into English (the
        > > Lord's prayer says such things as "give us this day the bread of
        > > tomorrow" - not meaning earthly bread at all. It also says protect
        > > us from the evil one, not generic evil.) I hage studied enough
        > > Greek to know that. It is really dangerous to try to judge what is
        > > sound doctrine or not from an English translation.
        > >
        > > The problem with most of the apologists who are writing about Third
        > > Wave theology and practice have a cessationist theology, so
        > > therefore ANY manifestation of the Spirit is demonic to them because
        > > the Spirit stopped doing all that when the last apostle died. Show
        > > me THAT in scripture.
        > >
        > > --- In slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, "Rahab "
        > > rahabsplace@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Context is everything, my friend.
        > > >
        > > > Just so you know, I was a member of Randy Clark's Vineyard in St.
        > > > Louis back in the 1980's and used to go to kinship at his house.
        > > So
        > > > at least one of these guys I knew personally. I have been around
        > > > John Arnott some and have been around Paul Cain since 1988 or so,
        > > in
        > > > the sense that I have been in ALOT of meetings with those guys and
        > > > know what they preach.
        > > >
        > > > Scripture says that if you ask God for bread, he is not going to
        > > > give you a stone or a snake or a scorpion. In Toronto (my current
        > > > pastor rather looks to Toronto as leadership), there is
        > > considerable
        > > > intercession going on during the meetings to keep out anything
        > > that
        > > > doesn't belong there in order to create a safe atmosphere for
        > > people
        > > > to receive from the Lord. That is why the tell people not to be
        > > > afraid. Jesus WILL NOT let you get something other than the Holy
        > > > Spirit if you are crying out to him for it. Jesus is much more
        > > able
        > > > to lead you than Satan is to deceive you.
        > > >
        > > > A hinderance to receiving WHILE SOMEONE IS PRYAING FOR YOU is to
        > > > pray yourself. Shut up and rest. Let the Lord minister to you.
        > > > You can't give out and take in at the same time, generally. I
        > > tell
        > > > people the same thing. Shut up. Don't tell the Lord what you
        > > think
        > > > you need, let him minister to you what you really need in the
        > > > deepest parts of your heart that you might not even be in touch
        > > > with. You think you need healing. The Lord thinks that what you
        > > > really need is to deal with the bitterness and pain from some
        > > > betrayal in your life. There is a time to pray and a time to
        > > > receive. They are generally not the same time.
        > > >
        > > > Any missionary in Africa will tell you that the gospel is
        > > > ineffective without signs and wonders because of the level of
        > > > demonic power there. Why would you believe in a Jesus who does
        > > > nothing when the local witch doctor can "cure" your kid? Check
        > > out
        > > > Irismin.org for the kind of power encounters that God does in
        > > > Africa. You can preach until you are blue in the face about the
        > > > love of God for man and not get any results, but when God reaches
        > > > down and heals all the deaf in a village, the whole village wants
        > > to
        > > > know who is this Jesus that you are talking about. Signs and
        > > wonders
        > > > are not and end unto themselves. They point people to Jesus. The
        > > > whole point is a DEMONSTRATION of the superiority of the kingdom
        > > of
        > > > God to the kingdom of darkness.
        > > >
        > > > You know, there have been literally millions of people saved at
        > > > Toronto and Pensecola. Millions that are documented in just those
        > > > two places. Iris has planted 7,000 churches in Africa since
        > > 1990.
        > > > Whole muslim villages have been converted on the spot from the
        > > > preaching of the gospel with power.
        > > >
        > > > There are idiots in the Pentecostal/Charismatic/Third Wave
        > > > movement. There are idiots in every movement. Want to talk about
        > > > Charles Stanley's divorce or the guy who is the founder of the KJV
        > > > only movement is on his 4th wife or the idiot they just put in
        > > jail
        > > > for raping women in his congregation? Jim Jones was a powerful
        > > > preacher of the gospel before he decided HE was the final
        > > revelation
        > > > of God.
        > > >
        > > > One of the mistakes that people make is expecting people who carry
        > > > annointing to be theologians. John Arnot made a good statement
        > > > about Benny Hinn, who is a good friend of his. He said if you
        > > want
        > > > to understand the way the Holy Spirit moves, talk to Benny. If
        > > you
        > > > want theology, talk to Jack Deere. And I think that is true.
        > > Just
        > > > because you have power from God does not mean he approves of what
        > > > you say or do. God's giftings are without repentance. He does
        > > what
        > > > he does for his own reasons. There are teachers in the body for a
        > > > reason. There are pastors in the body for a reason. Real
        > > problems
        > > > develop when people try to walk in offices that are not theirs or
        > > > who minister without being accountable to a local congregation
        > > > somewhere.
        > > >
        > > > --- In
        > > > slamthedoor_on_the_pottershouse@yahoogroups.com, "miguel_hayworth"
        > > > <miguel_hayworth@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > The problem I have with the Third Wave and the Power Evangelism,
        > > > John
        > > > > Wimber is this, and i will give a list of quotes from leaders in
        > > > the
        > > > > Third Wave and "counterfeit" revival movements. This page will
        > > > > provide you the documented evidence you need to determine
        > > whether
        > > > or
        > > > > not the people listed on this page are teaching false doctrine
        > > > and/or
        > > > > making false prophesies.
