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Zooming in

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  • Kim Gowney
    Would it be possible, when dragging an area for zooming in to have it open in a new window and retain the settings that are in use in the current window. The
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 1, 2003
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      Would it be possible, when dragging an area for zooming in to have it open
      in a new window and retain the settings that are in use in the current
      window.
      The reason I ask is that, although you can configure SM to your hearts
      content, you still need to switch some catatalogues etc on and off depnding
      an what you are doing.
      For example, last night I was looking at Messeir Objects in Saggitariius, I
      have SM configured to swithc on the NGC Cat at level 4-10, but for this
      session I only wanted to see the M list, so I just switched off the ngc, but
      if I zoomed in then by default the other cats switch back on again (of
      course, they should do!), but if it could be as suggested, then you would
      have two options of zooming, one via F2/3 which would remain as is, the
      other by draging an area out which retained the settings in the parent
      window, it would be extra good if such a window was able to retain the
      rotation set as well ! {:+))

      Just as a side note, switching the other catalogues off may not seem a big
      deal, but on a laptop using the red night colour, it is pretty difficult to
      see which boxes are ticked and which are not.

      Kim Gowney.
    • Chris Marriott
      ... From: Kim Gowney To: Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 8:40 AM Subject: [skymap] Zooming in ... You can
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 1, 2003
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Kim Gowney" <kapeji@...>
        To: <skymap@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 8:40 AM
        Subject: [skymap] Zooming in


        > Would it be possible, when dragging an area for zooming in to have it open
        > in a new window and retain the settings that are in use in the current
        > window.

        You can already do this, Kim. When you zoom in, you get the zoom
        confirmation dialog. At the bottom of this dialog is a "Create a new map
        window" check box. If you check this box, you'll get a new map window
        created, which copies all its settings from the current map.

        Regards,

        Chris
      • Kim Gowney
        Hi Chris, Thanks, I never knew it retained the orientation, so I learned something new there!! But actually it only does that (copies the settings) to a
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 1, 2003
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          Hi Chris,
          Thanks, I never knew it retained the orientation, so I learned something new
          there!! But actually it only does that (copies the settings) to a certain
          degree, because it jumps up a level it also switches on the catalogues that
          are activated at the higher levels, I was wondering whether it would be
          possible for the window to ignore the catalogue settings as well, so that if
          I had only one catalogue activated it would stay that way regardless of the
          level I zoomed too. Maybe that could be a selectable funtion of the zoom
          confirmation window, a check box for retaining current level settings or
          something, Possible?


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Chris Marriott" <chris@...>
          To: <skymap@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 9:33 AM
          Subject: Re: [skymap] Zooming in



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Kim Gowney" <kapeji@...>
          To: <skymap@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 8:40 AM
          Subject: [skymap] Zooming in


          > Would it be possible, when dragging an area for zooming in to have it open
          > in a new window and retain the settings that are in use in the current
          > window.

          You can already do this, Kim. When you zoom in, you get the zoom
          confirmation dialog. At the bottom of this dialog is a "Create a new map
          window" check box. If you check this box, you'll get a new map window
          created, which copies all its settings from the current map.

          Regards,

          Chris
        • Kim Gowney
          Dammit, I knew when I posted my reply some thing was wrong, the window does not retain the orientation either, so that would also be desirable! ( I really
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 1, 2003
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            Dammit, I knew when I posted my reply some thing was wrong, the window does
            not retain the orientation either, so that would also be desirable! ( I
            really ought to check three times before hitting the send button).
          • Kim Gowney
            Sorry to harp back to this again, but all I see the new window retaining as far as settings go is the level settings, which any new window would have anyway,
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 2, 2003
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              Sorry to harp back to this again, but all I see the new window retaining as
              far as settings go is the level settings, which any new window would have
              anyway, or is something not working as it should for me here? If I select a
              new window by dragging out a zoomed area, any rotation is lost and the
              catalogues are switched on according to their current level settings, what I
              would like is for the new window to keep all the settings as is, any
              catalogues that were temporarily switched off for the original window should
              remain off for the new one and the rotation should remain as well, currently
              I am not seeing that.
              Is that a do-able request?
            • Chris Marriott
              ... Hi Kim, When you zoom in, you re changing the view level. As such, SkyMap will naturally reset the settings to match the view level, just as it always
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 3, 2003
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                Quoting Kim Gowney <kapeji@...>:

