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Simply Computers] Re: Disk Imaging Software - Now I'm confused

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  • go2geo2
    I didn t mean to get into, nor to continue, a discussion of your intent, or your need to display your broadbased knowledge. However, if in fact spindle image
    Message 1 of 78 , Feb 1, 2009
      I didn't mean to get into, nor to continue, a discussion of your
      intent, or your need to display your broadbased knowledge. However,
      if in fact spindle image was/is such a well known, regularly used,
      industry term (in regard to the use of imaging software) then with
      over 4 million Google hits one would think that it surely would be
      right up there in the first 20 or so. But, it's not. I beleive
      that's because, in reference to this topic of disk imaging or even
      partition imaging, it has no absolutely no relavance and is, in this
      regard, misused and misleading.

      Creating your own definition of the terms you use does not eliminate
      confusion, it just adds to it.

      Although the terms disk image and partition image are sometimes
      misused they are the terms used in regard to Acronis TI.

      Your bad experience with partition imaging (your own operator error
      as you had described it) is not indicative of the experience of many
      others (I being one of them) who are able to use TI to create images
      of the system partition (not a full disk image) and then restore that
      partition image and have a bootable system.


      --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Glazier"
      <rickglaz4742435@...> wrote:
      >
      > When the original poster said below he would try to find out what
      > I meant by "spindle image" I googled it myself to see how he would
      > make out. I did poorly that way, too many unrelated hits, so I
      > came back and stated it was an un-official term and then spelled out
      > exactly what I was trying to say the first time.
      > My listing of the parts in my "spindle image" mirrors the info
      > given in the help file very well. "Spindle" is a term used by the
      > Hard Drive people BTW. I considered it OK to use since that is a
      major
      > portion on this thread. Too many people use the term "drive" and
      > "partition" interchangeably, so (IMHO) THAT is more confusing than
      > using a commonly accepted hardware term instead.
      > Sorry if using Industry Terms confuses you. I should have just
      > pointed them to go RTFM like you quoted (instead) below.
      >
      > If the OP has any questions, he can feel free to ask for
      > clarification.
      > In the interests of clarification of my answers, I've recently been
      > doing some Images of single partitioned HDs. Something I seldom do
      or
      > see. Acronis seems to treat them differently, so, as always, EXACTLY
      > what you are doing makes a great deal of difference. This list seems
      > to like the "one size fits all" type of answer, and I have too broad
      > an experience base to buy into a theory like that.
      >
      > Rick Glazier
      >
      >
      > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, go2geo2 <no_reply@> wrote:
      > >
      > > There's no such thing as a spindle image option, nor anything
      like an
      > > end to end option when using TI. To refer to those, using that
      made-
      > > up terminology, just adds to the confusion.
      > >
      > > I continue to use TI 10 (build 4942, which was the last update of
      > > version 10 - 3/12/07). TI 10 always works well for me, just as I
      > > expect it to, whether I make a disk image, a partition image, or
      > > restore same. It has options that I prefer to use and some that
      I
      > > never use. Later versions have added some options that are not
      > > anything that I need at this time. TI 10 can still be purchased
      but
      > > at limited sites,
      > > http://tinyurl.com/b6fl69
      > >
      > > From TI 10 Help:
      > > "Acronis True Image Home stores a sector-by-sector snapshot of
      the
      > > disk, which includes the operating system, registry, drivers,
      > > software applications and data files, as well as system areas
      hidden
      > > from the user. This procedure is called "creating a disk image"
      and
      > > the resulting backup archive is often called a disk/partition
      image."
      > >
      > > "Acronis True Image Home stores only those hard disk parts that
      > > contain data (for supported file systems). Further, it does not
      back
      > > up swap file information (pagefile.sys) and hiberfil.sys (a file
      that
      > > keeps RAM contents when the computer goes into hibernation). This
      > > reduces image size and speeds up image creation and restoration.
      > > • A partition image includes all files and folders independent of
      > > their attributes (including hidden and system files), boot
      record,
      > > FAT (file allocation table) and root.
      > > • A disk image includes images of all disk partitions as well as
      the
      > > zero track with master boot record (MBR)."
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Glazier"
      > > <rickglaz4742435@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > The last time I did something "end to end" was with ATI10.
      > > > A Vista Laptop via a USB2 drive and back to a bigger replacement
      > > > HD. Done with the bootable Cd, outside Windows.
      > > > Only because it always worked and it was on the MediaBuilderCD
      > > > already. After that I got ver11 and immediately replaced that
      > > > with vert12/ATI2009. (Under the less than 30 days old upgrade
      > > > warranty.) So, I never even got around to installing ver 11.
