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Re: XT10 eyepiece recommendations

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  • langejcarl
    I picked up a Nagler 11mm T6 a few weeks ago. It is an awesome piece of work. When I looked at M42 it was as if I was seeing it for the first time again. I
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 1, 2003
      I picked up a Nagler 11mm T6 a few weeks ago. It is an awesome piece
      of work. When I looked at M42 it was as if I was seeing it for the
      first time again. I experienced the "wow" affect. No complaints re
      kidney beaning or eye relief. That was in my 6" reflector. I am
      trying to sell the 6" so that I can get a 10" GS. I decided that my
      new eyepiece deserves a new scope.
      John
      --- In skyquest-telescopes@yahoogroups.com, "John Bambury"
      <jbambury@b...> wrote:
      > --- In skyquest-telescopes@yahoogroups.com, "doobahh"
      <doobahh@y...>
      > wrote:
      > > --- In skyquest-telescopes@yahoogroups.com, "John Bambury"
      > > <jbambury@b...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > I almost agree completely with your eyepiece recommendations. I
      > > think
      > > > the 27MM Panoptic and the 12MM Type 4 Nagler are no brainers.
      > Just
      > > > throw those 2 straight in the eyepiece bag, they are both
      > keepers.
      > > >
      > > > For high power observing I would get a 9mm Nagler Type 6 and a
      > 7mm
      > > > Nagler Type 6. Without adding the 7mm his maximum power is 250X
      > > which
      > > > in most cases is adequate however on nights of great seeing its
      > > nice
      > > > to have the ability to go a little higher (340X) . The 7mm
      > Native
      > > > will also give him 170X and this I find is a very useful power
      > for
      > > > higher power observing of many DSO's. If I was limited to only
      1
      > > of
      > > > these 2 based on a budget I would probably get an 8mm Radian
      > > instead
      > > > for 150X and 300X barlowed.
      > > >
      > > > Clear Skies
      > > > John Bambury
      > >
      > >
      > > What do you think of the pentax XL 10.5 as a DSO workhorse
      eyepiece?
      > > Would you say a little high in magnification in the 10inch f5 ?
      > >
      > > Geoff
      >
      > Geoff,
      >
      > I think its a great choice.
      >
      > I haven't used the 10.5mm Pentax XL but I have used the 7mm and
      14mm
      > Pentax XL's and rate them very highly. They are about 4 light years
      > ahead of the supplied plossls. They are as sharp edge to edge as
      the
      > UO ortho's yet provide a 60 deg FOV ? (its about that anyways) with
      > 20mm of eye-relief. Generally for most general purpose DSO
      > observation a 2mm to 2.5mm exit pupil is regarded as the ideal. In
      > this regard an eyepiece with a FL of 10mm to 12.5mm gives the
      > required exit pupil. For most of my DSO observation I use a 9mm or
      > 12.5mm ortho.
      >
      > I rate the 12mm Nagler type 4 as the "ultimate" in this regard. It
      > provides sharp clear images right to edge of FOV, it has an 82 deg
      > FOV and about 15mm to 17mm of eye-relief, basically its as good as
      it
      > gets, however it is about $AUS 800 to $AUS 850 and thats a lot of
      > chaff. The Pentax 10.5mm XL used to sell for between $AUS500 and
      > $AUS650 at most dealers however there was a guy in Adelaide (Mathew
      > Lovell) who was selling them for about $AUS420. On the basis that
      > the XL series is now superceeded I don't know what its availability
      > is or what its cost will be. The new Pentax XW series will
      certainly
      > be more expensive than the XL's were at this point in time. Another
      > option is the 11mm Type 6 Nagler, these are about $AUS600 to
      $AUS650
      > and provide an 82 deg FOV with about 12 or 14mm of eye relief, they
      > are certainly comfortable enough to use. These dont have the
      > 2"/1.25" step in the barrel like the 12mm type 4, they are a
      stright
      > 1.25" barrel, but in your position with the equipment you own I
      dont
      > see this as an issue in any way. They are also a lot smaller and
      > lighter than the 12mm type 4. The 11mm Type 6 will also barlow
      > nicely for 228X which is an excellent Planetary magnification and
      at
      > 114X native is ideal for DSO's, with the 82 deg FOV compared to 60
      or
      > 65 deg for the Pentax
      >
      > Taking cost into account I would think the 11mm T6 Nagler would
      suit
      > you fine, but its not cheap either, at the end of the day.
      >
      > Clear Skies
      > John Bambury
    • Tom Hole
      Stef, I think you hit the nail on the head. Not every ep is for everyone and unfortunately, just like different types of telescopes, you have to make trade
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 1, 2003
        Stef,