                > Sorry to harp back to this again, but all I see the new window retaining as
                > far as settings go is the level settings, which any new window would have
                > anyway, or is something not working as it should for me here? If I select a
                > new window by dragging out a zoomed area, any rotation is lost and the
                > catalogues are switched on according to their current level settings, what I
                > would like is for the new window to keep all the settings as is, any
                > catalogues that were temporarily switched off for the original window should
                > remain off for the new one and the rotation should remain as well, currently
                > I am not seeing that.
                > Is that a do-able request?
                >

                Hi Kim,

                When you zoom in, you're changing the view level. As such, SkyMap will
                naturally reset the settings to "match" the view level, just as it always does.
                If you want "manual" control of the catalogs, this can be achieved by setting
                their level range to "0 to 0". If you do that, SkyMap will never switch them on
                or off itself, but will leave it to you to do so.

                The fact that SkyMap switches things on or off as the field of view changes is
                one of the fundamental "strengths" of the program; it means that once you have
                things set up as you want them, you don't then have to switch 50 things on or
                off manually when you zoom in or out. I have no intention of changing this!

                The "zoom lock" button allows you to zoom in or out without changing settings
                according to the level, but I suspect that this doesn't work "between maps"; I
                honestly don't know.

                The fact that a new map goes to its default orientation is "by design"; eg,
                it's what permits the program to automatically switch between alt/az and ra/dec
                orientation as you zoom in and out. This is something which perhaps needs
                deeper thought.

                Regards,

                Chris
              • Chris Marriott
                ... Ignore what I said above; it s early in the morning, and I ve not yet woken up :-). The reason the orientation resets when you zoom to a new map (rather
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 3, 2003
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                  Quoting Chris Marriott <chris@...>:

                  >
                  > The fact that a new map goes to its default orientation is "by design"; eg,
                  > it's what permits the program to automatically switch between alt/az and
                  > ra/dec
                  > orientation as you zoom in and out. This is something which perhaps needs
                  > deeper thought.
                  >

                  Ignore what I said above; it's early in the morning, and I've not yet woken
                  up :-).

                  The reason the orientation "resets" when you zoom to a new map (rather than
                  zooming in on a current map) is that when you zoom to a new map what SkyMap
                  does is save the map to a temporary ".smp" file (just as if you'd done
                  a "File/Save"), then create a new map, and loads the temporary file into that
                  new map. The reason the orientation isn't preserved is simply that the map
                  orientation is not currently stored as part of a SkyMap ".smp" file. It
                  probably should be, but in the current file format, it isn't.

                  Regards,

                  Chris
                • Chris Marriott
                  ... Giving this more thought, Kim, what I believe you re asking for is a facility to create a clone of the current map, rather than the existing facility to
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 3, 2003
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                    Quoting Kim Gowney <kapeji@...>:

                    > Sorry to harp back to this again, but all I see the new window retaining as
                    > far as settings go is the level settings, which any new window would have
                    > anyway, or is something not working as it should for me here? If I select a
                    > new window by dragging out a zoomed area, any rotation is lost and the
                    > catalogues are switched on according to their current level settings, what I
                    > would like is for the new window to keep all the settings as is, any
                    > catalogues that were temporarily switched off for the original window should
                    > remain off for the new one and the rotation should remain as well, currently
                    > I am not seeing that.
                    > Is that a do-able request?
                    >

                    Giving this more thought, Kim, what I believe you're asking for is a facility
                    to create a "clone" of the current map, rather than the existing facility to
                    zoom in and create a new map as a result of the zoom operation.

