Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Yes, It Is A Cult

Expand Messages
  • kenhaining777
    I responded to a post by goyegoyegoye, aka, Nick, over on Cracked Pots. I decided to cross post it over here. Nick, once again, tries to propagate the lie
    Message 1 of 2 , Nov 23, 2008
    • 0 Attachment

      I responded to a post by goyegoyegoye, aka, Nick, over on Cracked Pots.  I decided to cross post it over here.  Nick, once again, tries to propagate the lie that fellowship abuse is isolated, and that Waymanland is not a cult.  Yes, It is a cult.

      *************************************************

      goye etc. said:

      [That means that I am not denying that you had a bad time in your
      church, you may well have, but I don't see that from where I am in my church, and many other CFMers don't either. So are we to agree with your all conclusive sweeping statements about CFM being cultic?

      I understand, I am a CFMer and you probably hate me already, like
      most anti CFMers on this group, but think - we have probably never
      met and you most probably have never been to 99% of CFM churches on the planet - and you hate me?? Bin Laden is a jerk, but many Saudis are cool! So are Iranians, just talk to them.

      So to conclude with sweeping generalisations about CFM being a cult
      is just as bad as saying all Jews are money grabbers, or all Arabs
      are terrorists.]


      This is the same tired argument, that has been repeatedly refuted,
      that Nick always tries to pawn off on people. Christian Fellowship
      Ministries, headed by Wayman O., is a religious cult because of what
      they teach across ALL their churches.

      If you were to have asked me if I were being abused when I was a
      disciple in Harold Warner's church, I would have said no. It is only
      at the end, just before someone gets out, that they really start to
      perceive how much they have been manipulated, used, and exploited.
      So, when someone says, "This is not the typical experience. Why, in
      my church everything is heavenly..." then I know where they are at.
      You are TRAINED to say that it is this great church, and to disdain
      any information that contradicts that.

      I have heard the exact same argument from Mormons. One of the pastors who was sent out of Tucson was an ex Mormon. On an occasion when I was speaking to a couple of Mormon missionaries, I mentioned this pastor and what he had said about the Mormon church, and what really goes on in it. One of the missionaries laughed, and said, "He is probably an apostate and hates God and His church!" In other words, they said the same thing about this ex Mormon fellowship pastor as Nick says about me. I hear a familiar sound.

      In the fellowship of Wayman O., the people are taught that ALL Mormons are trapped in a cult. Why? Because of what they teach. No matter how much a Mormon might try to tell a fellowship member that the Mormon church is really good, and that, yeah, there might have been some isolated incidents of abuse, that over all, 99% of Mormon churches are great, the fellowship member will reject that and go back to stating that Mormon doctrine is false and not really based on the Bible. Now that I am on the other side of the fellowship, I can see the glaring similarities.

      As long as the fellowship teaches their perverse headship doctrine,
      their "The Lord placed you in this church" doctrine, and their "give
      money or burn in hell" doctrine, then they will remain a destructive
      religious cult. Those are three of the main doctrines that make them
      a destructive religious cult, but there are others as well. However,
      those three alone justify ex members warning others to get out and
      save themselves some wasted years.

      Fellowship members have no problem telling Mormons to leave the church that they were raised in, and to which all their family members belong, based on their objections to what the Mormon church teaches. The Mormon can repeatedly state how happy he or she is in the Mormon church, but the fellowship member doesn't care, and insists they should leave. And this will come from fellowship members who don't know jack about the Mormon church. When ex members of Waymanland warn people to get out of that fellowship, and these ex members have experience in depth what the fellowship of Wayman O. is all about, current members will hurl every foul insult at them, call them backsliders, and consign them to hell. Such marvelous hypocrisy.

      The only tactic I have had fellowship members use in any attempt to
      debate them is personal insults. For example, to justify the headship doctrine, they will quote Hebrews 13:17 totally out of context, and then attack the person challenging that doctrine. There's almost never any intelligent debate at all on the part of the fellowship member. When I was cast out of the fellowship by Dale Reece, he would not even let me state my positions on certain doctrines based on the Bible. When I picked up my Bible to address the subjects at hand, he simply said, "I don't want to hear it."

      I showed some of the posts in which I and others present valid
      arguments against the putrid teachings of Wayman's World, and I have showed them the responses I get from fellowshippers. Whether Christian or not, they agree that trying to have an intelligent argument with someone who responds in such a childish fashion, such as, "Ken hates God and makes up slander all day long," is a waste of time. However, since other people read here, I will occasionally write something in response to the complete nonsense that Nick and some others write.

      The fellowship of Wayman O. is a destructive religious organization
      because of what they teach people. As long as those destructive
      teachings are in place, it is a cult. Cult members tend to say, as
      they are trained to say, that they are not manipulated, controlled,or
      abused. We all were of that mind set at one time. So, Nick's comment on that proves nothing. The idea that it is 1% of churches in the fellowship where "some" abuse has taken place is so retarded that it defies the English language to state how stupid statements like that are.

