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  • Eric Krieg
    Dear readers, There is plenty of reason to be skeptical of many claims by Psychiatry (after all, the support for the efficacy of psychotherapy is not too
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 9, 1998
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      Dear readers,

      There is plenty of reason to be skeptical of many claims by
      Psychiatry (after all, the support for the efficacy of psychotherapy
      is not too good). But, there are a number of people going past
      questioning psychiatry to saying "there's no such thing as mental
      illness". I thought the following brief response was noteworthy:

      Subject:
      [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: Dr. Thomas Szasz]]]
      Date:
      Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:44:43 -0500
      From:
      Steven Novella <CTSkeptic@...>
      To:
      "INTERNET:daherman@..." <daherman@...>,
      James Randi <randi@...>



      David,

      I must reject your entire argument because it is based completely on a
      false premise - that the mind is not an organ, or somehow does not exist,
      and therefore cannot be sick.

      The brain is special among organs in that is has a program, or software -
      what is called the mind or personality. The mind is a manifestation of two
      things - the brain and the information put into the brain, in other words,
      the life experiences of each person. Because no other organ has such
      software, your analogy to other organs is a misanalogy.

      If the brain is physically not working well, this may manifest in two
      conceptually broad ways - neurological or psychiatric. A malfunctioning
      brain may cause hemiplegia, weakness on one half of the body, in which case
      a neurologist will diagnose and manage the illness. A malfunctioning brain
      may also manifest as hallucinations, depression, delusion, paranoi, or
      panic attacks. In these cases a psychiatrist will diagnose and manage the
      patient, and appropriately so. In some cases a malfunctioning brain may
      cause dementia, which is in the overlap between neurology and psychiatry,
      and either may diagnose and manage the patient.

      Sometimes, however, the brain physicially is working well, but the
      information put into the brain is harmful or unhealthy and leads to
      unhealthy thinking and/or behavior. For example, a perfectly healthy 20
      year old man may have an extreme experience in combat and develop
      post-traumatic stress disorder. There is nothing wrong with his brain, yet
      he is very disturbed and unhappy because he is depressed and is having
      flash backs to his time on the front lines. This is a purely psychiatric
      condition with no underlying organic cause. The quality of that person's
      life can be dramatically improved with psychiatric treatment. There is
      absolutely nothing compassionate about denying the reality of that person's
      illness, or denying him treatment because of a faulty and misguided
      premise.

      In most cases, human behavior is very complex and is a combination of both
      organic and psychological factors, and both must be addressed to maximize
      the benefit to the patient, which is measured in the ability to function
      independently in society and lead a happy productive life. This is
      obviously a continuum, with no objective line separating health and
      disease, but this does not alter the fact that there are many people who
      wish to be closer to the happy and productive end of the spectrum. There
      are also those who are so far to the non-functioning end, that they are
      clearly recognizable as having a serious problem which deserves recognition
      and intervention.

      If you are interested in the truth, as I, and skeptics in general, are,
      then I urge you to carefully reconsider your premise and the criticisms I
      have enumerated here. Nothing else you have to say has any meaning unless
      you alter your premise, or can provide a convincing argument that your
      premise is correct. If you attempt the latter you must address the points
      I raised here in a fair and logical manner. You should also recognize that
      my criticisms of your premise are generally accepted by the relevent
      scientific community, and with good reason. I do not accept casual
      dismissal of pervasive scientific opinion, because such opinion is usually
      based upon many years of evidence, debate and peer review. I do not accept
      the hubris that one man has the vision to see what thousands of trained and
      careful professionals cannot see, without copious evidence and rigorous
      logic. So far all your arguments fail due to faulty logic and, in places,
      mistatement of fact.

      Sincerely,

      Steven Novella, MD


      --

      I close with a post from Randi:


      sincerely,

      Eric Krieg eric@... fax (215) 654-0651
      http://www.phact.org/e/skeptic
      ==============

      Subject:
      Upcoming test
      Date:
      Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:40:03 -0500 (EST)
      From:
      James Randi --- Wizard <JREFInfo@...>
      To:
      broadcast-JREFInfo@...




      (This will be a long posting. I'm doing it as a
      going-on-the-record-in-advance move. You may wish to skip it.)

      This posting is being made early on the morning of Monday, November
      9th, 1998. I am in Los Angeles, California, where in less than three
      hours I will be meeting a video crew from the TV show "Extra" to
      conduct a preliminary test of a Kam Yuen, who claims to be a healer.
      Should Mr. Yuen pass this test, he will be eligible to be tested for
      the million-dollar prize offered by JREF.

      Mr. Yuen, in common with most persons who believe they have such a
      magical power, says that he is 100% successful, and heals all
      ailments, instantaneously, merely by thinking about them. In several
      phone conversations with Mr. Yuen during the past few months, I have
      had him reduce his claim to one of simpler and more reasonable
      proportions. He now agrees that he can think about a specific person
      with an illness, and immediately make them "feel better." That is a
      bite-sized claim that we can handle and test in a practical manner.

      I can be accused of shooting fish in a barrel, here, but please
      understand that the commitment made by myself and the JREF regarding
      the million-dollar challenge, requires that we test ALL claimants,
      without exception -- when they present a testable set of statements.
      Rule 5 of the challenge calls for the claimant to be subject to a
      possible preliminary test, in order to get around the need for
      EVERYONE to be formally tested by me, wherever in the world they may
      be. For this present preliminary test, the TV producer is paying the
      costs.

