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Re: Disk Imaging Software - Now I'm confused

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  • Rick Glazier
    Thanks for taking the effort to explain what you do. To keep it simple (if possible) I ll pass on most of the backup strategy you use. Others may adopt parts
    Message 1 of 78 , Feb 1, 2009
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      Thanks for taking the effort to explain what you do.
      To keep it simple (if possible) I'll pass on "most" of the backup
      strategy you use.
      Others may adopt parts of that to modify their overall plans.

      We differ on two major points.
      I have ALWAYS backed-up, and/or Imaged from outside Windows.
      Years ago, using a DOS tape drive program, and then Ghost(DOS),
      then the Acronis MediaBuilderCD solution.

      For personal and/or technical reasons, IMHO a Windows system
      is safer to do this sort of thing to if it is NOT running at the
      time. This is an opinion I wish to not debate. People use what
      they like and what works for them. Nuf-Said.

      I think we (I) got off track because ALL the options in the
      BootCD are optional, Verify being on the last page of the
      *wizard* interface.

      The feature I thought you were referring to is likely still
      on the drawing board.
      I can only explain it further with a question.
      Have you found a way to verify an Image file(s) AFTER they
      were burned off to CD/DVD?
      THAT is the feature I was hoping they have finally added.
      (They have mentioned adding it for quite awhile.)

      Thanks for your efforts in getting to the bottom of this.

      Rick Glazier


      --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "vw052053" <vwinterling@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Let me try to clarify by telling you how I organize the imaging
      > process. For several years now owing in part to the falling prices of
      > hard drives I have been investing in larger drives, at least one
      > reason being to store images.
      >
      > In a typical sequence, I will image the OS partition from within that
      > partition. To wit, if the OS is on c:\ then from within c:\ I'll have
      > Acronis do it's thing. In the situation I'm in now, running a dual
      > boot with Vista and Windows 7, I'll image Windows 7 from Vista. I'm
      > doing this only because I haven't gotten around to installing ATI in
      > Win7 yet. Note, I only image the OS partitions (I segregae the OS
      > from everything else) typically as I have other backup strategies for
      > documents, etc. (I store clones on another physical drive from their
      > everyday locations and use Replicator to update them regularly.)
      > Program files I will image only if I want to transfer the entire
      > contents of a working system to another drive.
      >
      > That said, (sorry for being long winded) I always save the image
      > files (usually more than 1 as I split them for later burning to
      > DVD)to another phyical drive. Thus, today for example, I imaged Vista
      > which is physically on disk 0 and is c:\ and saved it to h:\ which is
      > disk 2. I then imaged Windows 7 while in Vista. Windows 7 is k:\ when
      > in Vista and is located on disk 1. I saved that image to h:\.
      > Validating as I said in a previous message with the 9706 update
      > occurred automatically immediately following the imaging process.
      >
      > Clear as mud? Hope it helps to get us on the same page.
      >
      > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Glazier"
      > <rickglaz4742435@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I saw this after I sent my clarification. (Sorry I did not check
      > > again before sending that).
      > > The question I was asking referred to ONLY where the Image Parts
      > > were stored, not were they came from originally or what they
      > > contained.
      > > Any Image file is just a special container file (so to speak),
      > > a little similar the way a ZIP file is a container, but used for
      > > different things.
      > > Thanks for trying to answer.
      > >
      > > Rick Glazier
      > >
      > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "vw052053" <vwinterling@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I'm amending my previous post. I just upgraded to the 9706 update
