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PC Problems

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  • the65thsquare
    Hi All, I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the right direction. Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
    Message 1 of 24 , May 15, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi All,
      I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the right direction.

      Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
      Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown

      Since Then,
      1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work, Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
      2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
      3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty

      *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video windows)
      *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but still crashes

      I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?

      Thanks for your comments.
      :)
    • Bill Kirchmeyer
      Please sign your posts! It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard or
      Message 2 of 24 , May 15, 2013
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        Please sign your posts!

        It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the power requirements than running a graphics card.

        Bill Kirchmeyer
        Chicago Champaign & Southern
        Rockford, Illinois
        http://www.rockrail.org

        From: the65thsquare
        Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
        To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems


        Hi All,
        I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the right direction.

        Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
        Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown

        Since Then,
        1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work, Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
        2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
        3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty

        *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video windows)
        *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but still crashes

        I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?

        Thanks for your comments.
        :)





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • the65thsquare
        Hi Bill! Thank you for your quick reply and opinion. Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power supply? Appreciate all the help. It
        Message 3 of 24 , May 15, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Bill!

          Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.

          Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power supply?

          Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated drivers too.

          Cheers,
          Jon

          --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer" <CCS-Trainmaster@...> wrote:
          >
          > Please sign your posts!
          >
          > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the power requirements than running a graphics card.
          >
          > Bill Kirchmeyer
          > Chicago Champaign & Southern
          > Rockford, Illinois
          > http://www.rockrail.org
          >
          > From: the65thsquare
          > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
          > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
          >
          >
          > Hi All,
          > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the right direction.
          >
          > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
          > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
          >
          > Since Then,
          > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work, Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
          > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
          > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
          >
          > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video windows)
          > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but still crashes
          >
          > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
          >
          > Thanks for your comments.
          > :)
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • mgandtherays
          Hey Jon: Before swapping out PSU... I would try swapping around installed RAM. What I ve learned from some of the guru s here is that RAM testing )MemTest86;
          Message 4 of 24 , May 15, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Hey Jon:
            Before swapping out PSU... I would try swapping around installed RAM. What I've learned from some of the guru's here is that RAM testing )MemTest86; MSFT's W's RAM DXD Tool) is not so reliable.
            How is onboard-integrated video quality with just one stick only in slot #1. Then instead of two sticks in # 1 and 3, try one each in slots #1 and 2. My exp w/ my mobo/bios is that I had to 'teach' it to go into dual-channel, then populated 3 & 4. See if that gives you a performance boost/stability.
            mike in fla

            --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Bill!
            >
            > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
            >
            > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power supply?
            >
            > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated drivers too.
            >
            > Cheers,
            > Jon
            >
            > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer" <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Please sign your posts!
            > >
            > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the power requirements than running a graphics card.
            > >
            > > Bill Kirchmeyer
            > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
            > > Rockford, Illinois
            > > http://www.rockrail.org
            > >
            > > From: the65thsquare
            > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
            > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi All,
            > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the right direction.
            > >
            > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
            > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
            > >
            > > Since Then,
            > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work, Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
            > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
            > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
            > >
            > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video windows)
            > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but still crashes
            > >
            > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
            > >
            > > Thanks for your comments.
            > > :)
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
          • RogerX19
            I concur with Bill. It may not be the power supply in the end, but at least, after you replace it, you will have a known good one, and can troubleshoot from
            Message 5 of 24 , May 15, 2013
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              I concur with Bill.

              It may not be the power supply in the end, but at least, after you replace it, you will have a known good one, and can troubleshoot from there.

              I'm not sure why you need to run 4-6 VLC windows at once, but if you need to, then you should invest the extra money in a quality power supply, maybe one from PC Power and Cooling?

              PC Perspective (www.pcper.com) is always reporting on the latest and greatest hardware for power users like yourself.

              On the other hand, if you normally only run only one VLC window at a time, and just run 4-6 windows as a stress test, I would say you can save yourself a chunk of money by just not doing that!

              Any computer will fail if you over stress it. That may be 6 VLC windows on one and 12 VLC windows on another, as example, but so what?

              If the computer runs well under normal conditions, then save your money.

              rogerX

              --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Bill!
              >
              > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
              >
              > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power supply?
              >
              > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated drivers too.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Jon
              >
              > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer" <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Please sign your posts!
              > >
              > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the power requirements than running a graphics card.
              > >
              > > Bill Kirchmeyer
              > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
              > > Rockford, Illinois
              > > http://www.rockrail.org
              > >
              > > From: the65thsquare
              > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
              > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi All,
              > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the right direction.
              > >
              > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
              > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
              > >
              > > Since Then,
              > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work, Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
              > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
              > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
              > >
              > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video windows)
              > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but still crashes
              > >
              > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
              > >
              > > Thanks for your comments.
              > > :)
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • Bill Aycock
              Even though this is a desktop, it could be overheating. How long since it got a good lint removal? On the other hand, you have an added video card, and they
              Message 6 of 24 , May 15, 2013
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                Even though this is a desktop, it could be overheating. How long since it
                got a good lint removal?
                On the other hand, you have an added video card, and they stress power
                capability. What is the rating of the Power supply? Did the information on
                the Video card specify a minimum power supply?
                Good luck--Bill--W4BSG

                -----Original Message-----
                From: the65thsquare
                Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems

                Hi All,
                I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the right
                direction.

                Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
                Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown

                Since Then,
                1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work, Reinstalled XP
                SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty

                *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video
                windows)
                *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but still
                crashes

                I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I can
                think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any ideas? Anyone hit
                something similar before?

                Thanks for your comments.
                :)



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              • Vincent Winterling
                Is the machine overheating? I can t remember if this is a new build or an older system. If an older system I would pull the cpu and heat sink fan apart, verify
                Message 7 of 24 , May 15, 2013
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                  Is the machine overheating?

                  I can't remember if this is a new build or an older system. If an older
                  system I would pull the cpu and heat sink fan apart, verify it's clean and
                  give it some fresh thermal paste.

                  Even though the ram checked out, have you swapped it around (assuming more
                  than one or more sticks) and tried running the machine on one stick alone?

                  As others have suggested, making sure your power supply is up to the task is
                  needed. Again, if it's old it might be worth upgrading. I just bought a good
                  one my daughter's desktop for about $35 at NewEgg.

                  Vincent Winterling
                  Vineland, NJ

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of the65thsquare
                  Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 7:54 AM
                  To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Simply Computers] PC Problems

                  Hi Bill!

                  Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.

                  Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power supply?

                  Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of elimination
                  during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated drivers too.

                  Cheers,
                  Jon

                  --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                  <CCS-Trainmaster@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Please sign your posts!
                  >
                  > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more common
                  for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard or graphics
                  card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the power requirements
                  than running a graphics card.
                  >
                  > Bill Kirchmeyer
                  > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                  > Rockford, Illinois
                  > http://www.rockrail.org
                  >
                  > From: the65thsquare
                  > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                  > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi All,
                  > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the right
                  direction.
                  >
                  > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
                  > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                  >
                  > Since Then,
                  > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work, Reinstalled XP
                  SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                  > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                  > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                  >
                  > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video
                  windows)
                  > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but still
                  crashes
                  >
                  > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I can
                  think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any ideas? Anyone hit
                  something similar before?
                  >
                  > Thanks for your comments.
                  > :)
                • the65thsquare
                  Thanks Mike, appreciate it. Giving my old memory another try. Jon
                  Message 8 of 24 , May 15, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks Mike,

                    appreciate it. Giving my old memory another try.

                    Jon

                    --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "mgandtherays" <mgwiz@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hey Jon:
                    > Before swapping out PSU... I would try swapping around installed RAM. What I've learned from some of the guru's here is that RAM testing )MemTest86; MSFT's W's RAM DXD Tool) is not so reliable.
                    > How is onboard-integrated video quality with just one stick only in slot #1. Then instead of two sticks in # 1 and 3, try one each in slots #1 and 2. My exp w/ my mobo/bios is that I had to 'teach' it to go into dual-channel, then populated 3 & 4. See if that gives you a performance boost/stability.
                    > mike in fla
                    >
                    > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi Bill!
                    > >
                    > > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                    > >
                    > > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power supply?
                    > >
                    > > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated drivers too.
                    > >
                    > > Cheers,
                    > > Jon
                    > >
                    > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer" <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Please sign your posts!
                    > > >
                    > > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the power requirements than running a graphics card.
                    > > >
                    > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                    > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                    > > > Rockford, Illinois
                    > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                    > > >
                    > > > From: the65thsquare
                    > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                    > > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi All,
                    > > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the right direction.
                    > > >
                    > > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
                    > > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                    > > >
                    > > > Since Then,
                    > > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work, Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                    > > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                    > > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                    > > >
                    > > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video windows)
                    > > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but still crashes
                    > > >
                    > > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks for your comments.
                    > > > :)
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • the65thsquare
                    Thanks Roger, Yes it was a stress test. I have to lose this habit of watching multiple things and leaving them on to continue later. Anyway, the system still
                    Message 9 of 24 , May 15, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks Roger,

                      Yes it was a stress test. I have to lose this habit of watching multiple things and leaving them on to continue later.

                      Anyway, the system still seems to crash when VLCs run in the digital monitor, and less so in the CRT monitor.

                      I think the previous suggestion in another message of trying the memory may not work in this situation, so I am back to working with known memory only.

                      WhoCrashed keeps blaming an nvidia dll that worked fine before this. The updated dll didn't work either (it is not in this latest setup yet), but may be an option for later.