      Involvement of a TV crew, with their urgent needs for certain
      liberties in covering the event, can be an interfering factor. I am
      determined that this will not be allowed to happen, but there
      doubtless will be friction during the taping today. For that reason,
      and since the testing protocol is not by any means ideal, this test
      today has been clearly designated as only a preliminary one.

      I anticipate that upon failing the test today, Yuen will offer all
      sorts of excuses, despite having agreed to the protocol in advance.
      That's what always happens. I also can predict with certainty that in
      advance of the actual test, he will offer the TV crew, the other
      personnel, and anyone else standing by, diagnoses of ailments they
      have, most obscure and not yet showing symptoms, and he will describe
      nutritional and environmental changes we should make to avoid these
      illnesses. This is a sort of general offering all healers make and
      will later refer to as a buffer against the failure of the test
      itself.

      Chest problems, back aches, respiratory situations, and other common
      symptoms will be referred to frequently, even while Yuen is doing the
      actual test, in reference to the subjects (see ahead) involved. He
      will say that he has discovered, through his powers, un-diagnosed
      problems he will warn about. As I will point out at that time, these
      "asides" have nothing to do with the test at hand -- though I'm sure
      the TV folks will seize upon them as residual evidence of a miracle,
      which they very much want to find here. The TV piece, as aired, will
      close with the comment that says, in effect, "There's still some
      evidence of magic here." That's par for that course.

      Dr. Michael Shermer will be present, along with a Dr. Fleissman, M.D.,
      obtained by Kam Yuen to participate in this test. I had previously
      asked for Dr. Wally Sampson, M.D., to be present, but Yuen objected to
      so many M.D.s being on the scene. I had no problem going along with
      this.

      Here follows the latest document sent to Richard Pollmann, the agent hired
      by Kam Yuen to promote his claims, and to Karen Zuker of the EXTRA show.

      .........................................

      Friday, November 6, 1998

      Mr. Pollmann:
      Outlined here is the protocol for the preliminary Yuen test. A
      copy has been sent to Dr. Shermer.
      Kam Yuen says he can heal a person (relieve symptoms) by
      concentrating on them. Yuen must agree in advance that:

      (1) He will not claim that "negative vibes" or "bad thoughts" caused the
      test to fail.
      (2) He is satisfied with the persons we have chosen as subjects, and our
      personnel.
      (3) The filming of the event will not inhibit results.
      (4) He agrees that his powers will not "spill over" onto other persons he
      is not treating.
      (5) He agrees that this is a preliminary test, described by rule 5 of the
      "Application for Status of Claimant," and that my presence at this test is
      only to satisfy the request of the TV persons.
      (6) He will read and sign the "Application for Status of Claimant," on
      camera, this personal witnessing being equivalent to the action of a notary
      public, normally called for.
      (7) He understands the rules and will abide by them.

      We will have 5 subjects (with one or two "stand-bys," see ahead),
      held remote from the "healer," subjects who have NOT been informed about
      the nature of the experiment. They will bear visible number-badges, 1 to
      5.
      Dr. Fleissman will be in the area with the patients, along with
      Shermer, and these two will interview the patients about their symptoms.
      >From this point on, Dr. Fleissman will have no contact with Yuen.
      Yuen will then randomly choose a counter (1-5) from a bag, note the
      number but not tell anyone what number it is, then seal that counter in an
      envelope and leave it with the other 4 -- also unrevealed -- counters. He
      will thus be the only one who knows which one has been selected. He will
      then do his thing on that person, remotely, without allowing that person to
      know that he/she has been singled out.
      When he's finished, Fleissman and Shermer will interview all five
      -- again -- to determine if there has been any significant change in
      symptoms. They will record their reports in writing.
      It will be decided by Fleissman & Shermer whether one patient has
      shown significant changes. (This must be at the exclusion of the other
      four showing equal improvement!) The chosen number will then be revealed.
      If Yuen is successful on this trial (a 20% chance that he will be),
      we will replace the chosen person with another subject (from the
      stand-bys), who will be given the same number. All counters will be
      replaced in the bag, and we will repeat the test.
      Yuen must succeed in 5 such successive tests. If he does this, he
      automatically becomes eligible for the million-dollar prize, and for a much
      more formal test under stricter conditions. Since he claims 100% success
      in these endeavors, should he fail on the first test, the preliminary test
      is automatically over. No excuses made after-the-fact will be accepted.
      We may, however, allow ONE MORE test to be conducted, if Yuen so desires.

      Signed, James Randi.

      ........................................

      I will report here later today, or tomorrow, the results of this test.
      As with all these tests, I go into this one with the same
      uncomfortable feeling: I don't want to make any sincere person look
      ridiculous. I have no reason to believe that Kam Yuen does not
      believe he has this power. His method of "healing" is to apply very
      old notions of Asiatic mysticism to the patient, and to encourage the
      patient to agree that he/she feels better as a result of Yuen's
      efforts. What we are doing today is a double-blind test which should
      provide evidence -- to Yuen as well as others -- that his power is
      imaginary. But it will not. The belief will persist, particularly on
      the part of Yuen himself. Self-delusion is a very strong element in
      human nature.

      Of course, it may be that Kam Yuen will go through a series of tests
      today and be successful in every one of them. In that case, we might
      very well have discovered a new modus of healing that we cannot ignore
      -- and the Pigasus Prize may be on its way to being paid out. I'm
      willing to be shown.

      (There is an obvious hole in the protocol, of the sort that I would
      not allow in a strict test of these powers. But for a prelimary test
      such as this one, controls are tight enough because I believe the
      persons involved are honest and forthright.)

      We'll see what we will see....

      James Randi

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