      > and
      > > > it validates the archive automatically and quickly, although I
      > note
      > > > it seems to take longer to get started, particularly when imaging
      > a
      > > > partition located on another physical drive. For example, when
      > > > imaging my vista partition from vista, it seems to run pretty
      > > > quickly. When imaging Windows 7 which is on another physical
      > drive,
      > > > from vista, it seems slower to get started with imaging and seems
      > > > (slower to perform the imaging task. No data just impression on
      > the
      > > > speed of the image process.
      > > >
      > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "vw052053"
      > <vwinterling@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I've not checked the ability to verify / validate images in
      > another
      > > > > directory. My experience is limited to images in the same
      > directory.
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Glazier"
      > > > > <rickglaz4742435@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Are you saying below they finally added the ability to verify
      > > > > > off-line Image split parts that are not in the same directory?
      > > > > > I heard that was coming. I hope that was what you meant.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Rick Glazier
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "vw052053"
      > <vwinterling@>
      > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I've used each version since ver. 7. I've upgraded and now
      > use
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > latest version. Like Rick and Go2Geo, I find it does what I
      > > > need
      > > > > it
      > > > > > > to do. Image or clone (I don't do cloning), restore, etc.
      > Each
      > > > > > > version seems to add some new stuff-some I use some not.
      > The
      > > > best
      > > > > > > aspect of latest version is it's ability to verify all
      > archives
      > > > > from
      > > > > > > a specific image at a time. Typically, I split them to burn
      > to
      > > > > dvd.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Austino"
      > > > <bob_nj@>
      > > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Basically all I want to do is be able to recover from a
      > > > > disaster
      > > > > > > such
      > > > > > > > as a hard disk failure.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I was leaning towards Acronis and have been reading up on
      > it.
      > > > > > > > Seems like the latest offering from Acronis, True Image
      > Home
      > > > > 2009
      > > > > > > has
      > > > > > > > some issues as can be seen here ->
      > > > > > > > http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=229889
      > > > > > > > I thinks the home version is also considered ATI12/2009.
      > > > > > > > There is a newer build now available, but man, this is
      > making
      > > > > me
      > > > > > > > weary and wary.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > All I want is have confidence in a piece of software that
      > > > will
      > > > > do
      > > > > > > > what its supposed to when I desperately need it.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I've received one recommendation about Shadow Protect,
      > but it
      > > > > seems
      > > > > > > > like there are some concerns with it too.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I'm not a tech or guru and just want to recover from a
      > > > disaster.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Bottom line, can I get some ideas and experiences with
      > what
      > > > has
      > > > > > > > worked for some of you so I can do this one time since it
      > > > will
      > > > > be
      > > > > > > the
      > > > > > > > only chance I have when it comes time to use it?
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Thanks
      > > > > > > > Bob
      > > > > > > > Vineland
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Bob Austino
      Hi Rick Which Media Builder are you referring to? The ISO file was named -- TrueImage9709_multiparam_Standard_english_il.iso Thanks for all your help. Would
      Message 78 of 78 , Feb 5, 2009
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        Hi Rick