        > > > >
        > > > > this is a very long list includes quotes from: A.A. Allen, John
        > > > > Arnott, John Avanzini, William Branham, Paul Cain, Charles
        > > Capps,
        > > > > Morris Cerullo, Paul Yonggi Cho, Randy Clark, Jack Coe, Kenneth
        > > > > Copeland, Paul Crouch, Jack Deere, Kenneth Hagin, Marilyn
        > > Hickey,
        > > > > Steve Hill, Benny Hinn, Rodney Howard-Browne, Rick Joyner, Essek
        > > > > Kenyon, John Kilpatrick, Kathryn Kuhlman, Aimee Semple
        > > McPherson,
        > > > > Earl Paulk, Peter Popoff, Fred Price, Oral Roberts, Pat
        > > Robertson,
        > > > > John Scotland, Robert Tilton, and John Wimber. Click on their
        > > name
        > > > to
        > > > > go to their quotes. They are arranged in alphabetical order.
        > > > >
        > > > > Their is alot of problems with Wimber and his unbiblical
        > > teachings
        > > > as
        > > > > I will list below.
        > > > >
        > > > > John Wimber did use the term power evangelism, so why would he
        > > > mock
        > > > > him self, In simple terms, "power evangelism," according to
        > > > Wimber,
        > > > > means the combining of the proclamation of the Gospel with the
        > > > > demonstration of supernatural power through the gifts of the
        > > Holy
        > > > > Spirit. The premise is that signs and wonders such as healing,
        > > > > raising the dead, and other miracles, are especially effective
        > > as
        > > > > tools to reinforce the truth of the Gospel. Wimber has said that
        > > > the
        > > > > Gospel is largely ineffective without signs and wonders.
        > > > >
        > > > > Wimber suggests that we must demonstrate supernatural power in
        > > > order
        > > > > to win souls, especially among "primitive peoples":
        > > > >
        > > > > "Primitive peoples often need to see the superior power of the
        > > > gospel
        > > > > demonstrated for them to believe" (Power Evangelism, p. 54).
        > > > >
        > > > > First, there is no such thing as "primitive peoples." Mankind is
        > > > > unchanged since his creation. What has changed is his knowledge
        > > of
        > > > > science, which has produced some advanced civilizations. Second,
        > > > > Wimber fails to see that reliance upon signs and wonders for
        > > > belief
        > > > > is just as pragmatic as intellectual investigation of the
        > > Gospel.
        > > > > (cf. John 20:29)
        > > > >
        > > > > True, lasting faith comes to those who do not need signs and
        > > > wonders
        > > > > to validate God's truth. The flesh looks for a sign; the Holy
        > > > Spirit
        > > > > impresses the truth upon our minds.
        > > > >
        > > > > The Vineyard philosophy of signs and wonders is expressed
        > > > primarily
        > > > > in the teachings of John Wimber. Major points he emphasizes are:
        > > > >
        > > > > (a) The need for a paradigm shift in the Church (we must change
        > > > our
        > > > > Western world view to that which integrates reliance upon
        > > > > supernatural influences);
        > > > >
        > > > > (b) The charismatic movement is "where it's at" in church growth;
        > > > >
        > > > > (c) We should be doing the "stuff" Jesus did;
        > > > >
        > > > > (d) The supernatural practices beginning to emerge were of the
        > > > Lord,
        > > > > and to be desired and pursued (i.e., hot, tingly sensations
        > > > > indicating healing taking place during prayer; trance-like
        > > > euphoric
        > > > > states of "worship" characterized by a restful "alpha-wave"-type
        > > > > feeling, which is verification of the "presence" of the Lord;
        > > > > supposed "words of knowledge," "discerning of
        > > spirits," "personal
        > > > > prophecy," etc.);
        > > > >
        > > > > (e) Every believer can walk, talk, and do the very things Jesus
        > > > and
        > > > > the apostles did;
        > > > >
        > > > > (f) The signs-and-wonders movement is the third wave of God's
        > > > power
        > > > > manifesting in the 20th century (the first wave was turn-of-the-
        > > > > century Pentecostalism; the second wave was the charismatic
        > > > movement);
        > > > >
        > > > > (g) We are involved in spiritual warfare to take the Kingdom by
        > > > > force; for this, the major weapon is "power evangelism."
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > BTW if you think this is alot believe i have a vast amount more
        > > > then
        > > > > the quotes i have listed on these men and further more more then
        > > > 5996
        > > > > people have seen the info and their eyes are being opened in to
        > > > these
        > > > > heretical teachers.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > The Bible is clear about listening to false teachers:
        > > > >
        > > > > 2 Peter 2:1-3
        > > > >
        > > > > 1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as
        > > > there
        > > > > will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce
        > > > > destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought
        > > > them-
        > > > > -bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow
        > > > their
        > > > > shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
        > > > > 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories
        > > they
        > > > > have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over
        > > them,
        > > > and
        > > > > their destruction has not been sleeping.
        > > > >
        > > > > 1 Timothy 6:3-12
        > > > >
        > > > > 3 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the
        > > > sound
        > > > > instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
        > > > > 4 he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy
        > > > > interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result
        > > in
        > > > > envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant
        > > > friction
        > > > > between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth
        > > and
        > > > > who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 6 But
        > > > > godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought
        > > nothing
        > > > > into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we
        > > > have
        > > > > food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 People who
        > > want
        > > > to
        > > > > get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish
        > > and
        > > > > harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction.
        > > > > 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some
        > > > people,
        > > > > eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced
        > > > themselves
        > > > > with many griefs. 11 But you, man of God, flee from all this,
        > > and
        > > > > pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and
        > > > > gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of
        > > the
        > > > > eternal life to which you were called when you made your good
        > > > > confession in the presence of many witnesses.
        > > > >
        > > > > 2 Timothy 4:3-5
        > > > >
        > > > > 3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound
        > > > > doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather
        > > > around
        > > > > them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears
        > > > want
        > > > > to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and
        > > turn
        > > > > aside to myths. 5 But you, keep your head in all situations,
        > > > endure
        > > > > hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties
        > > > of
        > > > > your ministry.