      > > > I've been using ATI2009, but have not tested it "end to end"
      > > > yet.
      > > > I read about the things people are having trouble with, but
      > > > I did not get it for that and never used those parts.
      > > >
      > > > They have a new build of AcronisTrueImage2009 a few days old.
      > > > I inadvertently referred to it here before it went public.
      > > > It was listed that way at their WEB site at that time.
      > > > Sorry for their confusion.
      > > >
      > > > Note that their third party seller site often sent an older
      > > > version on a digital D/L... ALWAYS check your registered
      products
      > > > account at Acronis WEB site for latest BUILT info. (Even if you
      > > > bought it 5 minutes ago.)
      > > >
      > > > I use what might be an un-official term "spindle image" to
      > > > refer to an Image file that contains ALL partitions, the
      partition
      > > > tables, the PRIMARY bootloader code, the MBR, track ZERO, etc.
      > > > (Some of those overlap.) It is hard to keep this simple at
      > > > that software/hardware level.
      > > > Some have said most of the above can be reconstructed/repaired
      > > > later, but I like to store it "up front" with the Image it goes
      > > > with. (Works that way for me...)
      > > >
      > > > Rick Glazier
      > > >
      > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, Bob Austino <bob_nj@>
      > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks Rick
      > > > >
      > > > > That being said, what do you use now?
      > > > >
      > > > > I'll do some research on what a "spindle iamge" is.
      > > > >
      > > > > Take care
      > > > > Bob
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > To: simplycomputers2@: rickglaz4742435@: Sat, 31 Jan 2009
      > > > 17:12:04 +0000Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: Disk Imaging
      > > Software -
      > > > Now I'm confused
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > The only way to have confidence in a program it to use it in
      the
      > > > wayyou might eventually need it. In other words, test it from
      end to
      > > > end.ALL steps, including a full restore to a different hard
      drive.I
      > > > always test that way, at least with new versions at least
      once,and
      > > > have never had any problems since I figured out the
      idiosyncrasiesof
      > > > either my hardware (as in limitations), or things I was
      doingwrong
      > > (as
      > > > in operator error or un-realistic expectations).Generally
      speaking
      > > > (and only for myself), I only had problems whenI made partition
      only
      > > > backups and expected them to restore and boot.That, IMHO, is
      > > operator
      > > > error. I now make spindle images when that ismy goal, and have
      had
      > > no
      > > > problems since. NOT counting when I had I/Ohardware problems of
      an
      > > > intermittent nature. I can't blame a programwhen MY hardware is
      > > > flaky.I've used various versions of Ghost and/or Acronis True
      > > > Image.ATI 9 had problems at first, and ATI 11 was said to be
      sort of
      > > > bad.At least Acronis will release major patches when they find
      > > > problems.Disclaimer: I have Beta tested Acronis in the past,
      but
      > > have
      > > > no otherrelation to the company. (I was working with them on
      Mouse
      > > > problemsin the bootable CDs. My mouse always works now...)Rick
      > > > Glazier--- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Austino"
      > > > <bob_nj@> wrote:>> Basically all I want to do is be able to
      recover
      > > > from a disaster such > as a hard disk failure.> > I was leaning
      > > > towards Acronis and have been reading up on it.> Seems like the
      > > latest
      > > > offering from Acronis, True Image Home 2009 has > some issues
      as can
      > > > be seen here -> >
      > > > http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=229889> I
      thinks the
      > > > home version is also considered ATI12/2009.> There is a newer
      build
      > > > now available, but man, this is making me > weary and wary.> >
      All I
      > > > want is have confidence in a piece of software that will do >
      what
      > > its
      > > > supposed to when I desperately need it.> > I've received one
      > > > recommendation about Shadow Protect, but it seems > like there
      are
      > > > some concerns with it too.> > I'm not a tech or guru and just
      want
      > > to
      > > > recover from a disaster.> > Bottom line, can I get some ideas
      and
      > > > experiences with what has > worked for some of you so I can do
      this
      > > > one time since it will be the > only chance I have when it
      comes
      > > time
      > > > to use it?> > Thanks> Bob > Vineland>
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      _________________________________________________________________
      > > > > Hotmail® goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your
      phone.
      > > > >
      > > > http://www.windowslive-
      > > hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?
      > > ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Bob Austino
      Hi Rick Which Media Builder are you referring to? The ISO file was named -- TrueImage9709_multiparam_Standard_english_il.iso Thanks for all your help. Would
      Message 78 of 78 , Feb 5, 2009
        Hi Rick

        Which Media Builder are you referring to?

        The ISO file was named --> TrueImage9709_multiparam_Standard_english_il.iso

        Thanks for all your help.

        Would it pay me to pull my hair out trying to make a Bart CD too?
        Figures Dell machines are "special" in this regard.

        Do I have a cloud follwing me...