      I know of testimonies of ex members from Tucson, from El Paso, from Cape Cod, from Australia, from England, from Canada, and many other places that all say the same things. There are not just a few, as some might fantasize. The reason that some current members fantasize that the number is so small is that they don't realize that the vast majority of ex members just try to recover and get their lives back in order after being so damaged by that wicked religion. Many who would post on message boards don't even know they exist. But don't kid yourself, there are thousands of people whose lives have been significantly damaged by involvement in the Wayman O. sect.

      I can play the insult game. Hey, I'm originally from New York. I
      could say, "Who cares what some fat disciple boy, who thinks he had
      the 'gift' of the Apostle Paul to stay single, thinks about ex
      members, the Bible, or anything else?" But that goes nowhere. I find it laughable, however, when I compare my own experience with some of these guys. I was the 6th man sent out of the Tucson church, after I had been in the church for 4 and a half years, built a church of about 150 people, spoke in numerous conferences, was in many preachers meetings, preached many "revivals," and was in the fellowship for nearly 20 years. When I look at some of these guys who try to say I don't know what I am talking about, I have to laugh.

      I know what the fellowship teaches. I know people are blind to the
      abuse, most of the time, until just before they leave. I know the
      fellowship has instilled in their members to distrust any ex member
      who voices criticism. And I know it's a cult. Not a hard conclusion
      to make once you get out of the religious fog of Waymanland.

      Shalom
      Ken
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Escape_from_the_Fellowship/ 

       

       

       

    • hempkevin
      ... the Catholic Church. In the Catholic Church there is a clear distiction and hierarchy between the clergy and the laymen (congregation). Catholic doctrine
      Message 2 of 2 , Dec 25, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In slamthedoor@yahoogroups.com, "kenhaining777"
        <kenhaining777@...> wrote:

        >Nick, I have to agree with Ken on this. CFM is structured much like
        the Catholic Church. In the Catholic Church there is a clear
        distiction and hierarchy between the clergy and the laymen
        (congregation). Catholic doctrine says that God speaks to, directs
        and facilitates the congregation through "headship" (The Pope,
        Bishops, Cardinals, Priests...) Consequently, the congregation, since
        they are incapable of having God direct their lives, must submit to
        the clergy for "enlightenment and direction". The fruit of this is
        obvious. The congregation is not expected or required to think, read
        or live for themselves. Turn off your mind and just let those who
        are "connected" to God think for you. Whether you accept this or
        not, this is what goes on in 100% of CFM Churches. Sadly, you won't
        see CFM for what they really are until you start to think for
        yourself and try to leave.
        -Kevin-
        >
        > I responded to a post by goyegoyegoye, aka, Nick, over on Cracked
        Pots.
        > I decided to cross post it over here. Nick, once again, tries to
        > propagate the lie that fellowship abuse is isolated, and that
        Waymanland
        > is not a cult. Yes, It is a cult.
        >
        > *************************************************
        >
        > goye etc. said:
        >
        > [That means that I am not denying that you had a bad time in your
        > church, you may well have, but I don't see that from where I am in
        my
        > church, and many other CFMers don't either. So are we to agree with
        your
        > all conclusive sweeping statements about CFM being cultic?
        >
        > I understand, I am a CFMer and you probably hate me already, like
        > most anti CFMers on this group, but think - we have probably never
        > met and you most probably have never been to 99% of CFM churches on
        the
        > planet - and you hate me?? Bin Laden is a jerk, but many Saudis are
        > cool! So are Iranians, just talk to them.
        >
        > So to conclude with sweeping generalisations about CFM being a cult
        > is just as bad as saying all Jews are money grabbers, or all Arabs
        > are terrorists.]
        >
        > This is the same tired argument, that has been repeatedly refuted,
        > that Nick always tries to pawn off on people. Christian Fellowship
        > Ministries, headed by Wayman O., is a religious cult because of what
        > they teach across ALL their churches.
        >
        > If you were to have asked me if I were being abused when I was a
        > disciple in Harold Warner's church, I would have said no. It is only
        > at the end, just before someone gets out, that they really start to
        > perceive how much they have been manipulated, used, and exploited.
        > So, when someone says, "This is not the typical experience. Why, in
        > my church everything is heavenly..." then I know where they are at.
        > You are TRAINED to say that it is this great church, and to disdain
        > any information that contradicts that.
        >
        > I have heard the exact same argument from Mormons. One of the
        pastors
        > who was sent out of Tucson was an ex Mormon. On an occasion when I
        was
        > speaking to a couple of Mormon missionaries, I mentioned this
        pastor and
        > what he had said about the Mormon church, and what really goes on
        in it.
        > One of the missionaries laughed, and said, "He is probably an
        apostate
        > and hates God and His church!" In other words, they said the same
        thing
        > about this ex Mormon fellowship pastor as Nick says about me. I
        hear a
        > familiar sound.
        >
        > In the fellowship of Wayman O., the people are taught that ALL
        Mormons
        > are trapped in a cult. Why? Because of what they teach. No matter
        how
        > much a Mormon might try to tell a fellowship member that the Mormon
        > church is really good, and that, yeah, there might have been some
        > isolated incidents of abuse, that over all, 99% of Mormon churches
        are
        > great, the fellowship member will reject that and go back to stating
        > that Mormon doctrine is false and not really based on the Bible. Now
        > that I am on the other side of the fellowship, I can see the glaring
        > similarities.
        >
        > As long as the fellowship teaches their perverse headship doctrine,
        > their "The Lord placed you in this church" doctrine, and their "give
        > money or burn in hell" doctrine, then they will remain a destructive
        > religious cult. Those are three of the main doctrines that make them
        > a destructive religious cult, but there are others as well. However,
        > those three alone justify ex members warning others to get out and
        > save themselves some wasted years.
        >
        > Fellowship members have no problem telling Mormons to leave the
        church
        > that they were raised in, and to which all their family members
        belong,
        > based on their objections to what the Mormon church teaches. The
        Mormon
        > can repeatedly state how happy he or she is in the Mormon church,
        but
        > the fellowship member doesn't care, and insists they should leave.
        And
        > this will come from fellowship members who don't know jack about the
        > Mormon church. When ex members of Waymanland warn people to get out
        of
        > that fellowship, and these ex members have experience in depth what
        the
        > fellowship of Wayman O. is all about, current members will hurl
        every
        > foul insult at them, call them backsliders, and consign them to
        hell.
        > Such marvelous hypocrisy.
        >
        > The only tactic I have had fellowship members use in any attempt to
        > debate them is personal insults. For example, to justify the
        headship
        > doctrine, they will quote Hebrews 13:17 totally out of context, and
        then
        > attack the person challenging that doctrine. There's almost never
        any
        > intelligent debate at all on the part of the fellowship member.
        When I
        > was cast out of the fellowship by Dale Reece, he would not even let
        me
        > state my positions on certain doctrines based on the Bible. When I
        > picked up my Bible to address the subjects at hand, he simply
        said, "I
        > don't want to hear it."
        >
        > I showed some of the posts in which I and others present valid
        > arguments against the putrid teachings of Wayman's World, and I have
        > showed them the responses I get from fellowshippers. Whether
        Christian
        > or not, they agree that trying to have an intelligent argument with
        > someone who responds in such a childish fashion, such as, "Ken
        hates God
        > and makes up slander all day long," is a waste of time. However,
        since
        > other people read here, I will occasionally write something in
        response
        > to the complete nonsense that Nick and some others write.
        >
        > The fellowship of Wayman O. is a destructive religious organization
        > because of what they teach people. As long as those destructive
        > teachings are in place, it is a cult. Cult members tend to say, as
        > they are trained to say, that they are not manipulated,
        controlled,or
        > abused. We all were of that mind set at one time. So, Nick's
        comment on
        > that proves nothing. The idea that it is 1% of churches in the
        > fellowship where "some" abuse has taken place is so retarded that it
        > defies the English language to state how stupid statements like that
        > are.
        >
        > I know of testimonies of ex members from Tucson, from El Paso, from
        Cape
        > Cod, from Australia, from England, from Canada, and many other
        places
        > that all say the same things. There are not just a few, as some
        might
        > fantasize. The reason that some current members fantasize that the
        > number is so small is that they don't realize that the vast
        majority of
        > ex members just try to recover and get their lives back in order
        after
        > being so damaged by that wicked religion. Many who would post on
        message
        > boards don't even know they exist. But don't kid yourself, there are
        > thousands of people whose lives have been significantly damaged by
        > involvement in the Wayman O. sect.
        >
        > I can play the insult game. Hey, I'm originally from New York. I
        > could say, "Who cares what some fat disciple boy, who thinks he had
        > the 'gift' of the Apostle Paul to stay single, thinks about ex
        > members, the Bible, or anything else?" But that goes nowhere. I
        find it
        > laughable, however, when I compare my own experience with some of
        these
        > guys. I was the 6th man sent out of the Tucson church, after I had
        been
        > in the church for 4 and a half years, built a church of about 150
        > people, spoke in numerous conferences, was in many preachers
        meetings,
        > preached many "revivals," and was in the fellowship for nearly 20
        years.
        > When I look at some of these guys who try to say I don't know what
        I am
        > talking about, I have to laugh.
        >
        > I know what the fellowship teaches. I know people are blind to the
        > abuse, most of the time, until just before they leave. I know the
        > fellowship has instilled in their members to distrust any ex member
        > who voices criticism. And I know it's a cult. Not a hard conclusion
        > to make once you get out of the religious fog of Waymanland.
        >
        > Shalom
        > Ken
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Escape_from_the_Fellowship/
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Escape_from_the_Fellowship/>
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.