        > > > >
        > > > > It is also clear about false prophets:
        > > > >
        > > > > De 18:20-22
        > > > >
        > > > > 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I
        > > have
        > > > not
        > > > > commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of
        > > other
        > > > > gods, must be put to death. 21 You may say to yourselves, "How
        > > can
        > > > we
        > > > > know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?"
        > > > > 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not
        > > > take
        > > > > place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken.
        > > > That
        > > > > prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
        > > > >
        > > > > Jeremiah 23:16-18
        > > > >
        > > > > 16 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Do not listen to what
        > > the
        > > > > prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes.
        > > > They
        > > > > speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the
        > > > LORD.
        > > > > 17 They keep saying to those who despise me, `The LORD says: You
        > > > will
        > > > > have peace.' And to all who follow the stubbornness of their
        > > > hearts
        > > > > they say, `No harm will come to you.' 18 But which of them has
        > > > stood
        > > > > in the council of the LORD to see or to hear his word? Who has
        > > > > listened and heard his word?
        > > > >
        > > > > Ezekiel 13:1-23
        > > > >
        > > > > 1 The word of the LORD came to me: "Son of man, prophesy against
        > > > the
        > > > > prophets of Israel who are now prophesying. Say to those who
        > > > prophesy
        > > > > out of their own imagination: `Hear the word of the LORD! 3 This
        > > > is
        > > > > what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the foolish prophets who
        > > > follow
        > > > > their own spirit and have seen nothing! 4 Your prophets, O
        > > Israel,
        > > > > are like jackals among ruins. 5 You have not gone up to the
        > > breaks
        > > > in
        > > > > the wall to repair it for the house of Israel so that it will
        > > > stand
        > > > > firm in the battle on the day of the LORD. 6 Their visions are
        > > > false
        > > > > and their divinations a lie. They say, "The LORD declares", when
        > > > the
        > > > > LORD has not sent them; yet they expect their words to be
        > > > fulfilled.
        > > > > 7 Have you not seen false visions and uttered lying divinations
        > > > when
        > > > > you say, "The LORD declares", though I have not spoken?
        > > > > 8 "`Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Because of
        > > > your
        > > > > false words and lying visions, I am against you, declares the
        > > > > Sovereign LORD. 9 My hand will be against the prophets who see
        > > > false
        > > > > visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the
        > > > > council of my people or be listed in the records of the house of
        > > > > Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will
        > > know
        > > > > that I am the Sovereign LORD. 10 "`Because they lead my people
        > > > > astray, saying, "Peace", when there is no peace, and because,
        > > when
        > > > a
        > > > > flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash,
        > > > >
        > > > > 11 therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is
        > > > going
        > > > > to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones
        > > > > hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth. 12 When the
        > > > wall
        > > > > collapses, will people not ask you, "Where is the whitewash you
        > > > > covered it with?" 13 "`Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD
        > > > > says: In my wrath I will unleash a violent wind, and in my anger
        > > > > hailstones and torrents of rain will fall with destructive fury.
        > > > > 14 I will tear down the wall you have covered with whitewash and
        > > > will
        > > > > level it to the ground so that its foundation will be laid bare.
        > > > When
        > > > > it falls, you will be destroyed in it; and you will know that I
        > > am
        > > > > the LORD. 15 So I will spend my wrath against the wall and
        > > against
        > > > > those who covered it with whitewash. I will say to you, "The
        > > wall
        > > > is
        > > > > gone and so are those who whitewashed it, 16 those prophets of
        > > > Israel
        > > > > who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her
        > > when
        > > > > there was no peace, declares the Sovereign LORD."' 17 "Now, son
        > > of
        > > > > man, set your face against the daughters of your people who
        > > > prophesy
        > > > > out of their own imagination. Prophesy against them 18 and say,
        > > > `This
        > > > > is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the women who sew magic
        > > > harms
        > > > > on all their wrists and make veils of various lengths for their
        > > > heads
        > > > > in order to ensnare people. Will you ensnare the lives of my
        > > > people
        > > > > but preserve your own? 19 You have profaned me among my people
        > > for
        > > > a
        > > > > few handfuls of barley and scraps of bread. By lying to my
        > > people,
        > > > > who listen to lies, you have killed those who should not have
        > > died
        > > > > and have spared those who should not live. 20 "`Therefore this
        > > is
        > > > > what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against your magic charms
        > > with
        > > > > which you ensnare people like birds and I will tear them from
        > > your
        > > > > arms; I will set free the people that you ensnare like birds.
        > > > > 21 I will tear off your veils and save my people from your
        > > hands,
        > > > and
        > > > > they will no longer fall prey to your power. Then you will know
        > > > that
        > > > > I am the LORD. 22 Because you disheartened the righteous with
        > > your
        > > > > lies, when I had brought them no grief, and because you
        > > encouraged
        > > > > the wicked not to turn from their evil ways and so save their
        > > > lives,
        > > > > 23 therefore you will no longer see false visions or practice
        > > > > divination. I will save my people from your hands. And then you
        > > > will
        > > > > know that I am the LORD.'"
        > > > >
        > > > > False teachers can repent of their false teaching and change. If
        > > > they
        > > > > do, the church should forgive them and restore them if they
        > > remain
        > > > in
        > > > > sound doctrine. If their apologies are hollow and deceitful and
        > > > they
        > > > > persist in teaching false doctrine, they must come under church
        > > > > discipline as detailed in 1 Cor. 5, Eph 5:6-14 and Matt. 18:15-
        > > 17.
        > > > We
        > > > > must try them (I John 4: 1), we must rebuke them (Titus 1:13),
        > > we
        > > > > must have no fellowship with them if they do not repent (Eph.