                    The reason things like catalogs get reset in the current operation is because
                    it _is_ a zoom operation.

                    This will need to go on the "to do" list; it's something which I don't recall
                    anyone asking for previously.

                    Regards,

                    Chris
                  • Gary Trapuzzano
                    Hi Chris, As a long time user of SkyMap (since Version 3), my opinion is that the orientation should be retained during zoom operations. It s always been a
                    Message 9 of 20 , Sep 3, 2003
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                      Hi Chris,

                      As a long time user of SkyMap (since Version 3), my opinion is that the
                      orientation should be retained during zoom operations. It's always been
                      a bother to me to have to reorient the map view after a zoom operation.

                      Regards,
                      Gary


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Chris Marriott [mailto:chris@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 3:55 AM
                      To: skymap@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [skymap] Zooming in


                      Quoting Chris Marriott <chris@...>:

                      >
                      > The fact that a new map goes to its default orientation is "by
                      design"; eg,
                      > it's what permits the program to automatically switch between alt/az
                      and
                      > ra/dec
                      > orientation as you zoom in and out. This is something which perhaps
                      needs
                      > deeper thought.
                      >

                      Ignore what I said above; it's early in the morning, and I've not yet
                      woken
                      up :-).

                      The reason the orientation "resets" when you zoom to a new map (rather
                      than
                      zooming in on a current map) is that when you zoom to a new map what
                      SkyMap
                      does is save the map to a temporary ".smp" file (just as if you'd done
                      a "File/Save"), then create a new map, and loads the temporary file into
                      that
                      new map. The reason the orientation isn't preserved is simply that the
                      map
                      orientation is not currently stored as part of a SkyMap ".smp" file. It
                      probably should be, but in the current file format, it isn't.

                      Regards,

                      Chris


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                    • Kim Gowney
                      Yes a clone is a good description of what I meant Chris, I understand why the map does what it does now, but would like an option to generate such a clone from
                      Message 10 of 20 , Sep 3, 2003
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                        Yes a clone is a good description of what I meant Chris, I understand why
                        the map does what it does now, but would like an option to generate such a
                        clone from an exisitng map but zoomed in to the level required

                        Kim.

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Chris Marriott" <chris@...>
                        To: <skymap@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 8:59 AM
                        Subject: Re: [skymap] Zooming in


                        Quoting Kim Gowney <kapeji@...>:

                        > Sorry to harp back to this again, but all I see the new window retaining
                        as
                        > far as settings go is the level settings, which any new window would have
                        > anyway, or is something not working as it should for me here? If I select
                        a
                        > new window by dragging out a zoomed area, any rotation is lost and the
                        > catalogues are switched on according to their current level settings, what
                        I
                        > would like is for the new window to keep all the settings as is, any
                        > catalogues that were temporarily switched off for the original window
                        should
                        > remain off for the new one and the rotation should remain as well,
                        currently
                        > I am not seeing that.
                        > Is that a do-able request?
                        >

                        Giving this more thought, Kim, what I believe you're asking for is a
                        facility
                        to create a "clone" of the current map, rather than the existing facility to
                        zoom in and create a new map as a result of the zoom operation.

                        The reason things like catalogs get reset in the current operation is
                        because
                        it _is_ a zoom operation.

                        This will need to go on the "to do" list; it's something which I don't
                        recall
                        anyone asking for previously.

                        Regards,

                        Chris


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                        skymap-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                      • Glen Knight
                        Chris, I would also like to see this clone feature added. I use the dragging-zoom option a great deal and it has always been a frustration of mine that the
                        Message 11 of 20 , Sep 3, 2003
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                          Chris,

                          I would also like to see this "clone" feature added. I use the
                          dragging-zoom option a great deal and it has always been a frustration
                          of mine that the settings and orientation are not preserved.

                          BTW - I have very few frustrations with this product. SMP is great and
                          has significantly enhanced my observing sessions. In has been
                          especially beneficial at public star parties. Keep up the great work!