        To: simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.comFrom: rickglaz4742435@...: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 15:12:08 +0000Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: Simply Computers Disk Imaging Software - Now I'm confused



        Glad everything worked out.(I've been busy and dropped out for a day or two.)Buying it, and then having access to the registered versions sectionof the WEB site AND Acronis technical support seems to have reallyhelped. They stand behind their products, and try to get them workingASAP.I think if you check the version in the running bootable CD youyou "may" find that is an interim build, not yet released publicly.They have done that with me. Out of curiosity, what was thefilename ONLY (not the link) of what they had you get? TIAI never bothered fighting to get the Safe Mode on their bootingmenu. I have multiple products of theirs and some of them addthemselves (optionally) to that Menu while burning with theMediaBuilder section. Funny thing is, the MediaBuilder App needsto be started a certain way to work correctly, or at all.I know what to do (the work-around) and never contacted themabout it due to time constants.Be careful with the brand new features. As others here (and in links)have said, some of the fancy new bells and whistles are "broken".The older basic stuff has been fine for many years.Rick Glazier--- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Austino" <bob_nj@...> wrote:>> I have an update to my ongoing saga.> > I tried live chat on the Acronis site and was successful on several > attempts, and it helped.> That surprised me.> > In summary, I was using TI Home 2009 Trial Version and was not able > to boot from a recovery cd on my laptop> I was also not given the option of "Safe Mode" in the recovery > software.> > I purchased two licenses, one for my functioning laptop (I'm on the > road), and one for the crashed home PC.> > I was instruced to uninstall the trial version on the laptop, and > install a fresh copy of the software, build 9709.> I did that and registered it.> Previously I had registered the Trial Version, but did not get full > functionality from the software.> > Once I reinstalled the software and registered, I was able to go to > the Acronis site under "My Registered Software" and get the plug ins > and "Safe Mode" I would not have known this if it weren't for a post > from another user on a different board.> > I was then able to make a recovery CD from within Windows that > included the "Full Version", and "Safe Mode Version" of the recovery > software.> Previously I was not able to boot from the recovery CD made from > within Windows in the Trial using the "Full Version"> After reinstalling and registering the new download, I still couldn't > load the "Full Version" created under Windows.> The "Safe Version" loaded, but as expected, did not have the drivers > to see my external drive where the image is located.> > I was then instructed by Acronis Live Chat to download the ISO file > for the recovery CD software.> I did this and it booted, loaded, and saw the external drive.> > I then loaded the plugins and made a good image, verified it and all > seems well.> > I'm toying with BartPE at the moment.> I got the software to make the file, but can't figure out what to do > next.> > There's a a folder in the Acronis directory called Media Add Ons > which includes BartPE.> > Now I can't figure out how to add the BartPe add on in the Acronis > folder to the Bart software.> > Slowly it's coming along.> This is just practice while away from home.> When I get back there, I have to install a slave drive, install ATI, > create an image of C:/, and then restore it to the slave and make > that the master.> This all started after a major crash of my homee PC hard drive.> > Thanks for all the help> Bob> > > Whew, that was easy...> > > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, go2geo2 <no_reply@> wrote:> >> > According to the Acronis TI 2009 users manual, page 15: The > installer > > will install the trial version, which will remain fully operational > > for 15 days.> > > > Perhaps you got a bad burn? You could try burning another CD.> > > > "Exclusive Discount - 20% off Acronis True Image 2009> > Get 20% from the retail price of Acronis True Image 2009 by > clicking > > the 'buy now' button on this page and then entering coupon code > > ATIVNUET20."> > http://tinyurl.com/4y8ln8> > > > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Austino" <bob_nj@> > > wrote:> > >> > > Maybe it is the Trial then.> > > That's the dilemma.> > > > > > Do I spend the money to activvate my trial and hope for the best?> > > > > > Decisions, decisions> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "vw052053" > <vwinterling@> > > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Full version.> > > > > > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, Bob Austino <bob_nj@> > > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > I guess the replies lag a little timewise when I get them by > > > email.> > > > > Is it better to go right to the board to get a better > timeline > > > link > > > > to responses?> > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I think a post will be up shortly where I experineced > > the > > > > same thing.> > > > > I had the option to boot to Windows, or the recovery CD.> > > > > Windows option worked fine, the recovery CD option tried to > go > > to > > > > the software, but stops> > > > > at the black screen with blinking cursor.> > > > > > > > > > Are you booting with the full or safe version of the recovery > > > disc?