        > > > 5:11),
        > > > > we must withdraw from them (2 Thes. 3:6), we must separate from
        > > > them
        > > > > (2 Cor. 6:17), we must turn away from them (2 Tim 3:5,7), we
        > > must
        > > > > mark them and avoid them (Rom. 16:17), we must not receive them
        > > > into
        > > > > our house (2 John 10). We are to reject heretics (Titus 3:10).
        > > > >
        > > > > If they are false prophets making false or inaccurate prophesies
        > > > of
        > > > > the future, however, that is a matter between them and God. The
        > > > > church is to ignore their prophesies from that point on. They
        > > > should
        > > > > no longer be allowed to prophesy in the church, in my opinion.
        > > > They
        > > > > should come under church discipline as detailed in 1 Cor. 5, Eph
        > > > 5:6-
        > > > > 14 and Matt. 18:15-17. If they refrain from prophesy but teach
        > > > false
        > > > > doctrine, the discipline process should start all over again.
        > > > >
        > > > > Titus 1:7-9
        > > > >
        > > > > 1 Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be
        > > > > blameless--not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to
        > > > > drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain.
        > > > > 2 Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who
        > > is
        > > > > self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined.
        > > > > 3 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been
        > > > > taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and
        > > > refute
        > > > > those who oppose it.
        > > > >
        > > > > Titus 2:1
        > > > >
        > > > > 1 You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
        > > > >
        > > > > A. A. ALLEN
        > > > > Faith healer (deceased)
        > > > >
        > > > > A. A. Allen "scammed" his followers by asserting that he could
        > > > > command God to "turn dollar bills into twenties." (A. A. Allen,
        > > > The
        > > > > Secret to Scriptural Financial Success (Miracle Valley, AZ: A.
        > > A.
        > > > > Allen Publications, 1953); quoted in Harrell, 75)
        > > > >
        > > > > Allen was also known to have urged his followers to send for
        > > > > his "prayer cloths anointed with the Miracle Oil" (A. A.
        > > > > Allen, "Miracle Oil Flows at Camp Meeting," Miracle Magazine,
        > > June
        > > > > 1967, 6-7; quoted in Harrell, 200)
        > > > >
        > > > > Allen offered "Miracle tent shavings" as points of contact for
        > > > > personal miracles. (Reported in "New Revival Tent Dedicated in
        > > > > Philadelphia," Miracle Magazine, September 1967, 15; quoted in
        > > > > Harrell, 200)
        > > > >
        > > > > Allen even "launched a brief 'raise the dead' program." Of
        > > course,
        > > > it
        > > > > died.(Reported in "New Revival Tent Dedicated in Philadelphia,"
        > > > > Miracle Magazine, September 1967, 15; quoted in Harrell, 199)
        > > > >
        > > > > Allen told adherents that God had given him "a new anointing and
        > > a
        > > > > new power to lay hands on the believers who gave $100.00 towards
        > > > the
        > > > > support of our missionary outreach and bestow upon each of them
        > > > POWER
        > > > > TO GET WEALTH." (Hank Hanegraaff, Counterfeit Revival, 1997
        > > citing
        > > > > David Edwin Harrell, Jr., "All Things Are Possible: The Healing
        > > > and
        > > > > Charismatic Revivals in Modern America" (Bloomington: Indiana
        > > > > University Press, 1975), 200)
        > > > >
        > > > > "Of course some of you do not believe this. Listen, you old
        > > > skeptic,
        > > > > you don't have to believe it, because it doesn't have to happen
        > > to
        > > > > you. But it had to happen to me. I'll tell you why. I decreed a
        > > > > thing ... God said "Thou shall decree a thing, and it shall be
        > > > > established unto thee ... " I believe I can command God to
        > > perform
        > > > a
        > > > > miracle for you financially. When you do, God can turn dollar
        > > > bills
        > > > > into twenties." (David Edwin Harrell, Jr., "All Things Are
        > > > Possible:
        > > > > The Healing and Charismatic Revivals in Modern America"
        > > > (Bloomington:
        > > > > Indiana University Press, 1975), 75)
        > > > >
        > > > > What A.A. Allen was doing bothered authorities of the Assemblies
        > > > of
        > > > > God. Unlike the leaders of today's Counterfeit Revival, they
        > > were
        > > > > embarrassed by such outlandish claims and outrageous conduct.
        > > > Thus,
        > > > > when Allen, who is extolled today by Benny Hinn as a "great man
        > > of
        > > > > God", was arrested for drunk driving during a Tennessee revival
        > > in
        > > > > 1955, the first of many alcohol-related experiences for Allen,
        > > the
        > > > > leadership of the Assemblies of God had reached its limit. (Hank
        > > > > Hanegraaff, Counterfeit Revival, 1997 citing Michale
        > > > Moriarity, "The
        > > > > New Charismatics" (grand Rapids, MIC: Zondervan, 1992), 35)
        > > > >
        > > > > At the entrance to Miracle Valley (A.A.Allen's 1,280 acre
        > > > community)
        > > > > was a huge sign that made it plain just what was going on in
        > > that
        > > > > neck of the desert. In red and gold, it proclaimed: A.A.ALLEN
        > > > > REVIVALS, INC., MIRACLE VALLEY, ARIZONA. The Blind to See. The
        > > > Deaf
        > > > > to Hear. The Lame To Walk. SIGNS. GIFTS. WONDERS. ... (A.A.