                          - Glen -

                          Carpe Noctum



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Chris Marriott [mailto:chris@...]
                          Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 1:59 AM
                          To: skymap@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [skymap] Zooming in


                          Quoting Kim Gowney <kapeji@...>:

                          > Sorry to harp back to this again, but all I see the new window
                          > retaining as far as settings go is the level settings, which any new
                          > window would have anyway, or is something not working as it should for

                          > me here? If I select a new window by dragging out a zoomed area, any
                          > rotation is lost and the catalogues are switched on according to their

                          > current level settings, what I would like is for the new window to
                          > keep all the settings as is, any catalogues that were temporarily
                          > switched off for the original window should remain off for the new one

                          > and the rotation should remain as well, currently I am not seeing
                          > that. Is that a do-able request?
                          >

                          Giving this more thought, Kim, what I believe you're asking for is a
                          facility
                          to create a "clone" of the current map, rather than the existing
                          facility to
                          zoom in and create a new map as a result of the zoom operation.

                          The reason things like catalogs get reset in the current operation is
                          because
                          it _is_ a zoom operation.

                          This will need to go on the "to do" list; it's something which I don't
                          recall
                          anyone asking for previously.

                          Regards,

                          Chris


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                          skymap-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                        • Michael McCulloch
                          ... Chris, I understand your philosophy on this issue, but I have issues with the implementation. I would much prefer if SkyMap would simply save the state of
                          Message 12 of 20 , Sep 5, 2003
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                            --- In skymap@yahoogroups.com, Chris Marriott <chris@c...> wrote:

                            > The fact that SkyMap switches things on or off as the field of view changes is
                            > one of the fundamental "strengths" of the program; it means that once you have
                            > things set up as you want them, you don't then have to switch 50 things on or
                            > off manually when you zoom in or out. I have no intention of changing this!

                            Chris,

                            I understand your philosophy on this issue, but I have issues with the implementation.

                            I would much prefer if SkyMap would simply save the state of the dialogs on a per level basis. For example, if I am working in Level 4 and I go to switch on the compass display, then have Level 4 remember the fact that I turned on the compass.

                            The same would apply to catalogs or other manually adjustable items. The interface doesn't necessarily have to be changed -- this "save per level" could be added alongside the present level configuration methods.

                            My biggest frustration is that certain settings seemingly can't be remembered by SkyMap between sesssions (or even between views for that matter) and auto-revert to some default setting. I've tried setting the levels on my catalogs, compass, etc. only to find that after I do "Save Defaults" it still reverts back to something else. Perhaps I'm not doing it right, but I don't ever seem to be able to remember how to do it right and I use the app all the time. ;-)

                            As a workaround, currently I often set things manually and then save the view to a file. Many manual settings are saved/restored from a file that aren't restored in the global interface. (On a related note, can you add the ability for SkyMap to open .smp files directly from the Explorer with a double-click, i.e. file association?)

                            All in all SkyMap is a great tool -- but the preferences saving code could really stand some work IMO to reduce the "fiddle factor". To state it simply again: I would much prefer if SkyMap would save manual settings in dialogs on a per level basis (as an additional override to the level range) as they are adjusted. You could indicate a manual override is in effect by adding an appropriate icon to a new leftmost column of a given dialog.

                            ---
                            Michael McCulloch
                          • Andy Zangle
                            Chris said, ... facility ... to ... because ... recall ... Chris, This is an excellent way to address this issue. I would use it. While I m in the writing mood
                            Message 13 of 20 , Sep 5, 2003
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                              Chris said,

                              > Giving this more thought, Kim, what I believe you're asking for is a
                              facility
                              > to create a "clone" of the current map, rather than the existing facility
                              to
                              > zoom in and create a new map as a result of the zoom operation.
                              >
                              > The reason things like catalogs get reset in the current operation is
                              because
                              > it _is_ a zoom operation.
                              >
                              > This will need to go on the "to do" list; it's something which I don't
                              recall
                              > anyone asking for previously.