        I think you hit the nail on the head. Not every ep is for everyone
        and unfortunately, just like different types of telescopes, you have
        to make trade offs. An 82 deg AFOV means less eye relief and vice
        versa. My favorite ep is the Pentax XL and the new XW's would
        probably supplant them if not for my binoviewing addiction. Now I'm
        trying out the Nagler line to see if they will work for me.

        Clear skies,

        Tom




        --- In skyquest-telescopes@yahoogroups.com, "Stefano Cancelli"
        <scancelli@t...> wrote:
        > I've owned all types of eyepieces including the 12mm nagler and
        the new Type
        > 6's (11, 9 and 7 mm). In my opinion, 82 deg FOV is over rated, and
        have
        > since sold all of my naglers and am using exclusively a Pentax 14
        and 10.5
        > and 7 for mid to high power viewing. They have a 65 deg FOV but
        the eye
        > relief is way better than the naglers. I found the naglers have a
        bad habit
        > of kidney bean effect (especially the 12 mm) and the eye relief is
        a bit on
        > the short side (especially the 9 and 7 mm's).
        >
        > I still own a 24mm Panoptic which is exceptional in it's sharpness
        and
        > contrast, but only has a 68 def FOV. I decided to sacrifice the
        extra wide
        > FOV in favor of more comfortable viewing. You cannot fault either
        of these
        > high end eyepieces for their optical performance, but there is
        more to it
        > than that. Just as the mechanics, ergonomics and finish of a
        telescope are
        > important as the optics, eyepieces need to be evaluated on the
        entire
        > package. I just never get fatigued with the Pentaxes and it's just
        a more
        > pleasurable experience.
        >
        > Just my personal preferences. Although it took a couple of years
        and lots of
        > trading in eyepieces to come to this conclusion, you have to try
        them to see
        > what the best fit for you is personally. The good thing is that if
        you stick
        > to buying and selling used premium equipment, you will rarely
        loose any
        > money.
        >
        > Now - anybody have any of the new Pentax XW's that wanna trade? :-)
        >
        > Stef.
        > -----Original Message-----
      • rfclef@aol.com
        In a message dated 10/31/03 8:35:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... My only premium ep is a 7mm XW.... No trade here... I love it. Bobby [Non-text portions of
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 1, 2003
          In a message dated 10/31/03 8:35:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
          scancelli@... writes:


          > Now - anybody have any of the new Pentax XW's that wanna trade? :-)

          My only 'premium' ep is a 7mm XW.... No trade here... I love it.

          Bobby


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John Bambury
          ... they ... fill ... Geoff, I just checked some prices in the Nov/Dec issue of Sky and Space. As you are probbaly aware due to internal problems this is the
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 3, 2003
            > Purchase prices in Australia are exorbitant as you well know.
            > I have been watching Astromart closely the last few weeks for the
            > pentax and the 12mm NT4 only to find when these eyepieces appear
            they
            > sell very quickly. Then there are those who for some reason, wont
            > sell to people internationally or take paypal.
            > Why im not sure. The only extra effort it takes the seller is to
            fill
            > out a few basic details on a customs declaration for the shipping
            > agent.
            >
            > Anyway, I have found someone with a small stock of various pentax
            > xl's at a fair price so I'm crossing fingers this dealer will ship
            > and at a reasonable cost.
            >
            > Thanks for the suggestion, I'll add the 11T6 to my list of
            > desirables :)
            >
            > Geoff


            Geoff,

            I just checked some prices in the Nov/Dec issue of Sky and Space. As
            you are probbaly aware due to internal problems this is the 1st issue
            printed since May. The price of the Naglers has dropped in the last
            few months. Bintel are selling the 12mm T4 for $730 and the 11mm Type
            6 for $570.