        > > > Allen's)
        > > > > Miracle Magazine, a monthly publication with a circulation of
        > > > 350,000
        > > > > was produced at Miracle Valley. Allen was very careful to
        > > publish
        > > > a
        > > > > disclaimer concerning the wild claims of healing that appeared
        > > in
        > > > > that periodical, sent in by enthusiastic "healees". ... "Utmost
        > > > care
        > > > > has been taken to assure the accuracy of all testimonies before
        > > > > publication and A.A. Allen Revivals, Inc. and "Miracle Magazine"
        > > > > assume no legal responsibility for the veracity of any such
        > > > report,
        > > > > nor do they accept responsibility as to the degree or permanence
        > > > of
        > > > > reported healings, deliverances or miracles ..." (James Randi,
        > > The
        > > > > Faith Healers, 1989, p.83-85)
        > > > >
        > > > > A physician from the nearby town of Sierra Vista, Dr. Kenneth A
        > > > > Dregseth, told an interviewer: "I have seen no miracles. In
        > > fact,
        > > > > I've had to run diabetics to the hospital when they've stopped
        > > > taking
        > > > > their insulin, believing they had been cured in Miracle Valley."
        > > > > (James Randi, The Faith Healers, 1989, p.87)
        > > > >
        > > > > A.A. Allen dogmatically claimed that he could raise people from
        > > > the
        > > > > dead. He actually launched a "raise the dead" campaign in the
        > > mid-
        > > > > sixties. Thankfully it died when his disciples refused to bury
        > > > their
        > > > > departed, and their departed refused to come back from the dead.
        > > > > (Hank Hanegraaff, Counterfeit Revival, 1997 citing Michale
        > > > > Moriarity, "The New Charismatics" (grand Rapids, MIC: Zondervan,
        > > > > 1992), 2 and David Edwin Harrell, Jr., "All Things Are Possible:
        > > > The
        > > > > Healing and Charismatic Revivals in Modern America"
        > > (Bloomington:
        > > > > Indiana University Press, 1975), 199)
        > > > >
        > > > > Allen was eventually kicked out of the Assemblies of God
        > > > denomination
        > > > > when he jumped bail after being arrested for drunk driving.
        > > > (Reported
        > > > > in "New Revival Tent Dedicated in Philadelphia," Miracle
        > > Magazine,
        > > > > September 1967, 15; quoted in Harrell, 70-71)
        > > > >
        > > > > On June 14, 1970, listeners in the United States, the United
        > > > Kingdom,
        > > > > and the Philippines were hearing a recorded message from A. A.
        > > > Allen
        > > > > on his radio program saying: "This is Brother Allen in person.
        > > > > Numbers of friends of mine have been inquiring about reports
        > > they
        > > > > have heard concerning me that are not true. People as well as
        > > some
        > > > > preachers from pulpits are announcing that I am dead. Do I sound
        > > > like
        > > > > a dead man? My friends, I am not even sick! Only a moment ago I
        > > > made
        > > > > a reservation to fly into our current campaign. I'll see you
        > > there
        > > > > and make the devil a liar." At that moment, at the Jack Tar
        > > Hotel
        > > > in
        > > > > San Francisco, police were removing A. A. Allen's body from a
        > > room
        > > > > strewn with pills and empty liquor bottles. The man who had once
        > > > said
        > > > > that "the beer bottle and gin bucket" should have been on his
        > > > family
        > > > > coat of arms was dead at 59 from what was said to be a heart
        > > > attack
        > > > > but was in reality liver failure brought about by acute
        > > > alcoholism.
        > > > > (James Randi, The Faith Healers, 1989, p.88)
        > > > >
        > > > > In 1970 Allen died from what "news accounts report [as]
        > > sclerosis
        > > > of
        > > > > the liver." (Reported in "New Revival Tent Dedicated in
        > > > > Philadelphia," Miracle Magazine, September 1967, 15; quoted in
        > > > > Harrell, 202) One writer describes Allen's cause of death
        > > > > as "cirrhosis" of the liver (see Gary L. Ward, "Allen, Asa
        > > > Alonzo,"
        > > > > in J. Gordon Melton, Religious Leaders of America [Detroit: Gale
        > > > > Research, 1991], 9)
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > JOHN ARNOTT
        > > > > Head pastor of the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship where
        > > > > the "Toronto Blessing" originated.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > "What happens is, there's a transference of His anointing where,
        > > > not
        > > > > only do you see it, not only do you experience it for yourself,
        > > > but
        > > > > you're going to take it home to your people." (John Arnott,
        > > Pastor
        > > > of
        > > > > the Toronto Airport Fellowship, pastor's Meeting, October 19,
        > > > 1994)
        > > > >
        > > > > "Another thing that hinders (receiving the Holy Spirit or
        > > > anointing)
        > > > > is people pray all the time." (John Arnott, at Holy Trinity
        > > > Brompton,
        > > > > England, February 14, 1995)
        > > > >
        > > > > "Yes, Lord, we're going to go for it, we're gonna try to do our
        > > > part
        > > > > to bring the kingdom of God here...and wouldn't it be wonderful
        > > if
        > > > > the Lord would start to move in power and restore the church to
        > > > its
        > > > > proper place and make us the head and not the tail?" (John
        > > Arnott,
        > > > > TACF, 10/19/94)
        > > > >
        > > > > John Arnott and his wife gave approval to a woman's report of a
        > > > > divine message from Jesus that she should leave her husband
        > > > because
        > > > > he was like a stone around her neck. (A Memoir Of "The Vineyard"
        > > > > Cheryl Thomson, 1994)
        > > > >
        > > > > Don't "even entertain the thought that (you) might get a
        > > > > counterfeit." (John Arnott, TACF, 12/16/94, audiotape)
        > > > >
        > > > > Controlling emotions does not facilitate the "anointing". This
        > > > > dilemma is solved, Arnott says, if he and the other
        > > leaders "break
        > > > > those controls off of people and boom, they'll take it just like
        > > > > that." (John Arnott, Discovery Church, Orlando, FL, 1/29/95,
        > > > > audiotape, commentary from Counterfiet Revival, Hank Hanegraaff,
        > > > > 1997)
        > > > >
        > > > > Jesus said "Go pray for Sarah, your friend, I'm going to heal
        > > > her."