                      Thanks for the input,
                      Jon

                      --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "RogerX19" <helpmeroger@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I concur with Bill.
                      >
                      > It may not be the power supply in the end, but at least, after you replace it, you will have a known good one, and can troubleshoot from there.
                      >
                      > I'm not sure why you need to run 4-6 VLC windows at once, but if you need to, then you should invest the extra money in a quality power supply, maybe one from PC Power and Cooling?
                      >
                      > PC Perspective (www.pcper.com) is always reporting on the latest and greatest hardware for power users like yourself.
                      >
                      > On the other hand, if you normally only run only one VLC window at a time, and just run 4-6 windows as a stress test, I would say you can save yourself a chunk of money by just not doing that!
                      >
                      > Any computer will fail if you over stress it. That may be 6 VLC windows on one and 12 VLC windows on another, as example, but so what?
                      >
                      > If the computer runs well under normal conditions, then save your money.
                      >
                      > rogerX
                      >
                      > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Bill!
                      > >
                      > > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                      > >
                      > > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power supply?
                      > >
                      > > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated drivers too.
                      > >
                      > > Cheers,
                      > > Jon
                      > >
                      > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer" <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Please sign your posts!
                      > > >
                      > > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the power requirements than running a graphics card.
                      > > >
                      > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                      > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                      > > > Rockford, Illinois
                      > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                      > > >
                      > > > From: the65thsquare
                      > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                      > > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Hi All,
                      > > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the right direction.
                      > > >
                      > > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
                      > > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                      > > >
                      > > > Since Then,
                      > > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work, Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                      > > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                      > > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                      > > >
                      > > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video windows)
                      > > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but still crashes
                      > > >
                      > > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks for your comments.
                      > > > :)
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • the65thsquare
                      Hi Vincent and Bill, You both said overheating, and it is possible. I did clean off all the dust inside already but have not gotten around to pulling apart the
                      Message 10 of 24 , May 15, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Vincent and Bill,

                        You both said overheating, and it is possible. I did clean off all the dust inside already but have not gotten around to pulling apart the processor-fan setup inside.

                        I remember BIOS said the processor temp was around 50C. Is that cause for concern.

                        Jon

                        --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, Vincent Winterling <vincewinterling@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Is the machine overheating?
                        >
                        > I can't remember if this is a new build or an older system. If an older
                        > system I would pull the cpu and heat sink fan apart, verify it's clean and
                        > give it some fresh thermal paste.
                        >
                        > Even though the ram checked out, have you swapped it around (assuming more
                        > than one or more sticks) and tried running the machine on one stick alone?
                        >
                        > As others have suggested, making sure your power supply is up to the task is
                        > needed. Again, if it's old it might be worth upgrading. I just bought a good
                        > one my daughter's desktop for about $35 at NewEgg.
                        >
                        > Vincent Winterling
                        > Vineland, NJ
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of the65thsquare
                        > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 7:54 AM
                        > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                        >
                        > Hi Bill!
                        >
                        > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                        >
                        > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power supply?
                        >
                        > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of elimination
                        > during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated drivers too.
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        > Jon
                        >
                        > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                        > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Please sign your posts!
                        > >
                        > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more common
                        > for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard or graphics
                        > card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the power requirements
                        > than running a graphics card.
                        > >
                        > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                        > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                        > > Rockford, Illinois
                        > > http://www.rockrail.org
                        > >
                        > > From: the65thsquare
                        > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                        > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Hi All,
                        > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the right
                        > direction.
                        > >
                        > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
                        > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                        > >
                        > > Since Then,
                        > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work, Reinstalled XP
                        > SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                        > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                        > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                        > >
                        > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video
                        > windows)
                        > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but still
                        > crashes
                        > >
                        > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I can
                        > think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any ideas? Anyone hit
                        > something similar before?
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for your comments.
                        > > :)
                        >
                      • the65thsquare
                        PC is still unstable. I m starting to think it is the mobo. Any ideas? New PSU, OK RAM, no SMART warnings from HDD, Fresh Install of OS, Claimed graphic card
                        Message 11 of 24 , May 16, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          PC is still unstable. I'm starting to think it is the mobo. Any ideas?

                          New PSU, OK RAM, no SMART warnings from HDD, Fresh Install of OS, Claimed graphic card warranty.

                          Possible Chip+Fan not sitting properly and overheating, but BIOS says CPU around 50C or so.

                          Jon

                          --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Thanks Mike,
                          >
                          > appreciate it. Giving my old memory another try.
                          >
                          > Jon
                          >
                          > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "mgandtherays" <mgwiz@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hey Jon:
                          > > Before swapping out PSU... I would try swapping around installed RAM. What I've learned from some of the guru's here is that RAM testing )MemTest86; MSFT's W's RAM DXD Tool) is not so reliable.
                          > > How is onboard-integrated video quality with just one stick only in slot #1. Then instead of two sticks in # 1 and 3, try one each in slots #1 and 2. My exp w/ my mobo/bios is that I had to 'teach' it to go into dual-channel, then populated 3 & 4. See if that gives you a performance boost/stability.
                          > > mike in fla
                          > >
                          > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hi Bill!
                          > > >
                          > > > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                          > > >
                          > > > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power supply?
                          > > >
                          > > > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated drivers too.
                          > > >
                          > > > Cheers,
                          > > > Jon
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer" <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Please sign your posts!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the power requirements than running a graphics card.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                          > > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                          > > > > Rockford, Illinois
                          > > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                          > > > >
                          > > > > From: the65thsquare
                          > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                          > > > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Hi All,
                          > > > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the right direction.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
                          > > > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Since Then,
                          > > > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work, Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                          > > > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                          > > > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                          > > > >
                          > > > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video windows)
                          > > > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but still crashes
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Thanks for your comments.
                          > > > > :)
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Vincent Winterling
                          I just checked. I m at 34C on an FX-8350 (this is a new build so everything is relatively fresh). You re a bit high but we don t know your ambient temps either
                          Message 12 of 24 , May 16, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I just checked. I'm at 34C on an FX-8350 (this is a new build so everything
                            is relatively fresh). You're a bit high but we don't know your ambient temps
                            either and / or whether 50C is under stress or is typical. On face value
                            that alone shouldn't cause crashing.

                            Vincent Winterling
                            Vineland, NJ

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of the65thsquare
                            Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 12:40 AM
                            To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [Simply Computers] PC Problems

                            Hi Vincent and Bill,

                            You both said overheating, and it is possible. I did clean off all the dust
                            inside already but have not gotten around to pulling apart the processor-fan
                            setup inside.

                            I remember BIOS said the processor temp was around 50C. Is that cause for
                            concern.

                            Jon

                            --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, Vincent Winterling
                            <vincewinterling@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Is the machine overheating?
                            >
                            > I can't remember if this is a new build or an older system. If an older
                            > system I would pull the cpu and heat sink fan apart, verify it's clean and
                            > give it some fresh thermal paste.
                            >
                            > Even though the ram checked out, have you swapped it around (assuming more
                            > than one or more sticks) and tried running the machine on one stick alone?
                            >
                            > As others have suggested, making sure your power supply is up to the task
                            is
                            > needed. Again, if it's old it might be worth upgrading. I just bought a
                            good
                            > one my daughter's desktop for about $35 at NewEgg.
                            >
                            > Vincent Winterling
                            > Vineland, NJ
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                            > [mailto:simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of the65thsquare
                            > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 7:54 AM
                            > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                            >
                            > Hi Bill!
                            >
                            > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                            >
                            > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power
                            supply?
                            >
                            > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of elimination
                            > during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated drivers too.
                            >
                            > Cheers,
                            > Jon
                            >
                            > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                            > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Please sign your posts!
                            > >
                            > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more common
                            > for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard or graphics
                            > card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the power requirements
                            > than running a graphics card.
                            > >
                            > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                            > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                            > > Rockford, Illinois
                            > > http://www.rockrail.org
                            > >
                            > > From: the65thsquare
                            > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                            > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hi All,
                            > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the right
                            > direction.
                            > >
                            > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
                            > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                            > >
                            > > Since Then,
                            > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work, Reinstalled
                            XP
                            > SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                            > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                            > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                            > >
                            > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video
                            > windows)
                            > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but
                            still
                            > crashes
                            > >
                            > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I can
                            > think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any ideas? Anyone
                            hit
                            > something similar before?
                            > >
                            > > Thanks for your comments.
                            > > :)
                          • Vincent Winterling
                            You re closing in on by process of elimination. I would dissemble the cpu though before you buy a new mobo. You ll be doing it anyway. Vincent Winterling
                            Message 13 of 24 , May 16, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              You're closing in on by process of elimination. I would dissemble the cpu
                              though before you buy a new mobo. You'll be doing it anyway.

                              Vincent Winterling
                              Vineland, NJ

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                              [mailto:simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of the65thsquare
                              Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 3:07 AM
                              To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems

                              PC is still unstable. I'm starting to think it is the mobo. Any ideas?

                              New PSU, OK RAM, no SMART warnings from HDD, Fresh Install of OS, Claimed
                              graphic card warranty.

                              Possible Chip+Fan not sitting properly and overheating, but BIOS says CPU
                              around 50C or so.