        Which Media Builder are you referring to?

        The ISO file was named --> TrueImage9709_multiparam_Standard_english_il.iso

        Thanks for all your help.

        Would it pay me to pull my hair out trying to make a Bart CD too?
        Figures Dell machines are "special" in this regard.

        Do I have a cloud follwing me...



        To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.comFrom: rickglaz4742435@...: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 15:12:08 +0000Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: Simply Computers Disk Imaging Software - Now I'm confused



        Glad everything worked out.(I've been busy and dropped out for a day or two.)Buying it, and then having access to the registered versions sectionof the WEB site AND Acronis technical support seems to have reallyhelped. They stand behind their products, and try to get them workingASAP.I think if you check the version in the running bootable CD youyou "may" find that is an interim build, not yet released publicly.They have done that with me. Out of curiosity, what was thefilename ONLY (not the link) of what they had you get? TIAI never bothered fighting to get the Safe Mode on their bootingmenu. I have multiple products of theirs and some of them addthemselves (optionally) to that Menu while burning with theMediaBuilder section. Funny thing is, the MediaBuilder App needsto be started a certain way to work correctly, or at all.I know what to do (the work-around) and never contacted themabout it due to time constants.Be careful with the brand new features. As others here (and in links)have said, some of the fancy new bells and whistles are "broken".The older basic stuff has been fine for many years.Rick Glazier--- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Austino" <bob_nj@...> wrote:>> I have an update to my ongoing saga.> > I tried live chat on the Acronis site and was successful on several > attempts, and it helped.> That surprised me.> > In summary, I was using TI Home 2009 Trial Version and was not able > to boot from a recovery cd on my laptop> I was also not given the option of "Safe Mode" in the recovery > software.> > I purchased two licenses, one for my functioning laptop (I'm on the > road), and one for the crashed home PC.> > I was instruced to uninstall the trial version on the laptop, and > install a fresh copy of the software, build 9709.> I did that and registered it.> Previously I had registered the Trial Version, but did not get full > functionality from the software.> > Once I reinstalled the software and registered, I was able to go to > the Acronis site under "My Registered Software" and get the plug ins > and "Safe Mode" I would not have known this if it weren't for a post > from another user on a different board.> > I was then able to make a recovery CD from within Windows that > included the "Full Version", and "Safe Mode Version" of the recovery > software.> Previously I was not able to boot from the recovery CD made from > within Windows in the Trial using the "Full Version"> After reinstalling and registering the new download, I still couldn't > load the "Full Version" created under Windows.> The "Safe Version" loaded, but as expected, did not have the drivers > to see my external drive where the image is located.> > I was then instructed by Acronis Live Chat to download the ISO file > for the recovery CD software.> I did this and it booted, loaded, and saw the external drive.> > I then loaded the plugins and made a good image, verified it and all > seems well.> > I'm toying with BartPE at the moment.> I got the software to make the file, but can't figure out what to do > next.> > There's a a folder in the Acronis directory called Media Add Ons > which includes BartPE.> > Now I can't figure out how to add the BartPe add on in the Acronis > folder to the Bart software.> > Slowly it's coming along.> This is just practice while away from home.> When I get back there, I have to install a slave drive, install ATI, > create an image of C:/, and then restore it to the slave and make > that the master.> This all started after a major crash of my homee PC hard drive.> > Thanks for all the help> Bob> > > Whew, that was easy...> > > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, go2geo2 <no_reply@> wrote:> >> > According to the Acronis TI 2009 users manual, page 15: The > installer > > will install the trial version, which will remain fully operational > > for 15 days.> > > > Perhaps you got a bad burn? You could try burning another CD.> > > > "Exclusive Discount - 20% off Acronis True Image 2009> > Get 20% from the retail price of Acronis True Image 2009 by > clicking > > the 'buy now' button on this page and then entering coupon code > > ATIVNUET20."> > http://tinyurl.com/4y8ln8> > > > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Austino" <bob_nj@> > > wrote:> > >> > > Maybe it is the Trial then.> > > That's the dilemma.> > > > > > Do I spend the money to activvate my trial and hope for the best?> > > > > > Decisions, decisions> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "vw052053" > <vwinterling@> > > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Full version.> > > > > > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, Bob Austino <bob_nj@> > > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > I guess the replies lag a little timewise when I get them by > > > email.> > > > > Is it better to go right to the board to get a better > timeline > > > link > > > > to responses?> > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I think a post will be up shortly where I experineced > > the > > > > same thing.