        > > > > To enthusiastic applause, Arnott continues, "that girl, totally
        > > > > incapacitated, paralyzed and blind, after two and a half hours
        > > of
        > > > > soaking prayer, got up seeing." Sadly, however, Arnott's story
        > > > plays
        > > > > fast and loose with the truth ... Sarah was not totally
        > > > > incapacitated, paralyzed and blind; Sarah Lilliman's doctors had
        > > > > diagnosed significant psychosomatic emotional problems
        > > underlying
        > > > he
        > > > > physical problems; Jesus did not heal Lilliman as He supposedly
        > > > > promised her friend He would do and when Arnott's associate (who
        > > > > allegedly documented the case) was interviewed, he confessed
        > > that
        > > > he
        > > > > have not done any investigation .. Today, despite the broad
        > > > > circulation of this story by Arnott and his associates as
        > > evidence
        > > > of
        > > > > God's power in the Toronto "Blessing", Sarah Lilliman is still,
        > > as
        > > > > before, legally blind. (John Arnott, "Valuing the Anointing",
        > > > TACF,
        > > > > 10/15/94, audiotape, commentary from Counterfiet Revival, Hank
        > > > > Hanegraaff, 1997)
        > > > >
        > > > > Of the frightening manifestations in evidence in the
        > > > > Toronto "Blessing" John Arnott says the problem is that we have
        > > > been
        > > > > conditioned to believe "that the Holy Spirit's a gentleman" who
        > > > would
        > > > > never do anything "rough or impolite". That, says Arnott, is
        > > > > simply "not true!" (John Arnott, Discovery Church, Orlando, FL,
        > > > > 1/29/95, audiotape, commentary from Counterfiet Revival, Hank
        > > > > Hanegraaff, 1997)
        > > > >
        > > > > "If you're going to be concerned about deception, then please be
        > > > > concerned about the greatest deception that there is, and the
        > > > > greatest deception of all, in my opinion, is not to fall for
        > > > > teachings of a false prophet ... in my opinion the greatest
        > > > deception
        > > > > of all is to have a move of God come through and you not
        > > recognize
        > > > > it." (John Arnott, "Catch The Fire," Midland and Wales, UK,
        > > > 2/2/96,
        > > > > audiotape)
        > > > >
        > > > > It's always revealing, the attitudes people have about critical
        > > > > thinking. A common problem with leadership today is their
        > > refusal
        > > > to
        > > > > criticize or judge the false. This is a tragedy for we need that
        > > > kind
        > > > > of leadership more now than ever! A prime example is John
        > > > Hinckle's
        > > > > prophecy that on Thursday, June 9th, the Lord would rip all evil
        > > > off
        > > > > the face of the earth. That "prophecy" was later spiritualized
        > > and
        > > > > revised to say that the "spiritual vail of darkness would be
        > > torn,
        > > > > allowing people to see the light!" The Kansas City Prophets and
        > > > > others allegedly had received "words from God" to the effect
        > > that
        > > > for
        > > > > New Testament times, the standard for prophets was different
        > > than
        > > > > Deut 18. According to them, a "prophet" can be 40% inaccurate
        > > and
        > > > > still be considered valid! Unfortunately, thanks to people like
        > > > John
        > > > > Wimber, their teachings have been widely accepted. You can see
        > > > this
        > > > > lax view of prophetic standards in this Arnott observation! This
        > > > > quote may well have been said before June 9th. [Arnott] "People
        > > > get
        > > > > funny when things like this happen...June 9th, there was a
        > > > prophecy
        > > > > given by a reputable man,...that the Lord would tear open the
        > > > vail,
        > > > > the shroud of darkness that is over the earth, that is blinding
        > > > the
        > > > > earth, and as He tore the vail of the temple when Jesus arose,
        > > now
        > > > > He's going to tear open the heavens and allow the glory of God
        > > to
        > > > > come down...I really hope it comes true...I know that He's up to
        > > > > something...Don't get too excited about dates, sometimes
        > > prophetic
        > > > > people are right about the event, but wrong about the date."
        > > > (Toronto
        > > > > Leaders Speak for Themselves, Bob Hunter, 1997)
        > > > >
        > > > > "We have had word after word about "get ready, cause you're just
        > > > on
        > > > > the hors d'oeuvres right now," but, the power is coming. We've
        > > had
        > > > a
        > > > > word that said, you know, "I'm just going easy on you now with
        > > > this
        > > > > kind of stuff so you can kind of get used to me and acclimatize,
        > > > > because with the real power shows up I don't want you to be
        > > > > terrified!" (John Arnott, Receiving the Spirit's Power)
        > > > >
        > > > > "I finally start to ask Carol, "Honey, what do you feel?"
        > > > > (Carol), "Oh, it's just wonderful." (Arnott), 'Well, help me,"
        > > you
        > > > > know, and so she says, "Now, just tune in," and so I'd be tuned
        > > in
        > > > > and I'm there, going like this,...and maybe I'd even start
        > > weaving
        > > > a
        > > > > little bit, and I'm thinking "Lord, do I feel something on my
        > > > hands
        > > > > or am I just making this up? Is there something here or am I so
        > > > > wanting this?"...And Carol would say, "No, no, I can feel Him
        > > > going
        > > > > in, I can feel Him going in, Just keep focused!" You know and
        > > > > then...she'd say, "Oops, where did you go?" I'd say, "What do
        > > you
        > > > > mean?" She'd say, "I feel it coming back on me, where did you
        > > go?"
        > > > > And I would realize my mind had drifted off again someplace."