                              Jon

                              --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Thanks Mike,
                              >
                              > appreciate it. Giving my old memory another try.
                              >
                              > Jon
                              >
                              > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "mgandtherays" <mgwiz@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hey Jon:
                              > > Before swapping out PSU... I would try swapping around installed RAM.
                              What I've learned from some of the guru's here is that RAM testing
                              )MemTest86; MSFT's W's RAM DXD Tool) is not so reliable.
                              > > How is onboard-integrated video quality with just one stick only in slot
                              #1. Then instead of two sticks in # 1 and 3, try one each in slots #1 and 2.
                              My exp w/ my mobo/bios is that I had to 'teach' it to go into dual-channel,
                              then populated 3 & 4. See if that gives you a performance boost/stability.
                              > > mike in fla
                              > >
                              > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@>
                              wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hi Bill!
                              > > >
                              > > > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                              > > >
                              > > > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power
                              supply?
                              > > >
                              > > > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of
                              elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated drivers
                              too.
                              > > >
                              > > > Cheers,
                              > > > Jon
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                              <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Please sign your posts!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more
                              common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard or
                              graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the power
                              requirements than running a graphics card.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                              > > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                              > > > > Rockford, Illinois
                              > > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                              > > > >
                              > > > > From: the65thsquare
                              > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                              > > > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Hi All,
                              > > > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the
                              right direction.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
                              > > > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Since Then,
                              > > > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work,
                              Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                              > > > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                              > > > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                              > > > >
                              > > > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video
                              windows)
                              > > > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but
                              still crashes
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I
                              can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any ideas? Anyone
                              hit something similar before?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Thanks for your comments.
                              > > > > :)
                            • Bill Aycock
                              Jon-- Just replacing the PS may not be enough; You probably need a higher capacity. Some Video cards specify the PS rating needed (minimum). What Wattage was
                              Message 14 of 24 , May 16, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Jon--
                                Just replacing the PS may not be enough; You probably need a higher
                                capacity.
                                Some Video cards specify the PS rating needed (minimum). What Wattage was
                                the one you took out and what rating was the new one? My Nvidia dual monitor
                                card had a clear warning.
                                50C is a little high. This AMD Phenom, 4 CPU is running 32C right now. It
                                was higher before I "de-linted" it. I don't know the danger level.
                                Bill--W4BSG

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: the65thsquare
                                Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:07 AM
                                To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems

                                PC is still unstable. I'm starting to think it is the mobo. Any ideas?

                                New PSU, OK RAM, no SMART warnings from HDD, Fresh Install of OS, Claimed
                                graphic card warranty.

                                Possible Chip+Fan not sitting properly and overheating, but BIOS says CPU
                                around 50C or so.

                                Jon

                                --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Thanks Mike,
                                >
                                > appreciate it. Giving my old memory another try.
                                >
                                > Jon
                                >
                                > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "mgandtherays" <mgwiz@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hey Jon:
                                > > Before swapping out PSU... I would try swapping around installed RAM.
                                > > What I've learned from some of the guru's here is that RAM
                                > > testing )MemTest86; MSFT's W's RAM DXD Tool) is not so reliable.
                                > > How is onboard-integrated video quality with just one stick only in slot
                                > > #1. Then instead of two sticks in # 1 and 3, try one each in slots #1
                                > > and 2. My exp w/ my mobo/bios is that I had to 'teach' it to go into
                                > > dual-channel, then populated 3 & 4. See if that gives you a performance
                                > > boost/stability.
                                > > mike in fla
                                > >
                                > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Hi Bill!
                                > > >
                                > > > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                                > > >
                                > > > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power
                                > > > supply?
                                > > >
                                > > > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of
                                > > > elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated
                                > > > drivers too.
                                > > >
                                > > > Cheers,
                                > > > Jon
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                                > > > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Please sign your posts!
                                > > > >
                                > > > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more
                                > > > > common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard
                                > > > > or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the
                                > > > > power requirements than running a graphics card.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                > > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                > > > > Rockford, Illinois
                                > > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                                > > > >
                                > > > > From: the65thsquare
                                > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                                > > > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Hi All,
                                > > > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the
                                > > > > right direction.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
                                > > > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Since Then,
                                > > > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work,
                                > > > > Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                                > > > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                                > > > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                                > > > >
                                > > > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video
                                > > > > windows)
                                > > > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but
                                > > > > still crashes
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I
                                > > > > can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any
                                > > > > ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Thanks for your comments.
                                > > > > :)
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >




                                ------------------------------------

                                Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members Simply
                                Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on the
                                Internet.
                                http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2

                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                              • C. Michael Stone
                                The critical temperature of the AMD Phenom X4 is 61C Mike Stone ... From: Bill Aycock To: simplycomputers2
                                Message 15 of 24 , May 16, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  The critical temperature of the AMD Phenom X4 is 61C


                                  Mike Stone




                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Bill Aycock <billaycock@...>
                                  To: simplycomputers2 <simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 8:54 am
                                  Subject: Re: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems






                                  Jon--
                                  Just replacing the PS may not be enough; You probably need a higher
                                  capacity.
                                  Some Video cards specify the PS rating needed (minimum). What Wattage was
                                  the one you took out and what rating was the new one? My Nvidia dual monitor
                                  card had a clear warning.
                                  50C is a little high. This AMD Phenom, 4 CPU is running 32C right now. It
                                  was higher before I "de-linted" it. I don't know the danger level.
                                  Bill--W4BSG

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: the65thsquare
                                  Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:07 AM
                                  To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems

                                  PC is still unstable. I'm starting to think it is the mobo. Any ideas?

                                  New PSU, OK RAM, no SMART warnings from HDD, Fresh Install of OS, Claimed
                                  graphic card warranty.

                                  Possible Chip+Fan not sitting properly and overheating, but BIOS says CPU
                                  around 50C or so.

                                  Jon

                                  --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Thanks Mike,
                                  >
                                  > appreciate it. Giving my old memory another try.
                                  >
                                  > Jon
                                  >
                                  > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "mgandtherays" <mgwiz@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Hey Jon:
                                  > > Before swapping out PSU... I would try swapping around installed RAM.
                                  > > What I've learned from some of the guru's here is that RAM
                                  > > testing )MemTest86; MSFT's W's RAM DXD Tool) is not so reliable.
                                  > > How is onboard-integrated video quality with just one stick only in slot
                                  > > #1. Then instead of two sticks in # 1 and 3, try one each in slots #1
                                  > > and 2. My exp w/ my mobo/bios is that I had to 'teach' it to go into
                                  > > dual-channel, then populated 3 & 4. See if that gives you a performance
                                  > > boost/stability.
                                  > > mike in fla
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Hi Bill!
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power
                                  > > > supply?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of
                                  > > > elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated
                                  > > > drivers too.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Cheers,
                                  > > > Jon
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                                  > > > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Please sign your posts!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more
                                  > > > > common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard
                                  > > > > or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the
                                  > > > > power requirements than running a graphics card.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                  > > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                  > > > > Rockford, Illinois
                                  > > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > From: the65thsquare
                                  > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                                  > > > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hi All,
                                  > > > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the
                                  > > > > right direction.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
                                  > > > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Since Then,
                                  > > > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work,
                                  > > > > Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                                  > > > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                                  > > > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video
                                  > > > > windows)
                                  > > > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but
                                  > > > > still crashes
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I
                                  > > > > can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any
                                  > > > > ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Thanks for your comments.
                                  > > > > :)
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >

                                  ------------------------------------

                                  Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                  100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members Simply
                                  Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on the
                                  Internet.
                                  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2

                                  Yahoo! Groups Links








                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Bill Aycock
                                  Mike-- Thanks very much; I needed that information. ... From: C. Michael Stone Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 11:00 AM To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                  Message 16 of 24 , May 16, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Mike--
                                    Thanks very much; I needed that information.

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: C. Michael Stone
                                    Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 11:00 AM
                                    To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems

                                    The critical temperature of the AMD Phenom X4 is 61C


                                    Mike Stone




                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Bill Aycock <billaycock@...>
                                    To: simplycomputers2 <simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 8:54 am
                                    Subject: Re: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems






                                    Jon--
                                    Just replacing the PS may not be enough; You probably need a higher
                                    capacity.
                                    Some Video cards specify the PS rating needed (minimum). What Wattage was
                                    the one you took out and what rating was the new one? My Nvidia dual monitor
                                    card had a clear warning.
                                    50C is a little high. This AMD Phenom, 4 CPU is running 32C right now. It
                                    was higher before I "de-linted" it. I don't know the danger level.
                                    Bill--W4BSG

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: the65thsquare
                                    Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:07 AM
                                    To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems

                                    PC is still unstable. I'm starting to think it is the mobo. Any ideas?

                                    New PSU, OK RAM, no SMART warnings from HDD, Fresh Install of OS, Claimed
                                    graphic card warranty.

                                    Possible Chip+Fan not sitting properly and overheating, but BIOS says CPU
                                    around 50C or so.