> > > > > I had the option to boot to Windows, or the recovery CD.> > > > > Windows option worked fine, the recovery CD option tried to > go > > to > > > > the software, but stops> > > > > at the black screen with blinking cursor.> > > > > > > > > > Are you booting with the full or safe version of the recovery > > > disc?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: simplycomputers2@: vwinterling@: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 14:46:21 > > > > +0000Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: Simply Computers] Disk > > Imaging > > > > Software - Now I'm confused> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to verify your experience I tried to boot my laptop with > > the > > > > recently burned ATI Home 2009 recovery disk. It booted the > > machine > > > > fine. The first screen it showed was "Starting Acronis Loader" > > > prior > > > > to the ATI menu.--- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, Bob > > > Austino > > > > <bob_nj@> wrote:>> > Thanks for the ideas and help Rick and > > > everyone > > > > else.> I'm not offended or anymore confused than when I started > > > this > > > > crusade.> It's a learning process for me, and I enjoy it (When > I > > > have > > > > time for it to sink in)> > So, no worries and no problem.> > There > > > are > > > > several replies in my inbox, so I'll take them one at a time, > > this > > > > being the first one.> > I just tried to boot from the recovery > > disk > > > I > > > > made with the trial version of TI 2009 Home.> My laptop > couldn't > > > load > > > > it.> Just get a black screen with a #sign and a blinking > cursor.> > > > > That was with the full version.> I thought I'd try the "Safe > > > > Version", but true to form, it's not an option on my trial > copy.> > > > > > > I > > > > have my credit card out ready to order two full copies of Home > > > 2009, > > > > but am hesitant > since I'm not sure if it's going to work for > > me.> > > > > > > > > And the beat goes on...> > > > To: simplycomputers2@: > > > > rickglaz4742435@: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 06:11:53 +0000Subject: > [Simply > > > > Computers] Simply Computers] Re: Disk Imaging Software - Now > I'm > > > > confused> > > > When the original poster said below he would > try > > to > > > > find out whatI meant by "spindle image" I googled it myself to > > see > > > > how he wouldmake out. I did poorly that way, too many unrelated > > > hits, > > > > so Icame back and stated it was an un-official term and then > > > spelled > > > > outexactly what I was trying to say the first time.My listing > of > > > the > > > > parts in my "spindle image" mirrors the infogiven in the help > > file > > > > very well. "Spindle" is a term used by theHard Drive people > BTW. > > I > > > > considered it OK to use since that is a majorportion on this > > > thread. > > > > Too many people use the term "drive" and"partition" > > > interchangeably, > > > > so (IMHO) THAT is more confusing thanusing a commonly accepted > > > > hardware term instead.Sorry if using Industry Terms confuses > you. > > I > > > > should have justpointed them to go RTFM like you quoted > (instead) > > > > below.If the OP has any questions, he can feel free to ask > > > > forclarification.In the interests of clarification of my > answers, > > > > I've recently beendoing some Images of single partitioned HDs. > > > > Something I seldom do orsee. Acronis seems to treat them > > > differently, > > > > so, as always, EXACTLYwhat you are doing makes a great deal of > > > > difference. This list seemsto like the "one size fits all" type > > of > > > > answer, and I have too broadan experience base to buy into a > > theory > > > > like that.Rick Glazier--- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, > > > > go2geo2 <no_reply@> wrote:>> There's no such thing as a spindle > > > image > > > > option, nor anything like an > end to end option when using TI. > > To > > > > refer to those, using that made-> up terminology, just adds to > > the > > > > confusion.> > I continue to use TI 10 (build 4942, which was > the > > > last > > > > update of > version 10 - 3/12/07). TI 10 always works well for > > me, > > > > just as I > expect it to, whether I make a disk image, a > > partition > > > > image, or > restore same. It has options that I prefer to use > and > > > > some that I > never use. Later versions have added some options > > > that > > > > are not > anything that I need at this time. TI 10 can still be > > > > purchased but > at limited sites,> http://tinyurl.com/b6fl69 > > > > > > From > > > > TI 10 Help:> "Acronis True Image Home stores a sector-by-sector > > > > snapshot of the > disk, which includes the operating system, > > > > registry, drivers, > software applications and data files, as > > well > > > as > > > > system areas hidden > from the user. This procedure is called > > > > "creating a disk image" and > the resulting backup archive is > > often > > > > called a disk/partition image."> > "Acronis True Image Home > > stores > > > > only those hard disk parts that > contain data (for supported > > file > > > > systems). Further, it does not back > up swap file information > > > > (pagefile.sys) and hiberfil.sys (a file that > keeps RAM > contents > > > > when the computer goes into hibernation). This > reduces image > > size > > > > and speeds up image creation and restoration. > � A partition > > image > > > > includes all files and folders independent of > their > attributes > > > > (including hidden and system files), boot record, > FAT (file > > > > allocation table) and root. > � A disk image includes images of > > all > > > > disk partitions as well as the > zero track with master boot > > record > > > > (MBR)."> > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Rick > > > Glazier" > > > > > <rickglaz4742435@> wrote:> >> > The last time I did > > > something "end > > > > to end" was with ATI10.> > A Vista Laptop via a USB2 drive and > > back > > > > to a bigger replacement> > HD. Done with the bootable Cd, > outside > > > > Windows. > > Only because it always worked and it was on the > > > > MediaBuilderCD> > already. After that I got ver11 and > immediately > > > > replaced that> > with vert12/ATI2009. (Under the less than 30 > > days > > > > old upgrade> > warranty.) So, I never even got around to > > installing > > > > ver 11.> > I've been using ATI2009, but have not tested it "end > > to > > > > end"> > yet.> > I read about the things people are having > trouble > > > > with, but> > I did not get it for that and never used those > > parts.> > > > > > > > > > > They have a new build of AcronisTrueImage2009 a few days > > old.> > > > > > > > > I inadvertently referred to it here before it went public.> > > It > > > was > > > > listed that way at their WEB site at that time.> > Sorry for > > their > > > > confusion.> > > > Note that their third party seller site often > > > sent > > > > an older> > version on a digital D/L... ALWAYS check your > > > registered > > > > products> > account at Acronis WEB site for latest BUILT info. > > > (Even > > > > if you> > bought it 5 minutes ago.)> > > > I use what might be > an > > > un-> > > > official term "spindle image" to> > refer to an Image file that > > > > contains ALL partitions, the partition> > tables, the PRIMARY > > > > bootloader code, the MBR, track ZERO, etc.> > (Some of those > > > > overlap.) It is hard to keep this simple at> > that > > > software/hardware > > > > level.> > Some have said most of the above can be reconstructed/> > > > repaired> > later, but I like to store it "up front" with the > > Image > > > > it goes> > with. (Works that way for me...)> > > > Rick > Glazier> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, Bob Austino > <bob_nj@> > > > > > > > wrote:> > >> > > > > > Thanks Rick> > > > > > That being said, > > what > > > > do you use now?> > > > > > I'll do some research on what > > a "spindle > > > > iamge" is.> > > > > > Take care> > > Bob> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > simplycomputers2@: rickglaz4742435@: Sat, 31 Jan 2009> > > 17:12:04 > > > > +0000Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: Disk Imaging > Software -> > > > > > Now > > > > I'm confused> > > > > > > > > > > > The only way to have > > confidence > > > > in a program it to use it in the> > wayyou might eventually > need > > > it. > > > > In other words, test it from end to> > end.ALL steps, including > a > > > > full restore to a different hard drive.I> > always test that > way, > > > at > > > > least with new versions at least once,and> > have never had any > > > > problems since I figured out the idiosyncrasiesof> > either my > > > > hardware (as in limitations), or things I was doingwrong > (as> > > > > > in > > > > operator error or un-realistic expectations).Generally > speaking> > > > > > > > (and only for myself), I only had problems whenI made partition > > > only> > > > > > backups and expected them to restore and boot.That, IMHO, is > > > > > > operator> > error. I now make spindle images when that ismy > goal, > > > and > > > > have had > no> > problems since. NOT counting when I had > > > I/Ohardware > > > > problems of an> > intermittent nature. I can't blame a > > programwhen > > > MY > > > > hardware is> > flaky.I've used various versions of Ghost and/or > > > > Acronis True> > Image.ATI 9 had problems at first, and ATI 11 > was > > > > said to be sort of> > bad.At least Acronis will release major > > > patches > > > > when they find> > problems.Disclaimer: I have Beta tested > Acronis > > > in > > > > the past, but > have> > no otherrelation to the company. (I was > > > > working with them on Mouse> > problemsin the bootable CDs. My > > mouse > > > > always works now...)Rick> > Glazier--- In > > > > simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Austino"> > <bob_nj@> > > > wrote:>> > > > > Basically all I want to do is be able to recover> > from a > > disaster > > > > such > as a hard disk failure.> > I was leaning> > towards > > Acronis > > > > and have been reading up on it.> Seems like the > latest> > > > > offering > > > > from Acronis, True Image Home 2009 has > some issues as can> > > be > > > > seen here -> >> > http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?> > > > t=229889> I thinks the> > home version is also considered > > > > ATI12/2009.> There is a newer build> > now available, but man, > > this > > > > is making me > weary and wary.> > All I> > want is have > > confidence > > > in > > > > a piece of software that will do > what > its> > supposed to > when > > I > > > > desperately need it.> > I've received one> > recommendation > about > > > > Shadow Protect, but it seems > like there are> > some concerns > > with > > > > it too.> > I'm not a tech or guru and just want > to> > recover > > > from > > > > a disaster.> > Bottom line, can I get some ideas and> > > > experiences > > > > with what has > worked for some of you so I can do this> > one > > time > > > > since it will be the > only chance I have when it comes > time> > > > > > to > > > > use it?> > Thanks> Bob > Vineland> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > >> >>






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