        > > > (John
        > > > > Arnott, Receiving the Spirit's Power)
        > > > >
        > > > > "Don't react by even who's praying, I get so tired of people
        > > > > saying, "Be careful who's praying for you now, somebody might
        > > lay
        > > > > hands on you that's not really free, and you might get something
        > > > you
        > > > > didn't bargain for" [crowd laughs]. Listen, you know what Jesus
        > > > did?
        > > > > He'd walk right up to a leper and lay hands on him, He wasn't
        > > > afraid
        > > > > of getting leprosy!" John Arnott also added: "Don't worry about
        > > > who's
        > > > > praying for you, my goodness, there's not a perfect person
        > > praying
        > > > > for people on the face of the earth!" (Toronto Leaders Speak for
        > > > > Themselves, Bob Hunter, 1997)
        > > > >
        > > > > Arnott says about manifestation expectations: "People ask us all
        > > > the
        > > > > time, "What do you feel?" and that's a valid question. At first,
        > > > it's
        > > > > almost imperceptible, but you think your hands are feeling a
        > > > little
        > > > > heavier, this is my experience, and as you love Him, and stay
        > > > tuned
        > > > > to that and say, "Oh, Lord, more of your presence," and it gets
        > > > > heavier and they begin to tingle, kind of, sort of like
        > > > electricity
        > > > > and it can flow all up and down your arms and all over your face
        > > > and
        > > > > up and down your legs and when it really increases, it's like
        > > > you're
        > > > > being electrocuted, almost." The Bible says, however" Jude 19-20
        > > > > These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the
        > > > > Spirit. But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most
        > > holy
        > > > > faith, praying in the Holy Ghost. James 3:15 This wisdom
        > > > descendeth
        > > > > not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. (Toronto
        > > > Leaders
        > > > > Speak for Themselves, Bob Hunter, 1997)
        > > > >
        > > > > "I spoke Sunday night on the topic A Second Wave is Coming. I
        > > gave
        > > > a
        > > > > call for any who were under the fear of deception by critics,
        > > > etc.,
        > > > > and about 100 responded, repenting for allowing their child-like
        > > > > trust in God to be stolen." (Letter, 2/26/97 from Christchurch,
        > > > TACF,
        > > > > Road Warriors Archive)
        > > > >
        > > > > I attended a "revival" meeting last night at Lake Boren
        > > Christian
        > > > > Center A/G near Renton, WA (near Seattle) where John Arnott was
        > > > the
        > > > > featured speaker. At this meeting Arnott introduced a "new
        > > > anointing"
        > > > > he calls the "Sword of the Lord." With this "anointing" comes a
        > > > new
        > > > > boldness, a "new power". He also called it the "Warrior
        > > > Anointing."
        > > > > It promises "to bring deliverance from your enemies." The
        > > visible
        > > > > effects of receiving this "anointing" include roaring, shouting
        > > > and
        > > > > grasping the hands above the head, then swinging them up and
        > > down
        > > > as
        > > > > if one was actually holding a sword and attacking an enemy.
        > > Arnott
        > > > > cautioned the crowd not to "take the sword if you have any
        > > secret
        > > > sin
        > > > > because that sword may turn on you." After explaining all this,
        > > > most
        > > > > of the 600+ people attending lined up to receive this
        > > > new "anointing"
        > > > > from John Arnott as he grabbed upraised hands and said, "Receive
        > > > the
        > > > > sword." With this "anointed" touch most of the people fell down
        > > > and
        > > > > began moving their arms back and forth (as described earlier)
        > > > while
        > > > > on the floor. Some stood and repeated this same movement. One
        > > man
        > > > I
        > > > > observed actually hit a woman in the side with his "sword."
        > > (John
        > > > > Arnott, Lake Boren Christian Center A/G, D.V.H. in an e-mail on
        > > > > 07/24/97 11:42 AM)
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > JOHN AVANZINI
        > > > > Host of TBN Today "Behind The Scenes".
        > > > >
        > > > > Jesus had an expensive ministry. (John Avanzini, Praise the Lord
        > > > > (TBN), 9/15/88)
        > > > >
        > > > > That cross proved a 3-fold dimension of redemption. (John
        > > > Avanzini,
        > > > > Praise the Lord (TBN), 9/15/88)
        > > > >
        > > > > 30, 60, 100 fold (John Avanzini, Believer's Voice of Victory,
        > > > (TBN)
        > > > > 3/7/91)
        > > > >
        > > > > Jesus had a nice house, a big house. (John Avanzini,
        > > Believer's
        > > > > Voice of Victory, (TBN) 1/20/91)
        > > > >
        > > > > http://www9.50megs.com/ditc/house!.wav
        > > > >
        > > > > Jesus wore designer clothes. (John Avanzini, Believer's Voice of
        > > > > Victory, (TBN) 1/20/91)
        > > > >
        > > > > http://www9.50megs.com/ditc/clothes!.wav
        > > > >
        > > > > Paul had the kind of money that could stop up justice. (John
        > > > > Avanzini, Believer's Voice of Victory, (TBN) 1/20/91)
        > > > >
        > > > > If you have a treasurer, that means you have a lot of money.
        > > (John
        > > > > Avanzini, Praise the Lord (TBN), 9/15/88)
        > > > >
        > > > > Jesus was handling big money. (John Avanzini, Praise the Lord
        > > > (TBN),
        > > > > 9/15/88)
        > > > >
        > > > > http://www9.50megs.com/ditc/money!.wav
        > > > >
        > > > > "[The Spirit of God]...declared in the earth today what the
        > > > eternal
        > > > > purpose of God has been through the ages...that He is
        > > duplicating
        > > > > Himself in the earth" (John Avanzini, "The End Time
        > > Manifestation
        > > > of
        > > > > the Sons of God," Morris Cerullo World Evangelism tape).