                                    Jon

                                    --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Thanks Mike,
                                    >
                                    > appreciate it. Giving my old memory another try.
                                    >
                                    > Jon
                                    >
                                    > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "mgandtherays" <mgwiz@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Hey Jon:
                                    > > Before swapping out PSU... I would try swapping around installed RAM.
                                    > > What I've learned from some of the guru's here is that RAM
                                    > > testing )MemTest86; MSFT's W's RAM DXD Tool) is not so reliable.
                                    > > How is onboard-integrated video quality with just one stick only in slot
                                    > > #1. Then instead of two sticks in # 1 and 3, try one each in slots #1
                                    > > and 2. My exp w/ my mobo/bios is that I had to 'teach' it to go into
                                    > > dual-channel, then populated 3 & 4. See if that gives you a performance
                                    > > boost/stability.
                                    > > mike in fla
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Hi Bill!
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power
                                    > > > supply?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of
                                    > > > elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated
                                    > > > drivers too.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Cheers,
                                    > > > Jon
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                                    > > > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Please sign your posts!
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more
                                    > > > > common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard
                                    > > > > or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the
                                    > > > > power requirements than running a graphics card.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                    > > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                    > > > > Rockford, Illinois
                                    > > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > From: the65thsquare
                                    > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                                    > > > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Hi All,
                                    > > > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the
                                    > > > > right direction.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
                                    > > > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Since Then,
                                    > > > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work,
                                    > > > > Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                                    > > > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                                    > > > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video
                                    > > > > windows)
                                    > > > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but
                                    > > > > still crashes
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I
                                    > > > > can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any
                                    > > > > ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Thanks for your comments.
                                    > > > > :)
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >

                                    ------------------------------------

                                    Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                    100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members Simply
                                    Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on the
                                    Internet.
                                    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2

                                    Yahoo! Groups Links








                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                    ------------------------------------

                                    Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                    100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members Simply
                                    Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on the
                                    Internet.
                                    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2

                                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  • Bill Kirchmeyer
                                    Hi, Just for informational purposes, the newer Intel processors begin to throttle down at 90c. This reduces power consumption and prevents damage to the
                                    Message 17 of 24 , May 16, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi,

                                      Just for informational purposes, the newer Intel processors begin to throttle down at 90c.
                                      This reduces power consumption and prevents damage to the processor.

                                      Bill Kirchmeyer
                                      Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                      Rockford, Illinois
                                      http://www.rockrail.org

                                      From: Bill Aycock
                                      Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 10:23 AM
                                      To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems


                                      Jon--
                                      Just replacing the PS may not be enough; You probably need a higher
                                      capacity.
                                      Some Video cards specify the PS rating needed (minimum). What Wattage was
                                      the one you took out and what rating was the new one? My Nvidia dual monitor
                                      card had a clear warning.
                                      50C is a little high. This AMD Phenom, 4 CPU is running 32C right now. It
                                      was higher before I "de-linted" it. I don't know the danger level.
                                      Bill--W4BSG

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: the65thsquare
                                      Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:07 AM
                                      To: mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems

                                      PC is still unstable. I'm starting to think it is the mobo. Any ideas?

                                      New PSU, OK RAM, no SMART warnings from HDD, Fresh Install of OS, Claimed
                                      graphic card warranty.

                                      Possible Chip+Fan not sitting properly and overheating, but BIOS says CPU
                                      around 50C or so.

                                      Jon

                                      --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Thanks Mike,
                                      >
                                      > appreciate it. Giving my old memory another try.
                                      >
                                      > Jon
                                      >
                                      > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, "mgandtherays" <mgwiz@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Hey Jon:
                                      > > Before swapping out PSU... I would try swapping around installed RAM.
                                      > > What I've learned from some of the guru's here is that RAM
                                      > > testing )MemTest86; MSFT's W's RAM DXD Tool) is not so reliable.
                                      > > How is onboard-integrated video quality with just one stick only in slot
                                      > > #1. Then instead of two sticks in # 1 and 3, try one each in slots #1
                                      > > and 2. My exp w/ my mobo/bios is that I had to 'teach' it to go into
                                      > > dual-channel, then populated 3 & 4. See if that gives you a performance
                                      > > boost/stability.
                                      > > mike in fla
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Hi Bill!
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power
                                      > > > supply?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of
                                      > > > elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated
                                      > > > drivers too.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Cheers,
                                      > > > Jon
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                                      > > > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Please sign your posts!
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more
                                      > > > > common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard
                                      > > > > or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the
                                      > > > > power requirements than running a graphics card.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                      > > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                      > > > > Rockford, Illinois
                                      > > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > From: the65thsquare
                                      > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                                      > > > > To: mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Hi All,
                                      > > > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the
                                      > > > > right direction.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
                                      > > > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Since Then,
                                      > > > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work,
                                      > > > > Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                                      > > > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                                      > > > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video
                                      > > > > windows)
                                      > > > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but
                                      > > > > still crashes
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I
                                      > > > > can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any
                                      > > > > ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Thanks for your comments.
                                      > > > > :)
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >

                                      ------------------------------------

                                      Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                      100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members Simply
                                      Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on the
                                      Internet.
                                      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2

                                      Yahoo! Groups Links





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • the65thsquare
                                      Bill, the new one was 475W, a bit more than the 450W of the previous.
                                      Message 18 of 24 , May 16, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Bill, the new one was 475W, a bit more than the 450W of the previous.

                                        --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Aycock" <billaycock@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Jon--
                                        > Just replacing the PS may not be enough; You probably need a higher
                                        > capacity.
                                        > Some Video cards specify the PS rating needed (minimum). What Wattage was
                                        > the one you took out and what rating was the new one? My Nvidia dual monitor
                                        > card had a clear warning.
                                        > 50C is a little high. This AMD Phenom, 4 CPU is running 32C right now. It
                                        > was higher before I "de-linted" it. I don't know the danger level.
                                        > Bill--W4BSG
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: the65thsquare
                                        > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:07 AM
                                        > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems
                                        >
                                        > PC is still unstable. I'm starting to think it is the mobo. Any ideas?
                                        >
                                        > New PSU, OK RAM, no SMART warnings from HDD, Fresh Install of OS, Claimed
                                        > graphic card warranty.
                                        >
                                        > Possible Chip+Fan not sitting properly and overheating, but BIOS says CPU
                                        > around 50C or so.
                                        >
                                        > Jon
                                        >
                                        > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Thanks Mike,
                                        > >
                                        > > appreciate it. Giving my old memory another try.
                                        > >
                                        > > Jon
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "mgandtherays" <mgwiz@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Hey Jon:
                                        > > > Before swapping out PSU... I would try swapping around installed RAM.
                                        > > > What I've learned from some of the guru's here is that RAM
                                        > > > testing )MemTest86; MSFT's W's RAM DXD Tool) is not so reliable.
                                        > > > How is onboard-integrated video quality with just one stick only in slot
                                        > > > #1. Then instead of two sticks in # 1 and 3, try one each in slots #1
                                        > > > and 2. My exp w/ my mobo/bios is that I had to 'teach' it to go into
                                        > > > dual-channel, then populated 3 & 4. See if that gives you a performance
                                        > > > boost/stability.
                                        > > > mike in fla
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@>
                                        > > > wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Hi Bill!
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power
                                        > > > > supply?
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of
                                        > > > > elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated
                                        > > > > drivers too.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Cheers,
                                        > > > > Jon
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                                        > > > > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Please sign your posts!
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more
                                        > > > > > common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard
                                        > > > > > or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the
                                        > > > > > power requirements than running a graphics card.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                        > > > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                        > > > > > Rockford, Illinois
                                        > > > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > From: the65thsquare
                                        > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                                        > > > > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Hi All,
                                        > > > > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the
                                        > > > > > right direction.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
                                        > > > > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Since Then,
                                        > > > > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work,
                                        > > > > > Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                                        > > > > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                                        > > > > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video
                                        > > > > > windows)
                                        > > > > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but
                                        > > > > > still crashes
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I
                                        > > > > > can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any
                                        > > > > > ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Thanks for your comments.
                                        > > > > > :)
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                        > 100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members Simply
                                        > Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on the
                                        > Internet.
                                        > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                      • the65thsquare
                                        I ve just about given up after two weeks of meddling inside the rig. I had another crash with the pixelated screen again, which is supposed to be a bad graphic
                                        Message 19 of 24 , May 16, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I've just about given up after two weeks of meddling inside the rig. I had another crash with the pixelated screen again, which is supposed to be a bad graphic card.

                                          Somehow, I think it has nothing to do with the graphic card, since I already got a repaired card on warranty for the earlier one (which may not have been faulty at all). I'm wondering if there is a 'graphics section' on the mobo which was damaged by the improper shutdown.

                                          It is quite difficult to go from a PC that is stable for 60+ days without shutdown despite what I throw at it, to one that can't run a couple of video screens. Add to it the latest Firefox 21 problem with Adobe Flash plugin and it is just pretty frustrating.

                                          I've tried to replicate both hardware and software environment best as I can, but still can't find a solution. I did jiggle the processor fan a little to check the processor as someone recommended but it was tight to the mobo, and there is no lint in the cooling fins.

                                          Ambient temperature is reasonable and I have an AC on/off throughout the day, partly aimed at the casing. The last things I have not eliminated are the mobo-processor.

                                          Am I missing something?

                                          *I have a break in work in about 6 hours from now. I need to fit in a new mobo-processor-RAM in this weekend time frame. I figure I will install the problem mobo-processor-RAM setup into a casing lying around later and fiddle with it a little, while the new rig takes over.

                                          The old one works, but it is just not very stable anymore. Maybe I should mention that it is coming to 5-years old and I understand that it is common for fails around this period. But this is quite the difficult problem.