                              Chris,
                              This is an excellent way to address this issue. I would use it.

                              While I'm in the writing mood (I mostly lurk), I'd like to restate a request
                              for more control over the printed footers.
                              I'd like to see a "word -like" facility where the user can decide what
                              information to place on the footer of the map.
                              Most often I write down the limiting magnitudes, and a map title, and I'm
                              usually not that interested in the date and time information.

                              Great program and more importantly great support - keep it up.


                              Thanks,
                              Andy
                            • Michael McCulloch
                              ... Well, this does seem to work on XP. For some reason, it didn t work on my Win98 laptop this past weekend. I ll investigate. Also, on my XP system, this
                              Message 14 of 20 , Sep 5, 2003
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                                I wrote:

                                > On a related note, can you add the ability for SkyMap
                                > to open .smp files directly from the Explorer ...

                                Well, this does seem to work on XP. For some reason, it didn't work on my Win98 laptop this past weekend. I'll investigate.

                                Also, on my XP system, this causes a separate SkyMap instance to open instead of using one that is already executing.

                                ---
                                Michael McCulloch
                              • Michael McCulloch
                                ... Well, my comments received no response which I shall interpret as a no . ;-) After revisiting the issue and refreshing myself again on how SkyMap handles
                                Message 15 of 20 , Sep 9, 2003
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                                  I wrote:

                                  > To state it simply again: I would much prefer if SkyMap would
                                  > save manual settings in dialogs on a per level basis (as an
                                  > additional override to the level range) as they are adjusted.

                                  Well, my comments received no response which I shall interpret as a "no". ;-)

                                  After revisiting the issue and refreshing myself again on how SkyMap handles the level edits, I will retract my above comment. However, I will assert instead that SkyMap should be more consistent in how the settings are saved.

                                  For example, if I go to File | Preferences it seems that most, if not all, of the settings are saved on dialog exit. However, if I select the "Edit..." button in various other dialogs (such as Catalogs), the settings are not saved between sessions unless I do the global "Save Defaults" thing. And the settings are apparently not saved at all for 3rd party catalogs such as the Milky Way?

                                  I would be pleased if SkyMap would just save the adjustments I make with "Edit..." dialogs when I exit the dialog -- no further action required -- since it is not obvious to me when the "Save Defaults" is needed or not. This hidden factor has been a continuing source of frustration IMO.

                                  Thanks,
                                  Michael McCulloch
                                • Chris Marriott
                                  ... From: Michael McCulloch To: Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 5:07 PM Subject: [skymap] Re: Zooming in
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Sep 9, 2003
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                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Michael McCulloch" <gamesforone@...>
                                    To: <skymap@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 5:07 PM
                                    Subject: [skymap] Re: Zooming in


                                    >
                                    > After revisiting the issue and refreshing myself again on how SkyMap
                                    handles the level edits, I will retract my above comment. However, I will
                                    assert instead that SkyMap should be more consistent in how the settings are
                                    saved.
                                    >
                                    > For example, if I go to File | Preferences it seems that most, if not all,
                                    of the settings are saved on dialog exit. However, if I select the "Edit..."
                                    button in various other dialogs (such as Catalogs), the settings are not
                                    saved between sessions unless I do the global "Save Defaults" thing. And the
                                    settings are apparently not saved at all for 3rd party catalogs such as the
                                    Milky Way?
                                    >
                                    > I would be pleased if SkyMap would just save the adjustments I make with
                                    "Edit..." dialogs when I exit the dialog -- no further action required --
                                    since it is not obvious to me when the "Save Defaults" is needed or not.
                                    This hidden factor has been a continuing source of frustration IMO.
                                    >

                                    The "rules" are:

                                    1. Everything you change under "File/Preferences" gets saved automatically.
                                    2. Everything else only gets saved if you do a "File/Save Defaults".