        > > > >
        > > > > "Jesus had a nice big house", "Jesus wore designer clothes"
        > > (John
        > > > > Avanzini, "Believer's Voice of Victory" broadcast on TBN,
        > > recorded
        > > > > 1/20/91)
        > > > >
        > > > > "Jesus was handling big money" (John Avanzini, "Praise the Lord"
        > > > > broadcast on TBN, recorded 9/15/88)
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > WILLIAM BRANHAM
        > > > > Faith healer and stated mentor for many of the people on this
        > > > page.
        > > > > (deceased)
        > > > >
        > > > > William Branham said the doctrine of the Trinity is "a doctrine
        > > of
        > > > > demons" (The Toronto Blessing, Stephen Sizer, 1990)
        > > > >
        > > > > William Branham said that Eve's sin involved sexual relations
        > > with
        > > > > the serpent, but the "seed of God" were Branham's followers,
        > > > > otherwise known as "the Bride" or "the New Breed" (The Toronto
        > > > > Blessing, Stephen Sizer, 1990)
        > > > >
        > > > > "Now my precious brothers - I know this is a tape also. Now
        > > don't
        > > > get
        > > > > excited. Let me say this with Godly love. The hours approached
        > > > where
        > > > > I can't hold still on these things no more... Trinitarianism is
        > > of
        > > > > the devil. I tell you that - Thus saith the Lord." (William
        > > > Branham,
        > > > > Footprints on the Sands of Time: The autobiography of William
        > > > Marrion
        > > > > Branham, Part Two (Jeffersonville, IN: Spoken Word Publications,
        > > > > 1975), 606-7.)
        > > > >
        > > > > "Why don't you examine your baptism of Father, Son, and Holy
        > > > Ghost,
        > > > > and that false 'trinity' it's so-called..." (William
        > > > > Braham, "Revelation Chapter Four #3 (Throne of Mercy and
        > > > Judgment)"
        > > > > (Voice of God Recordings, Inc., 1961, audio tape #61-0108, side
        > > > 2).
        > > > >
        > > > > The angel spoke to William Branham saying: "Fear not. I am sent
        > > > from
        > > > > the presence of Almighty God to tell you that your particular
        > > life
        > > > > and your misunderstood ways have been to indicate that God has
        > > > sent
        > > > > you to take a gift of divine healing to the people of the world.
        > > > If
        > > > > you will be sincere, and can get the people to believe you,
        > > > nothing
        > > > > shall stand before your prayer, not even cancer." (Harrell, All
        > > > > Things Are Possible, 28)
        > > > >
        > > > > William Branham falsely prophesied: "that by 1977 all
        > > > denominations
        > > > > would be consumed by the World Council of Churches under the
        > > > control
        > > > > of the Roman Catholics, that the rapture would take place, and
        > > > that
        > > > > the world would be destroyed." (Burgess and McGee, Pentecostal
        > > and
        > > > > Charismatic Movements, 96)
        > > > >
        > > > > William Branham insisted that "believers baptized by a
        > > Trinitarian
        > > > > formula must be rebaptized in the name of Jesus only." (Burgess
        > > > and
        > > > > McGee, Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements, 95-96)
        > > > >
        > > > > Branham explained, "...not one place in the Bible is trinity
        > > ever
        > > > > mentioned...It's Catholic error and you Protestants bow to it"
        > > > > (William Branham, Conduct, Order, Doctrine Q and A, p. 182)
        > > > >
        > > > > "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is offices of one God. He was the
        > > > > Father; He was the Son; He is the Holy Ghost. It's three offices
        > > > or
        > > > > three dispensations,..." (William Branham, Conduct, Order,
        > > > Doctrine Q
        > > > > and A, p. 392). (This view of the Godhead is called Modalism and
        > > > has
        > > > > been held to be heretical by both Catholic and Protestant
        > > > churches.)
        > > > >
        > > > > "Here is what actually happened in the Garden of Eden. The Word
        > > > says
        > > > > that Eve was beguiled by the serpent. She was actually seduced
        > > by
        > > > the
        > > > > serpent. He was as close to being a human that his seed could,
        > > and
        > > > > did mingle with that of the woman and cause her to conceive"
        > > > (William
        > > > > Branham, The Original Sin, pp. 2, 3)
        > > > >
        > > > > "Now, I'm just your brother, by the grace of God. But when the
        > > > Angel
        > > > > of the Lord moves down, it becomes then a Voice of God to
        > > > you...But I
        > > > > am God's Voice to you... Now, see, I can say nothing in myself.
        > > > But
        > > > > what He shows me" (William Branham, Footprints On The Sands Of
        > > > Time,
        > > > > p. 214)
        > > > >
        > > > > When Branham was baptizing 130 converts in the Ohio River,
        > > > > (allegedly) a heavenly light, like a blazing star, appeared
        > > above
        > > > him
        > > > > just as he was about to baptize the seventeenth person ... it
        > > has
        > > > > also been reported that a voice spoke from within the light,
        > > > > saying, "As John the Baptist was sent to forerun the first
        > > coming
        > > > of
        > > > > the Lord, so you are sent to forerun His second coming..."(The
        > > > Enigma
        > > > > Of William Branham)
        > > > >
        > > > > By the 1960's, Branham had clearly become convinced that he was
        > > > the
        > > > > end-times "Elijah" and the true "Messenger of the Covenant".
        > > (The
        > > > > Enigma Of William Branham)
        > > > >
        > > > > It was (later in his ministry) that Branham began to gradually
        > > > > withdraw into his own little circle, where he had an adoring and
        > > > > loyal following. (Essentially this circle was made up
        > > of "Oneness"
        > > > > or 'Jesus-Only' Pentecostals). And instead of his previous
        > > > > unwillingness to speak about contentious or divisive 'minor'
        > > > issues,
        > > > > he now gradually began to emphasize such things mor

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