                                          Thanks for the moral support and advice. ;)
                                          Jon

                                          --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer" <CCS-Trainmaster@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Hi,
                                          >
                                          > Just for informational purposes, the newer Intel processors begin to throttle down at 90c.
                                          > This reduces power consumption and prevents damage to the processor.
                                          >
                                          > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                          > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                          > Rockford, Illinois
                                          > http://www.rockrail.org
                                          >
                                          > From: Bill Aycock
                                          > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 10:23 AM
                                          > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Jon--
                                          > Just replacing the PS may not be enough; You probably need a higher
                                          > capacity.
                                          > Some Video cards specify the PS rating needed (minimum). What Wattage was
                                          > the one you took out and what rating was the new one? My Nvidia dual monitor
                                          > card had a clear warning.
                                          > 50C is a little high. This AMD Phenom, 4 CPU is running 32C right now. It
                                          > was higher before I "de-linted" it. I don't know the danger level.
                                          > Bill--W4BSG
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: the65thsquare
                                          > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:07 AM
                                          > To: mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems
                                          >
                                          > PC is still unstable. I'm starting to think it is the mobo. Any ideas?
                                          >
                                          > New PSU, OK RAM, no SMART warnings from HDD, Fresh Install of OS, Claimed
                                          > graphic card warranty.
                                          >
                                          > Possible Chip+Fan not sitting properly and overheating, but BIOS says CPU
                                          > around 50C or so.
                                          >
                                          > Jon
                                          >
                                          > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Thanks Mike,
                                          > >
                                          > > appreciate it. Giving my old memory another try.
                                          > >
                                          > > Jon
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, "mgandtherays" <mgwiz@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Hey Jon:
                                          > > > Before swapping out PSU... I would try swapping around installed RAM.
                                          > > > What I've learned from some of the guru's here is that RAM
                                          > > > testing )MemTest86; MSFT's W's RAM DXD Tool) is not so reliable.
                                          > > > How is onboard-integrated video quality with just one stick only in slot
                                          > > > #1. Then instead of two sticks in # 1 and 3, try one each in slots #1
                                          > > > and 2. My exp w/ my mobo/bios is that I had to 'teach' it to go into
                                          > > > dual-channel, then populated 3 & 4. See if that gives you a performance
                                          > > > boost/stability.
                                          > > > mike in fla
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@>
                                          > > > wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Hi Bill!
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power
                                          > > > > supply?
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of
                                          > > > > elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated
                                          > > > > drivers too.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Cheers,
                                          > > > > Jon
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                                          > > > > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Please sign your posts!
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more
                                          > > > > > common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard
                                          > > > > > or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the
                                          > > > > > power requirements than running a graphics card.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                          > > > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                          > > > > > Rockford, Illinois
                                          > > > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > From: the65thsquare
                                          > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                                          > > > > > To: mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Hi All,
                                          > > > > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the
                                          > > > > > right direction.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
                                          > > > > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Since Then,
                                          > > > > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work,
                                          > > > > > Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                                          > > > > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                                          > > > > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video
                                          > > > > > windows)
                                          > > > > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but
                                          > > > > > still crashes
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I
                                          > > > > > can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any
                                          > > > > > ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Thanks for your comments.
                                          > > > > > :)
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          > Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                          > 100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members Simply
                                          > Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on the
                                          > Internet.
                                          > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                        • RogerX19
                                          50 C is a bit warm. Speedfan might give you more accurate temperature readings: http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php re: your new power supply ... you had a
                                          Message 20 of 24 , May 16, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            50 C is a bit warm.

                                            "Speedfan" might give you more accurate temperature readings:

                                            http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php

                                            re: your new power supply ... you had a 450 w and upgraded to 475, which may not be enough.

                                            PS makers often lie about the wattage output ... your new one may not be any better than the old one. You should go to one rated at 600W or so, and from a reputable company, so that you can assume the rating is accurrate.

                                            This is no time to put in a cheap power supply that will give you the same symptoms as you had ... you have proven whether the power supply is inadequate by putting in a similar-rated one.

                                            You also need to get that heatsink off, remove any old heatsink paste and put some new in. Do Not use more than a drop or so, Do Not spread it around with your finger.

                                            There are some good tutorials on how to do this on the Internet, just do a Google search.

                                            Until you are sure you are getting good heat transfer, and that you have a strong enough power supply to feed the graphic card, anything else you do may just be a waste of time.

                                            You need to establish a solid foundation to start from before you can troubleshoot further.

                                            Why waste time swapping parts in and out when you don't know you have good heat transfer, and don't know you have a reliable power supply?

                                            rogerX


                                            --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Hi Vincent and Bill,
                                            >
                                            > You both said overheating, and it is possible. I did clean off all the dust inside already but have not gotten around to pulling apart the processor-fan setup inside.
                                            >
                                            > I remember BIOS said the processor temp was around 50C. Is that cause for concern.
                                            >
                                            > Jon
                                            >
                                            > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, Vincent Winterling <vincewinterling@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Is the machine overheating?
                                            > >
                                            > > I can't remember if this is a new build or an older system. If an older
                                            > > system I would pull the cpu and heat sink fan apart, verify it's clean and
                                            > > give it some fresh thermal paste.
                                            > >
                                            > > Even though the ram checked out, have you swapped it around (assuming more
                                            > > than one or more sticks) and tried running the machine on one stick alone?
                                            > >
                                            > > As others have suggested, making sure your power supply is up to the task is
                                            > > needed. Again, if it's old it might be worth upgrading. I just bought a good
                                            > > one my daughter's desktop for about $35 at NewEgg.
                                            > >
                                            > > Vincent Winterling
                                            > > Vineland, NJ
                                            > >
                                            > > -----Original Message-----
                                            > > From: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > [mailto:simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of the65thsquare
                                            > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 7:54 AM
                                            > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Subject: Re: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                                            > >
                                            > > Hi Bill!
                                            > >
                                            > > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                                            > >
                                            > > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power supply?
                                            > >
                                            > > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of elimination
                                            > > during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated drivers too.
                                            > >
                                            > > Cheers,
                                            > > Jon
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                                            > > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Please sign your posts!
                                            > > >
                                            > > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more common
                                            > > for a power supply to fail than for it to be the motherboard or graphics
                                            > > card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on the power requirements
                                            > > than running a graphics card.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                            > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                            > > > Rockford, Illinois
                                            > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                                            > > >
                                            > > > From: the65thsquare
                                            > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                                            > > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Hi All,
                                            > > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the right
                                            > > direction.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics usage.
                                            > > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Since Then,
                                            > > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work, Reinstalled XP
                                            > > SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                                            > > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                                            > > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                                            > > >
                                            > > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC video
                                            > > windows)
                                            > > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo, but still
                                            > > crashes
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything I can
                                            > > think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any ideas? Anyone hit
                                            > > something similar before?
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Thanks for your comments.
                                            > > > :)
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • Bill Aycock
                                            Jon-- Do you listen -- or read-- our suggestions? Based on my own past experience, I have asked questions about the power supply needs. I don t recall getting
                                            Message 21 of 24 , May 16, 2013
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Jon--
                                              Do you listen -- or read-- our suggestions? Based on my own past experience,
                                              I have asked questions about the power supply needs. I don't recall getting
                                              any answer. If you will tell me the model and brand of the Video card, I
                                              will look for you.
                                              Bill--W4BSG

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: the65thsquare
                                              Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 12:16 PM
                                              To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems

                                              I've just about given up after two weeks of meddling inside the rig. I had
                                              another crash with the pixelated screen again, which is supposed to be a bad
                                              graphic card.

                                              Somehow, I think it has nothing to do with the graphic card, since I already
                                              got a repaired card on warranty for the earlier one (which may not have been
                                              faulty at all). I'm wondering if there is a 'graphics section' on the mobo
                                              which was damaged by the improper shutdown.

                                              It is quite difficult to go from a PC that is stable for 60+ days without
                                              shutdown despite what I throw at it, to one that can't run a couple of video
                                              screens. Add to it the latest Firefox 21 problem with Adobe Flash plugin and
                                              it is just pretty frustrating.

                                              I've tried to replicate both hardware and software environment best as I
                                              can, but still can't find a solution. I did jiggle the processor fan a
                                              little to check the processor as someone recommended but it was tight to the
                                              mobo, and there is no lint in the cooling fins.

                                              Ambient temperature is reasonable and I have an AC on/off throughout the
                                              day, partly aimed at the casing. The last things I have not eliminated are
                                              the mobo-processor.

                                              Am I missing something?

                                              *I have a break in work in about 6 hours from now. I need to fit in a new
                                              mobo-processor-RAM in this weekend time frame. I figure I will install the
                                              problem mobo-processor-RAM setup into a casing lying around later and fiddle
                                              with it a little, while the new rig takes over.

                                              The old one works, but it is just not very stable anymore. Maybe I should
                                              mention that it is coming to 5-years old and I understand that it is common
                                              for fails around this period. But this is quite the difficult problem.

                                              Thanks for the moral support and advice. ;)
                                              Jon