                                    The justification for this is that if, for example, you were to temporarily
                                    change your viewing location from England to Australia to see what the sky
                                    looks like there, it doesn't necessarily mean that you want that to be a
                                    permanent change. I think (and you may disagree, of course, and you've
                                    welcome to do so) that it would be a real pain if, when you made a change,
                                    you had to remember to "undo" it in order not to change the program's
                                    permanent configuration!

                                    The idea is that, once you've got things set up the way you want them, you
                                    really shouldn't need to be constantly changing them.

                                    Regards,

                                    Chris
                                  • Michael McCulloch
                                    ... Thanks for the reply. I can see location as one exception, and one that could well be handled with a more specific Save Location instead of Save
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Sep 9, 2003
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                                      --- In skymap@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Marriott" <chris@c...> wrote:

                                      > The justification for this is that if, for example, you were to temporarily
                                      > change your viewing location from England to Australia to see what the sky
                                      > looks like there, it doesn't necessarily mean that you want that to be a
                                      > permanent change.

                                      Thanks for the reply. I can see location as one exception, and one that could well be handled with a more specific "Save Location" instead of "Save Defaults".

                                      Other than location, I have a hard time conceiving why things I specify with the Edit function in other dialogs would not be autosaved -- especially since you have the checkboxes that are non-saved overrides. Perhaps you have a history of customer requests that justify the current setup.

                                      ---
                                      Michael McCulloch
                                    • skyupdate
                                      ... Please add my vote for this too. There are not very many frustrating things with the operation of SkyMap, but this one would have to rate numero uno with
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Sep 9, 2003
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                                        --- In skymap@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Knight" <glen@g...> wrote:
                                        > Chris,
                                        >
                                        > I would also like to see this "clone" feature added. I use the
                                        > dragging-zoom option a great deal and it has always been a frustration
                                        > of mine that the settings and orientation are not preserved.
                                        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                                        Please add my vote for this too. There are not very many frustrating
                                        things with the operation of SkyMap, but this one would have to rate
                                        numero uno with me, and also with some of my colleagues who have
                                        dabbled as well.

                                        Cheers
                                        Rob
                                      • Siemerink, Ben J H (Bernardus)
                                        Hello Michael, Personally I believe it will become extremely confusing if SMP would save any settings per level automatically. Take for instance the compass
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Sep 9, 2003
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                                          Hello Michael,


                                          Personally I believe it will become extremely confusing if SMP would save
                                          any settings per level automatically. Take for instance the compass that you
                                          mentioned: I happen to be in level 6 and turn on the compass. I zoom in and
                                          the compass disappears, I zoom back to level 5 is reappears and back to 4
                                          and it disappears again. This is just the compass, but what about all the
                                          catalogues, constellation figures, comet, asteroid, star, DSO, etc settings.
                                          At the end it will be very confusing. I am quite sure that this won't help.

                                          What I found confusing when I started using SMP is the two different ways
                                          settings are stored: One is via the File>Preferences menu and the Other is
                                          using the Save Defaults option. I tend to see the Save Defaults as some sort
                                          of short-cut, but it's not really that.


                                          Hope this helps.


                                          Saludos, Ben.
                                          --
                                          Ben Siemerink (Madrid, Spain)

                                          Any opinions expressed in this message
                                          are not necessarily those of the company.
                                        • Chris Marriott
                                          ... OK - noted! Chris
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Sep 10, 2003
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                                            Quoting skyupdate <skyupdate@...>:

                                            > --- In skymap@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Knight" <glen@g...> wrote:
                                            > > Chris,
                                            > >
                                            > > I would also like to see this "clone" feature added. I use the
                                            > > dragging-zoom option a great deal and it has always been a frustration
                                            > > of mine that the settings and orientation are not preserved.
                                            > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
                                            >
                                            > Please add my vote for this too. There are not very many frustrating
                                            > things with the operation of SkyMap, but this one would have to rate
                                            > numero uno with me, and also with some of my colleagues who have
                                            > dabbled as well.
                                            >

                                            OK - noted!

                                            Chris
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