            Clear Skies
            John Bambury

            Clear
          • doobahh
            ... As ... issue ... Type ... Thanks John, I can t bring myself to pay that much for an eyepiece (yet). I have ordered a new 10.5mm Pentax XL from usa which
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 3, 2003
              --- In skyquest-telescopes@yahoogroups.com, "John Bambury"
              <jbambury@b...> wrote:

              > Geoff,
              >
              > I just checked some prices in the Nov/Dec issue of Sky and Space.
              As
              > you are probbaly aware due to internal problems this is the 1st
              issue
              > printed since May. The price of the Naglers has dropped in the last
              > few months. Bintel are selling the 12mm T4 for $730 and the 11mm
              Type
              > 6 for $570.
              >
              > Clear Skies
              > John Bambury
              >
              > Clear

              Thanks John,

              I can't bring myself to pay that much for an eyepiece (yet).
              I have ordered a new 10.5mm Pentax XL from usa which will cost me
              approx $375AU including shipping and all transaction charges.

              Geoff
            • langejcarl
              John. Do I correctly understand your post to read that an 11mmT6 costs $570 AUS dollars? If so, that appears to be $395 USD. Whereas the prevailing rate for a
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 3, 2003
                John.
                Do I correctly understand your post to read that an 11mmT6 costs
                $570 AUS dollars? If so, that appears to be $395 USD. Whereas the
                prevailing rate for a new 11mmT6 is $280 USD. Am I missing something
                or is that analysis correct?
                John
                --- In skyquest-telescopes@yahoogroups.com, "John Bambury"
                <jbambury@b...> wrote:
                > > Purchase prices in Australia are exorbitant as you well know.
                > > I have been watching Astromart closely the last few weeks for
                the
                > > pentax and the 12mm NT4 only to find when these eyepieces appear
                > they
                > > sell very quickly. Then there are those who for some reason,
                wont
                > > sell to people internationally or take paypal.
                > > Why im not sure. The only extra effort it takes the seller is to
                > fill
                > > out a few basic details on a customs declaration for the
                shipping
                > > agent.
                > >
                > > Anyway, I have found someone with a small stock of various
                pentax
                > > xl's at a fair price so I'm crossing fingers this dealer will
                ship
                > > and at a reasonable cost.
                > >
                > > Thanks for the suggestion, I'll add the 11T6 to my list of
                > > desirables :)
                > >
                > > Geoff
                >
                >
                > Geoff,
                >
                > I just checked some prices in the Nov/Dec issue of Sky and Space.
                As
                > you are probbaly aware due to internal problems this is the 1st
                issue
                > printed since May. The price of the Naglers has dropped in the
                last
                > few months. Bintel are selling the 12mm T4 for $730 and the 11mm
                Type
                > 6 for $570.
                >
                > Clear Skies
                > John Bambury
                >
                > Clear
              • doobahh
                ... something ... No your not missing anything at all. Thats a moderate markup by normal standards here. Back in Feb, I paid $240AU for a Celestron Ultima
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 3, 2003
                  --- In skyquest-telescopes@yahoogroups.com, "langejcarl"
                  <langejcarl@y...> wrote:
                  > John.
                  > Do I correctly understand your post to read that an 11mmT6 costs
                  > $570 AUS dollars? If so, that appears to be $395 USD. Whereas the
                  > prevailing rate for a new 11mmT6 is $280 USD. Am I missing
                  something
                  > or is that analysis correct?
                  > John

                  No your not missing anything at all. Thats a moderate markup by
                  normal standards here. Back in Feb, I paid $240AU for a Celestron
                  Ultima 12.5mm eyepiece. Thats $168US folks.

                  Geoff

                  P.S. Please be nice to us foreigners on Astromart :)
                • John Bambury
                  ... Geoff, Thats a great deal and very hard to pass up, you just need to make sure you have bought from a reputable dealer as its a long way to go to beat the
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 3, 2003
                    > Thanks John,
                    >
                    > I can't bring myself to pay that much for an eyepiece (yet).
                    > I have ordered a new 10.5mm Pentax XL from usa which will cost me
                    > approx $375AU including shipping and all transaction charges.
                    >
                    > Geoff


                    Geoff,

                    Thats a great deal and very hard to pass up, you just need to make
                    sure you have bought from a reputable dealer as its a long way to go
                    to beat the "sh--" out of them if your eyepiece doesn't turn up in a
                    few weeks time. Email me off list with the dealer as I may be
                    interested in getting 2 myself in different FL's at that price. No
                    way I would pay over $AUS 500 for an eyepiece either, I just borrow
                    other peoples or the clubs :). I do like both the Naglers but they
                    are just 2 expensive for me.