                                              --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                                              <CCS-Trainmaster@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Hi,
                                              >
                                              > Just for informational purposes, the newer Intel processors begin to
                                              > throttle down at 90c.
                                              > This reduces power consumption and prevents damage to the processor.
                                              >
                                              > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                              > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                              > Rockford, Illinois
                                              > http://www.rockrail.org
                                              >
                                              > From: Bill Aycock
                                              > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 10:23 AM
                                              > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: Re: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Jon--
                                              > Just replacing the PS may not be enough; You probably need a higher
                                              > capacity.
                                              > Some Video cards specify the PS rating needed (minimum). What Wattage was
                                              > the one you took out and what rating was the new one? My Nvidia dual
                                              > monitor
                                              > card had a clear warning.
                                              > 50C is a little high. This AMD Phenom, 4 CPU is running 32C right now. It
                                              > was higher before I "de-linted" it. I don't know the danger level.
                                              > Bill--W4BSG
                                              >
                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: the65thsquare
                                              > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:07 AM
                                              > To: mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems
                                              >
                                              > PC is still unstable. I'm starting to think it is the mobo. Any ideas?
                                              >
                                              > New PSU, OK RAM, no SMART warnings from HDD, Fresh Install of OS, Claimed
                                              > graphic card warranty.
                                              >
                                              > Possible Chip+Fan not sitting properly and overheating, but BIOS says CPU
                                              > around 50C or so.
                                              >
                                              > Jon
                                              >
                                              > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare
                                              > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Thanks Mike,
                                              > >
                                              > > appreciate it. Giving my old memory another try.
                                              > >
                                              > > Jon
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, "mgandtherays"
                                              > > <mgwiz@> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Hey Jon:
                                              > > > Before swapping out PSU... I would try swapping around installed RAM.
                                              > > > What I've learned from some of the guru's here is that RAM
                                              > > > testing )MemTest86; MSFT's W's RAM DXD Tool) is not so reliable.
                                              > > > How is onboard-integrated video quality with just one stick only in
                                              > > > slot
                                              > > > #1. Then instead of two sticks in # 1 and 3, try one each in slots #1
                                              > > > and 2. My exp w/ my mobo/bios is that I had to 'teach' it to go into
                                              > > > dual-channel, then populated 3 & 4. See if that gives you a
                                              > > > performance
                                              > > > boost/stability.
                                              > > > mike in fla
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare
                                              > > > <no_reply@>
                                              > > > wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Hi Bill!
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power
                                              > > > > supply?
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of
                                              > > > > elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated
                                              > > > > drivers too.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Cheers,
                                              > > > > Jon
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                                              > > > > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Please sign your posts!
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more
                                              > > > > > common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the
                                              > > > > > motherboard
                                              > > > > > or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on
                                              > > > > > the
                                              > > > > > power requirements than running a graphics card.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                              > > > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                              > > > > > Rockford, Illinois
                                              > > > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > From: the65thsquare
                                              > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                                              > > > > > To: mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Hi All,
                                              > > > > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the
                                              > > > > > right direction.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics
                                              > > > > > usage.
                                              > > > > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Since Then,
                                              > > > > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work,
                                              > > > > > Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                                              > > > > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                                              > > > > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC
                                              > > > > > video
                                              > > > > > windows)
                                              > > > > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo,
                                              > > > > > but
                                              > > > > > still crashes
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything
                                              > > > > > I
                                              > > > > > can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any
                                              > > > > > ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Thanks for your comments.
                                              > > > > > :)
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              > Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                              > 100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members
                                              > Simply
                                              > Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on the
                                              > Internet.
                                              > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >




                                              ------------------------------------

                                              Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                              100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members Simply
                                              Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on the
                                              Internet.
                                              http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2

                                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            • the65thsquare
                                              Hi Bill, Sorry, I misunderstood you and thought you were asking about the PS. The graphic card is an old Nvidia Geforce 210. Your question did not register
                                              Message 22 of 24 , May 16, 2013
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Hi Bill,

                                                Sorry, I misunderstood you and thought you were asking about the PS.
                                                The graphic card is an old Nvidia Geforce 210.

                                                Your question did not register immediately because things were fine and stable with the previous PS-hardware combo, and I thought that replacing with a slightly better PS of the same brand would be sufficient. Unless the brownout suddenly caused something to start draining more power, which should not be the case.

                                                I did a quick check on the whole system and have slightly under double the power I am supposed to need.
                                                http://images10.newegg.com/BizIntell/tool/psucalc/index.html

                                                However, http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-210/specifications says I need a minimum 300W.

                                                Think I will go with the second spec and hope to see how you calculate it. I did reply about the PS in another message, you may have missed it. I had a 450W PS and am now using a 475W PS.

                                                Thanks,
                                                Jon

                                                --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Aycock" <billaycock@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Jon--
                                                > Do you listen -- or read-- our suggestions? Based on my own past experience,
                                                > I have asked questions about the power supply needs. I don't recall getting
                                                > any answer. If you will tell me the model and brand of the Video card, I
                                                > will look for you.
                                                > Bill--W4BSG
                                                >
                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                > From: the65thsquare
                                                > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 12:16 PM
                                                > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems
                                                >
                                                > I've just about given up after two weeks of meddling inside the rig. I had
                                                > another crash with the pixelated screen again, which is supposed to be a bad
                                                > graphic card.
                                                >
                                                > Somehow, I think it has nothing to do with the graphic card, since I already
                                                > got a repaired card on warranty for the earlier one (which may not have been
                                                > faulty at all). I'm wondering if there is a 'graphics section' on the mobo
                                                > which was damaged by the improper shutdown.
                                                >
                                                > It is quite difficult to go from a PC that is stable for 60+ days without
                                                > shutdown despite what I throw at it, to one that can't run a couple of video
                                                > screens. Add to it the latest Firefox 21 problem with Adobe Flash plugin and
                                                > it is just pretty frustrating.
                                                >
                                                > I've tried to replicate both hardware and software environment best as I
                                                > can, but still can't find a solution. I did jiggle the processor fan a
                                                > little to check the processor as someone recommended but it was tight to the
                                                > mobo, and there is no lint in the cooling fins.
                                                >
                                                > Ambient temperature is reasonable and I have an AC on/off throughout the
                                                > day, partly aimed at the casing. The last things I have not eliminated are
                                                > the mobo-processor.
                                                >
                                                > Am I missing something?
                                                >
                                                > *I have a break in work in about 6 hours from now. I need to fit in a new
                                                > mobo-processor-RAM in this weekend time frame. I figure I will install the
                                                > problem mobo-processor-RAM setup into a casing lying around later and fiddle
                                                > with it a little, while the new rig takes over.
                                                >
                                                > The old one works, but it is just not very stable anymore. Maybe I should
                                                > mention that it is coming to 5-years old and I understand that it is common
                                                > for fails around this period. But this is quite the difficult problem.
                                                >
                                                > Thanks for the moral support and advice. ;)
                                                > Jon
                                                >
                                                > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                                                > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Hi,
                                                > >
                                                > > Just for informational purposes, the newer Intel processors begin to
                                                > > throttle down at 90c.
                                                > > This reduces power consumption and prevents damage to the processor.
                                                > >
                                                > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                                > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                                > > Rockford, Illinois
                                                > > http://www.rockrail.org
                                                > >
                                                > > From: Bill Aycock
                                                > > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 10:23 AM
                                                > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > Subject: Re: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Jon--
                                                > > Just replacing the PS may not be enough; You probably need a higher
                                                > > capacity.
                                                > > Some Video cards specify the PS rating needed (minimum). What Wattage was
                                                > > the one you took out and what rating was the new one? My Nvidia dual
                                                > > monitor
                                                > > card had a clear warning.
                                                > > 50C is a little high. This AMD Phenom, 4 CPU is running 32C right now. It
                                                > > was higher before I "de-linted" it. I don't know the danger level.
                                                > > Bill--W4BSG
                                                > >
                                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                                > > From: the65thsquare
                                                > > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:07 AM
                                                > > To: mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com
                                                > > Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems
                                                > >
                                                > > PC is still unstable. I'm starting to think it is the mobo. Any ideas?
                                                > >
                                                > > New PSU, OK RAM, no SMART warnings from HDD, Fresh Install of OS, Claimed
                                                > > graphic card warranty.
                                                > >
                                                > > Possible Chip+Fan not sitting properly and overheating, but BIOS says CPU
                                                > > around 50C or so.
                                                > >
                                                > > Jon
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare
                                                > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Thanks Mike,
                                                > > >
                                                > > > appreciate it. Giving my old memory another try.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Jon
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, "mgandtherays"
                                                > > > <mgwiz@> wrote:
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Hey Jon:
                                                > > > > Before swapping out PSU... I would try swapping around installed RAM.
                                                > > > > What I've learned from some of the guru's here is that RAM
                                                > > > > testing )MemTest86; MSFT's W's RAM DXD Tool) is not so reliable.
                                                > > > > How is onboard-integrated video quality with just one stick only in
                                                > > > > slot
                                                > > > > #1. Then instead of two sticks in # 1 and 3, try one each in slots #1
                                                > > > > and 2. My exp w/ my mobo/bios is that I had to 'teach' it to go into
                                                > > > > dual-channel, then populated 3 & 4. See if that gives you a
                                                > > > > performance
                                                > > > > boost/stability.
                                                > > > > mike in fla
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare
                                                > > > > <no_reply@>
                                                > > > > wrote:
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Hi Bill!
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new power
                                                > > > > > supply?
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of
                                                > > > > > elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated
                                                > > > > > drivers too.
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Cheers,
                                                > > > > > Jon
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                                                > > > > > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Please sign your posts!
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more
                                                > > > > > > common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the
                                                > > > > > > motherboard
                                                > > > > > > or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on
                                                > > > > > > the
                                                > > > > > > power requirements than running a graphics card.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                                > > > > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                                > > > > > > Rockford, Illinois
                                                > > > > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > From: the65thsquare
                                                > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                                                > > > > > > To: mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Hi All,
                                                > > > > > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the
                                                > > > > > > right direction.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics
                                                > > > > > > usage.
                                                > > > > > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Since Then,
                                                > > > > > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work,
                                                > > > > > > Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                                                > > > > > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                                                > > > > > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC
                                                > > > > > > video
                                                > > > > > > windows)
                                                > > > > > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo,
                                                > > > > > > but
                                                > > > > > > still crashes
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost everything
                                                > > > > > > I
                                                > > > > > > can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any
                                                > > > > > > ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Thanks for your comments.
                                                > > > > > > :)
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                > > ------------------------------------
                                                > >
                                                > > Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                                > > 100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members
                                                > > Simply
                                                > > Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on the
                                                > > Internet.
                                                > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2
                                                > >
                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ------------------------------------
                                                >
                                                > Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                                > 100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members Simply
                                                > Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on the
                                                > Internet.
                                                > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2
                                                >
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                              • Bill Aycock
                                                Jon-- Sorry that I seemed testy, but I had specifically asked about the power requirements specified for the Video card several times, and had nothing. I KNOW
                                                Message 23 of 24 , May 16, 2013
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Jon--
                                                  Sorry that I seemed testy, but I had specifically asked about the power
                                                  requirements specified for the Video card several times, and had nothing. I
                                                  KNOW that many Video cards have surprising requirements. Early posts from
                                                  you and others had remarked on some video options you sometimes used, so I
                                                  had wondered about load. I have seen specs for "Gamer" cards that use over
                                                  500W by themselves.
                                                  It appears that you have adequate power available, so the problem is
                                                  probably elsewhere.
                                                  Bill--W4BSG

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: the65thsquare
                                                  Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:46 PM
                                                  To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems

                                                  Hi Bill,

                                                  Sorry, I misunderstood you and thought you were asking about the PS.
                                                  The graphic card is an old Nvidia Geforce 210.

                                                  Your question did not register immediately because things were fine and
                                                  stable with the previous PS-hardware combo, and I thought that replacing
                                                  with a slightly better PS of the same brand would be sufficient. Unless the
                                                  brownout suddenly caused something to start draining more power, which
                                                  should not be the case.

                                                  I did a quick check on the whole system and have slightly under double the
                                                  power I am supposed to need.
                                                  http://images10.newegg.com/BizIntell/tool/psucalc/index.html

                                                  However,
                                                  http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-210/specifications says
                                                  I need a minimum 300W.

                                                  Think I will go with the second spec and hope to see how you calculate it. I
                                                  did reply about the PS in another message, you may have missed it. I had a
                                                  450W PS and am now using a 475W PS.

                                                  Thanks,
                                                  Jon

                                                  --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Aycock" <billaycock@...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Jon--
                                                  > Do you listen -- or read-- our suggestions? Based on my own past
                                                  > experience,
                                                  > I have asked questions about the power supply needs. I don't recall
                                                  > getting
                                                  > any answer. If you will tell me the model and brand of the Video card, I
                                                  > will look for you.
                                                  > Bill--W4BSG
                                                  >
                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                  > From: the65thsquare
                                                  > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 12:16 PM
                                                  > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems
                                                  >
                                                  > I've just about given up after two weeks of meddling inside the rig. I had
                                                  > another crash with the pixelated screen again, which is supposed to be a
                                                  > bad
                                                  > graphic card.
                                                  >
                                                  > Somehow, I think it has nothing to do with the graphic card, since I
                                                  > already
                                                  > got a repaired card on warranty for the earlier one (which may not have
                                                  > been
                                                  > faulty at all). I'm wondering if there is a 'graphics section' on the mobo
                                                  > which was damaged by the improper shutdown.
                                                  >
                                                  > It is quite difficult to go from a PC that is stable for 60+ days without
                                                  > shutdown despite what I throw at it, to one that can't run a couple of
                                                  > video
                                                  > screens. Add to it the latest Firefox 21 problem with Adobe Flash plugin
                                                  > and
                                                  > it is just pretty frustrating.
                                                  >
                                                  > I've tried to replicate both hardware and software environment best as I
                                                  > can, but still can't find a solution. I did jiggle the processor fan a
                                                  > little to check the processor as someone recommended but it was tight to
                                                  > the
                                                  > mobo, and there is no lint in the cooling fins.
                                                  >
                                                  > Ambient temperature is reasonable and I have an AC on/off throughout the
                                                  > day, partly aimed at the casing. The last things I have not eliminated are
                                                  > the mobo-processor.
                                                  >
                                                  > Am I missing something?
                                                  >
                                                  > *I have a break in work in about 6 hours from now. I need to fit in a new
                                                  > mobo-processor-RAM in this weekend time frame. I figure I will install the
                                                  > problem mobo-processor-RAM setup into a casing lying around later and
                                                  > fiddle
                                                  > with it a little, while the new rig takes over.
                                                  >
                                                  > The old one works, but it is just not very stable anymore. Maybe I should
                                                  > mention that it is coming to 5-years old and I understand that it is
                                                  > common
                                                  > for fails around this period. But this is quite the difficult problem.
                                                  >
                                                  > Thanks for the moral support and advice. ;)
                                                  > Jon
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                                                  > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Hi,
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Just for informational purposes, the newer Intel processors begin to
                                                  > > throttle down at 90c.
                                                  > > This reduces power consumption and prevents damage to the processor.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                                  > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                                  > > Rockford, Illinois
                                                  > > http://www.rockrail.org
                                                  > >
                                                  > > From: Bill Aycock
                                                  > > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 10:23 AM
                                                  > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > Subject: Re: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Jon--
                                                  > > Just replacing the PS may not be enough; You probably need a higher
                                                  > > capacity.
                                                  > > Some Video cards specify the PS rating needed (minimum). What Wattage
                                                  > > was
                                                  > > the one you took out and what rating was the new one? My Nvidia dual
                                                  > > monitor
                                                  > > card had a clear warning.
                                                  > > 50C is a little high. This AMD Phenom, 4 CPU is running 32C right now.
                                                  > > It
                                                  > > was higher before I "de-linted" it. I don't know the danger level.
                                                  > > Bill--W4BSG
                                                  > >
                                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                                  > > From: the65thsquare
                                                  > > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:07 AM
                                                  > > To: mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems
                                                  > >
                                                  > > PC is still unstable. I'm starting to think it is the mobo. Any ideas?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > New PSU, OK RAM, no SMART warnings from HDD, Fresh Install of OS,
                                                  > > Claimed
                                                  > > graphic card warranty.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Possible Chip+Fan not sitting properly and overheating, but BIOS says
                                                  > > CPU
                                                  > > around 50C or so.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Jon
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare
                                                  > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Thanks Mike,
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > appreciate it. Giving my old memory another try.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Jon
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, "mgandtherays"
                                                  > > > <mgwiz@> wrote:
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Hey Jon:
                                                  > > > > Before swapping out PSU... I would try swapping around installed
                                                  > > > > RAM.
                                                  > > > > What I've learned from some of the guru's here is that RAM
                                                  > > > > testing )MemTest86; MSFT's W's RAM DXD Tool) is not so reliable.
                                                  > > > > How is onboard-integrated video quality with just one stick only in
                                                  > > > > slot
                                                  > > > > #1. Then instead of two sticks in # 1 and 3, try one each in slots
                                                  > > > > #1
                                                  > > > > and 2. My exp w/ my mobo/bios is that I had to 'teach' it to go into
                                                  > > > > dual-channel, then populated 3 & 4. See if that gives you a
                                                  > > > > performance
                                                  > > > > boost/stability.
                                                  > > > > mike in fla
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare
                                                  > > > > <no_reply@>
                                                  > > > > wrote:
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Hi Bill!
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new
                                                  > > > > > power
                                                  > > > > > supply?
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of
                                                  > > > > > elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated
                                                  > > > > > drivers too.
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Cheers,
                                                  > > > > > Jon
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, "Bill
                                                  > > > > > Kirchmeyer"
                                                  > > > > > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Please sign your posts!
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more
                                                  > > > > > > common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the
                                                  > > > > > > motherboard
                                                  > > > > > > or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on
                                                  > > > > > > the
                                                  > > > > > > power requirements than running a graphics card.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                                  > > > > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                                  > > > > > > Rockford, Illinois
                                                  > > > > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > From: the65thsquare
                                                  > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                                                  > > > > > > To: mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Hi All,
                                                  > > > > > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the
                                                  > > > > > > right direction.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics
                                                  > > > > > > usage.
                                                  > > > > > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Since Then,
                                                  > > > > > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work,
                                                  > > > > > > Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                                                  > > > > > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                                                  > > > > > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC
                                                  > > > > > > video
                                                  > > > > > > windows)
                                                  > > > > > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo,
                                                  > > > > > > but
                                                  > > > > > > still crashes
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost
                                                  > > > > > > everything
                                                  > > > > > > I
                                                  > > > > > > can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any
                                                  > > > > > > ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Thanks for your comments.
                                                  > > > > > > :)
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                                  > > 100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members
                                                  > > Simply
                                                  > > Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on
                                                  > > the
                                                  > > Internet.
                                                  > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------------------------------
                                                  >
                                                  > Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                                  > 100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members
                                                  > Simply
                                                  > Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on the
                                                  > Internet.
                                                  > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >




                                                  ------------------------------------

                                                  Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                                  100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members Simply
                                                  Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on the
                                                  Internet.
                                                  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2

                                                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                • the65thsquare
                                                  Hi Bill, Don t worry about it. Uncooperative equipment makes for grouchy people. I do appreciate the help and advice you and everyone has given. It must be
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , May 17, 2013
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Hi Bill,

                                                    Don't worry about it. Uncooperative equipment makes for grouchy people. I do appreciate the help and advice you and everyone has given. It must be hard when people do doofus things. I am quite short with people myself, although age has tempered the wildness of youth. :)

                                                    Anyway, I certainly know more now than I did before, and that in itself satisfies me.

                                                    Footnote: I took the whole rig to a shop, thinking to put a new Core i5 system in, but was able to replace a $50 MSI MObo. So far so good. The tech pointed out some of brown/burnt staining on the bottom of the mobo, and said it might be a failing mobo.