                    Clear Skies
                    John Bambury
                  • John Bambury
                    ... something ... Hi John, You haven t missed anything at all, actually you have done the sums perfectly. The dealers in Australia with showrooms, add
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 3, 2003
                      --- In skyquest-telescopes@yahoogroups.com, "langejcarl"
                      <langejcarl@y...> wrote:
                      > John.
                      > Do I correctly understand your post to read that an 11mmT6 costs
                      > $570 AUS dollars? If so, that appears to be $395 USD. Whereas the
                      > prevailing rate for a new 11mmT6 is $280 USD. Am I missing
                      something
                      > or is that analysis correct?
                      > John

                      > > Geoff,
                      > >
                      > > I just checked some prices in the Nov/Dec issue of Sky and Space.
                      > As
                      > > you are probbaly aware due to internal problems this is the 1st
                      > issue
                      > > printed since May. The price of the Naglers has dropped in the
                      > last
                      > > few months. Bintel are selling the 12mm T4 for $730 and the 11mm
                      > Type
                      > > 6 for $570.
                      > >
                      > > Clear Skies
                      > > John Bambury
                      > >
                      > > Clear

                      Hi John,

                      You haven't missed anything at all, actually you have done the sums
                      perfectly. The dealers in Australia with showrooms, add enormous
                      markups onto their products, due to several factors.

                      To give you a couple of examples I purchased an Orion Shorty Plus
                      Barlow from Joe O'Neill (O'Neill Photo and a great guy to deal with)
                      in Canada. After apportioning the $ 20 shipping charge over the
                      barlow and some other items I bought as well (2" Antares Barlow and
                      some filters) the barlow cost me $AUS 90. The cheapest price I could
                      find the Orion Shorty Plus barlow for in Australia was $AUS168 plus
                      $AUS 7 shipping making it a total cost of $AUS 175 to buy it locally.
                      I tried 7 different dealers for the Orion Shorty Plus. I then tried
                      to buy the Celestron Ultima which is exactly the same barlow with a
                      different label on it and the cheapest price I could find it for was
                      $AUS 214. So I bought it from Joe O'neill in Canada and waited 2
                      weeks to get it instead of 2 days.

                      The cheapest price you will buy a Celestron CGE1100 for in Australia
                      is $AUS12,700. I can buy a return plane ticket to US stay in a hotel
                      for 2 weeks, buy the telescope and return home with $AUS 2,000 change
                      from my $12,700 if I wanted to take that option. To say that this is
                      extremely frustrating is an understatement. There are a number of
                      mail order and internet dealers coming along that offer cheaper
                      prices but these generally are at the lower end of the market as the
                      bigger US companies already have their dealer network established in
                      Australia. eg The sole importer of Celestron into Australia is York
                      Optical and the Sole importer of Orion into Australia is Bintel and
                      they determine the price level these products sell for in Australia.