                                                    Hope it buys me a couple of years before I need to buy a new rig.
                                                    Thanks everyone.
                                                    Jon

                                                    --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Aycock" <billaycock@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Jon--
                                                    > Sorry that I seemed testy, but I had specifically asked about the power
                                                    > requirements specified for the Video card several times, and had nothing. I
                                                    > KNOW that many Video cards have surprising requirements. Early posts from
                                                    > you and others had remarked on some video options you sometimes used, so I
                                                    > had wondered about load. I have seen specs for "Gamer" cards that use over
                                                    > 500W by themselves.
                                                    > It appears that you have adequate power available, so the problem is
                                                    > probably elsewhere.
                                                    > Bill--W4BSG
                                                    >
                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                    > From: the65thsquare
                                                    > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:46 PM
                                                    > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi Bill,
                                                    >
                                                    > Sorry, I misunderstood you and thought you were asking about the PS.
                                                    > The graphic card is an old Nvidia Geforce 210.
                                                    >
                                                    > Your question did not register immediately because things were fine and
                                                    > stable with the previous PS-hardware combo, and I thought that replacing
                                                    > with a slightly better PS of the same brand would be sufficient. Unless the
                                                    > brownout suddenly caused something to start draining more power, which
                                                    > should not be the case.
                                                    >
                                                    > I did a quick check on the whole system and have slightly under double the
                                                    > power I am supposed to need.
                                                    > http://images10.newegg.com/BizIntell/tool/psucalc/index.html
                                                    >
                                                    > However,
                                                    > http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-210/specifications says
                                                    > I need a minimum 300W.
                                                    >
                                                    > Think I will go with the second spec and hope to see how you calculate it. I
                                                    > did reply about the PS in another message, you may have missed it. I had a
                                                    > 450W PS and am now using a 475W PS.
                                                    >
                                                    > Thanks,
                                                    > Jon
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Aycock" <billaycock@>
                                                    > wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Jon--
                                                    > > Do you listen -- or read-- our suggestions? Based on my own past
                                                    > > experience,
                                                    > > I have asked questions about the power supply needs. I don't recall
                                                    > > getting
                                                    > > any answer. If you will tell me the model and brand of the Video card, I
                                                    > > will look for you.
                                                    > > Bill--W4BSG
                                                    > >
                                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                                    > > From: the65thsquare
                                                    > > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 12:16 PM
                                                    > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I've just about given up after two weeks of meddling inside the rig. I had
                                                    > > another crash with the pixelated screen again, which is supposed to be a
                                                    > > bad
                                                    > > graphic card.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Somehow, I think it has nothing to do with the graphic card, since I
                                                    > > already
                                                    > > got a repaired card on warranty for the earlier one (which may not have
                                                    > > been
                                                    > > faulty at all). I'm wondering if there is a 'graphics section' on the mobo
                                                    > > which was damaged by the improper shutdown.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > It is quite difficult to go from a PC that is stable for 60+ days without
                                                    > > shutdown despite what I throw at it, to one that can't run a couple of
                                                    > > video
                                                    > > screens. Add to it the latest Firefox 21 problem with Adobe Flash plugin
                                                    > > and
                                                    > > it is just pretty frustrating.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I've tried to replicate both hardware and software environment best as I
                                                    > > can, but still can't find a solution. I did jiggle the processor fan a
                                                    > > little to check the processor as someone recommended but it was tight to
                                                    > > the
                                                    > > mobo, and there is no lint in the cooling fins.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Ambient temperature is reasonable and I have an AC on/off throughout the
                                                    > > day, partly aimed at the casing. The last things I have not eliminated are
                                                    > > the mobo-processor.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Am I missing something?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > *I have a break in work in about 6 hours from now. I need to fit in a new
                                                    > > mobo-processor-RAM in this weekend time frame. I figure I will install the
                                                    > > problem mobo-processor-RAM setup into a casing lying around later and
                                                    > > fiddle
                                                    > > with it a little, while the new rig takes over.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > The old one works, but it is just not very stable anymore. Maybe I should
                                                    > > mention that it is coming to 5-years old and I understand that it is
                                                    > > common
                                                    > > for fails around this period. But this is quite the difficult problem.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Thanks for the moral support and advice. ;)
                                                    > > Jon
                                                    > >
                                                    > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kirchmeyer"
                                                    > > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Hi,
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Just for informational purposes, the newer Intel processors begin to
                                                    > > > throttle down at 90c.
                                                    > > > This reduces power consumption and prevents damage to the processor.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                                    > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                                    > > > Rockford, Illinois
                                                    > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > From: Bill Aycock
                                                    > > > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 10:23 AM
                                                    > > > To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > > Subject: Re: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Jon--
                                                    > > > Just replacing the PS may not be enough; You probably need a higher
                                                    > > > capacity.
                                                    > > > Some Video cards specify the PS rating needed (minimum). What Wattage
                                                    > > > was
                                                    > > > the one you took out and what rating was the new one? My Nvidia dual
                                                    > > > monitor
                                                    > > > card had a clear warning.
                                                    > > > 50C is a little high. This AMD Phenom, 4 CPU is running 32C right now.
                                                    > > > It
                                                    > > > was higher before I "de-linted" it. I don't know the danger level.
                                                    > > > Bill--W4BSG
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                    > > > From: the65thsquare
                                                    > > > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:07 AM
                                                    > > > To: mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: PC Problems
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > PC is still unstable. I'm starting to think it is the mobo. Any ideas?
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > New PSU, OK RAM, no SMART warnings from HDD, Fresh Install of OS,
                                                    > > > Claimed
                                                    > > > graphic card warranty.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Possible Chip+Fan not sitting properly and overheating, but BIOS says
                                                    > > > CPU
                                                    > > > around 50C or so.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Jon
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare
                                                    > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Thanks Mike,
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > appreciate it. Giving my old memory another try.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Jon
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, "mgandtherays"
                                                    > > > > <mgwiz@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > Hey Jon:
                                                    > > > > > Before swapping out PSU... I would try swapping around installed
                                                    > > > > > RAM.
                                                    > > > > > What I've learned from some of the guru's here is that RAM
                                                    > > > > > testing )MemTest86; MSFT's W's RAM DXD Tool) is not so reliable.
                                                    > > > > > How is onboard-integrated video quality with just one stick only in
                                                    > > > > > slot
                                                    > > > > > #1. Then instead of two sticks in # 1 and 3, try one each in slots
                                                    > > > > > #1
                                                    > > > > > and 2. My exp w/ my mobo/bios is that I had to 'teach' it to go into
                                                    > > > > > dual-channel, then populated 3 & 4. See if that gives you a
                                                    > > > > > performance
                                                    > > > > > boost/stability.
                                                    > > > > > mike in fla
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, the65thsquare
                                                    > > > > > <no_reply@>
                                                    > > > > > wrote:
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > Hi Bill!
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > Thank you for your quick reply and opinion.
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > Does anyone else concur on this before I run out and buy a new
                                                    > > > > > > power
                                                    > > > > > > supply?
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > Appreciate all the help. It has been a 90+ hour marathon of
                                                    > > > > > > elimination during which I caught some faulty memory and outdated
                                                    > > > > > > drivers too.
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > Cheers,
                                                    > > > > > > Jon
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > --- In mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com, "Bill
                                                    > > > > > > Kirchmeyer"
                                                    > > > > > > <CCS-Trainmaster@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Please sign your posts!
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > It sounds to me like it could be a power supply issue. Much more
                                                    > > > > > > > common for a power supply to fail than for it to be the
                                                    > > > > > > > motherboard
                                                    > > > > > > > or graphics card. Integrated graphics places a lot less load on
                                                    > > > > > > > the
                                                    > > > > > > > power requirements than running a graphics card.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Bill Kirchmeyer
                                                    > > > > > > > Chicago Champaign & Southern
                                                    > > > > > > > Rockford, Illinois
                                                    > > > > > > > http://www.rockrail.org
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > From: the65thsquare
                                                    > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:10 AM
                                                    > > > > > > > To: mailto:simplycomputers2%40yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > > > > > > Subject: [Simply Computers] PC Problems
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Hi All,
                                                    > > > > > > > I was hoping some of the gurus around here could point me in the
                                                    > > > > > > > right direction.
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Problem: Frequent BSOD, particularly when stressing graphics
                                                    > > > > > > > usage.
                                                    > > > > > > > Start Of Problem: Brownout / Improper Shutdown
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Since Then,
                                                    > > > > > > > 1. Fresh Windows XP SP3 + Drivers installed, doesn't work,
                                                    > > > > > > > Reinstalled XP SP2 (same software setup as before problems)
                                                    > > > > > > > 2. Fresh Memory Installed and Tested with memTest86+ = ok
                                                    > > > > > > > 3. Graphic Card replaced on warranty
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > *System crashes when stressing graphics capabilities. (4-6 VLC
                                                    > > > > > > > video
                                                    > > > > > > > windows)
                                                    > > > > > > > *System much more stable when using integrated graphics on mobo,
                                                    > > > > > > > but
                                                    > > > > > > > still crashes
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > I'm up against a wall because I have eliminated almost
                                                    > > > > > > > everything
                                                    > > > > > > > I
                                                    > > > > > > > can think of, except for maybe a faulty mobo or PCIe slot. Any
                                                    > > > > > > > ideas? Anyone hit something similar before?
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > Thanks for your comments.
                                                    > > > > > > > :)
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > ------------------------------------
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                                    > > > 100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members
                                                    > > > Simply
                                                    > > > Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on
                                                    > > > the
                                                    > > > Internet.
                                                    > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    > > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > ------------------------------------
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                                    > > 100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members
                                                    > > Simply
                                                    > > Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on the
                                                    > > Internet.
                                                    > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > ------------------------------------
                                                    >
                                                    > Visit Simply Computers Tech Support Group and Helpdesk (24x7). Providing
                                                    > 100% free Computer Tech Support since 1999. With over 12,000 members Simply
                                                    > Computers is one of the largest and most active Tech Support Forums on the
                                                    > Internet.
                                                    > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/simplycomputers2
                                                    >
                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >
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