                      Clear Skies
                      John Bambury
                    • langejcarl
                      Can you order the 11mm T6 from a US dealer for $280USD which equals $403AUS or does something prevent you from doing that? John ... Space. ... 11mm ... with)
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 4, 2003
                        Can you order the 11mm T6 from a US dealer for $280USD which equals
                        $403AUS or does something prevent you from doing that?
                        John
                        --- In skyquest-telescopes@yahoogroups.com, "John Bambury"
                        <jbambury@b...> wrote:
                        > --- In skyquest-telescopes@yahoogroups.com, "langejcarl"
                        > <langejcarl@y...> wrote:
                        > > John.
                        > > Do I correctly understand your post to read that an 11mmT6 costs
                        > > $570 AUS dollars? If so, that appears to be $395 USD. Whereas the
                        > > prevailing rate for a new 11mmT6 is $280 USD. Am I missing
                        > something
                        > > or is that analysis correct?
                        > > John
                        >
                        > > > Geoff,
                        > > >
                        > > > I just checked some prices in the Nov/Dec issue of Sky and
                        Space.
                        > > As
                        > > > you are probbaly aware due to internal problems this is the 1st
                        > > issue
                        > > > printed since May. The price of the Naglers has dropped in the
                        > > last
                        > > > few months. Bintel are selling the 12mm T4 for $730 and the
                        11mm
                        > > Type
                        > > > 6 for $570.
                        > > >
                        > > > Clear Skies
                        > > > John Bambury
                        > > >
                        > > > Clear
                        >
                        > Hi John,
                        >
                        > You haven't missed anything at all, actually you have done the sums
                        > perfectly. The dealers in Australia with showrooms, add enormous
                        > markups onto their products, due to several factors.
                        >
                        > To give you a couple of examples I purchased an Orion Shorty Plus
                        > Barlow from Joe O'Neill (O'Neill Photo and a great guy to deal
                        with)
                        > in Canada. After apportioning the $ 20 shipping charge over the
                        > barlow and some other items I bought as well (2" Antares Barlow and
                        > some filters) the barlow cost me $AUS 90. The cheapest price I
                        could
                        > find the Orion Shorty Plus barlow for in Australia was $AUS168 plus
                        > $AUS 7 shipping making it a total cost of $AUS 175 to buy it
                        locally.
                        > I tried 7 different dealers for the Orion Shorty Plus. I then
                        tried
                        > to buy the Celestron Ultima which is exactly the same barlow with a
                        > different label on it and the cheapest price I could find it for
                        was
                        > $AUS 214. So I bought it from Joe O'neill in Canada and waited 2
                        > weeks to get it instead of 2 days.
                        >
                        > The cheapest price you will buy a Celestron CGE1100 for in
                        Australia
                        > is $AUS12,700. I can buy a return plane ticket to US stay in a
                        hotel
                        > for 2 weeks, buy the telescope and return home with $AUS 2,000
                        change
                        > from my $12,700 if I wanted to take that option. To say that this
                        is
                        > extremely frustrating is an understatement. There are a number of
                        > mail order and internet dealers coming along that offer cheaper
                        > prices but these generally are at the lower end of the market as
                        the
                        > bigger US companies already have their dealer network established
                        in
                        > Australia. eg The sole importer of Celestron into Australia is York
                        > Optical and the Sole importer of Orion into Australia is Bintel and
                        > they determine the price level these products sell for in Australia.
                        >
                        > Clear Skies
                        > John Bambury
                      • John Bambury
                        ... Only the fact that if the dealer is less than scrupulous its a long way to go to yell at him if your eyepiece is damaged or doesn t turn up. Clear Skies
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 4, 2003
                          --- In skyquest-telescopes@yahoogroups.com, "langejcarl"
                          <langejcarl@y...> wrote:
                          > Can you order the 11mm T6 from a US dealer for $280USD which equals
                          > $403AUS or does something prevent you from doing that?
                          > John
                          > --- In skyquest-telescopes@yahoogroups.com, "John Bambury"
                          > <jbambury@b...> wrote:
                          > > --- In skyquest-telescopes@yahoogroups.com, "langejcarl"
                          > > <langejcarl@y...> wrote:
                          > > > John.



                          Only the fact that if the dealer is less than scrupulous its a long
                          way to go to yell at him if your eyepiece is damaged or doesn't turn
                          up.

                          Clear Skies
                          John Bambury
                        • doobahh
                          ... There are few dealers which are willing to deal with customers outside of Nth America. Those that will , want to charge ridiculously high shipping charges
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 5, 2003
                            --- In skyquest-telescopes@yahoogroups.com, "langejcarl"
                            <langejcarl@y...> wrote:
                            > Can you order the 11mm T6 from a US dealer for $280USD which equals
                            > $403AUS or does something prevent you from doing that?
                            > John

                            There are few dealers which are willing to deal with customers
                            outside of Nth America. Those that will , want to charge ridiculously
                            high shipping charges (eg. Adorama $58USD) . Add to that wire
                            transfer fees charged at both ends (many wont accept credit card
                            internationally) and the costs add up.

                            Geoff
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