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: simplycomputers2@: vwinterling@: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 14:46:21 > > > > +0000Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: Simply Computers] Disk > > Imaging > > > > Software - Now I'm confused> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to verify your experience I tried to boot my laptop with > > the > > > > recently burned ATI Home 2009 recovery disk. It booted the > > machine > > > > fine. The first screen it showed was "Starting Acronis Loader" > > > prior > > > > to the ATI menu.--- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, Bob > > > Austino > > > > <bob_nj@> wrote:>> > Thanks for the ideas and help Rick and > > > everyone > > > > else.> I'm not offended or anymore confused than when I started > > > this > > > > crusade.> It's a learning process for me, and I enjoy it (When > I > > > have > > > > time for it to sink in)> > So, no worries and no problem.> > There > > > are > > > > several replies in my inbox, so I'll take them one at a time, > > this > > > > being the first one.> > I just tried to boot from the recovery > > disk > > > I > > > > made with the trial version of TI 2009 Home.> My laptop > couldn't > > > load > > > > it.> Just get a black screen with a #sign and a blinking > cursor.> > > > > That was with the full version.> I thought I'd try the "Safe > > > > Version", but true to form, it's not an option on my trial > copy.> > > > > > > I > > > > have my credit card out ready to order two full copies of Home > > > 2009, > > > > but am hesitant > since I'm not sure if it's going to work for > > me.> > > > > > > > > And the beat goes on...> > > > To: simplycomputers2@: > > > > rickglaz4742435@: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 06:11:53 +0000Subject: > [Simply > > > > Computers] Simply Computers] Re: Disk Imaging Software - Now > I'm > > > > confused> > > > When the original poster said below he would > try > > to > > > > find out whatI meant by "spindle image" I googled it myself to > > see > > > > how he wouldmake out. I did poorly that way, too many unrelated > > > hits, > > > > so Icame back and stated it was an un-official term and then > > > spelled > > > > outexactly what I was trying to say the first time.My listing > of > > > the > > > > parts in my "spindle image" mirrors the infogiven in the help > > file > > > > very well. "Spindle" is a term used by theHard Drive people > BTW. > > I > > > > considered it OK to use since that is a majorportion on this > > > thread. > > > > Too many people use the term "drive" and"partition" > > > interchangeably, > > > > so (IMHO) THAT is more confusing thanusing a commonly accepted > > > > hardware term instead.Sorry if using Industry Terms confuses > you. > > I > > > > should have justpointed them to go RTFM like you quoted > (instead) > > > > below.If the OP has any questions, he can feel free to ask > > > > forclarification.In the interests of clarification of my > answers, > > > > I've recently beendoing some Images of single partitioned HDs. > > > > Something I seldom do orsee. Acronis seems to treat them > > > differently, > > > > so, as always, EXACTLYwhat you are doing makes a great deal of > > > > difference. This list seemsto like the "one size fits all" type > > of > > > > answer, and I have too broadan experience base to buy into a > > theory > > > > like that.Rick Glazier--- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, > > > > go2geo2 <no_reply@> wrote:>> There's no such thing as a spindle > > > image > > > > option, nor anything like an > end to end option when using TI. > > To > > > > refer to those, using that made-> up terminology, just adds to > > the > > > > confusion.> > I continue to use TI 10 (build 4942, which was > the > > > last > > > > update of > version 10 - 3/12/07). TI 10 always works well for > > me, > > > > just as I > expect it to, whether I make a disk image, a > > partition > > > > image, or > restore same. It has options that I prefer to use > and > > > > some that I > never use. Later versions have added some options > > > that > > > > are not > anything that I need at this time. TI 10 can still be > > > > purchased but > at limited sites,> http://tinyurl.com/b6fl69 > > > > > > From > > > > TI 10 Help:> "Acronis True Image Home stores a sector-by-sector > > > > snapshot of the > disk, which includes the operating system, > > > > registry, drivers, > software applications and data files, as > > well > > > as > > > > system areas hidden > from the user. This procedure is called > > > > "creating a disk image" and > the resulting backup archive is > > often > > > > called a disk/partition image."> > "Acronis True Image Home > > stores > > > > only those hard disk parts that > contain data (for supported > > file > > > > systems). Further, it does not back > up swap file information > > > > (pagefile.sys) and hiberfil.sys (a file that > keeps RAM > contents > > > > when the computer goes into hibernation). This > reduces image > > size > > > > and speeds up image creation and restoration. > � A partition > > image > > > > includes all files and folders independent of > their > attributes > > > > (including hidden and system files), boot record, > FAT (file > > > > allocation table) and root. > � A disk image includes images of > > all > > > > disk partitions as well as the > zero track with master boot > > record > > > > (MBR)."> > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Rick > > > Glazier" > > > > > <rickglaz4742435@> wrote:> >> > The last time I did > > > something "end > > > > to end" was with ATI10.> > A Vista Laptop via a USB2 drive and > > back > > > > to a bigger replacement> > HD. Done with the bootable Cd, > outside > > > > Windows. > > Only because it always worked and it was on the > > > > MediaBuilderCD> > already. After that I got ver11 and > immediately > > > > replaced that> > with vert12/ATI2009. (Under the less than 30 > > days > > > > old upgrade> > warranty.) So, I never even got around to > > installing > > > > ver 11.> > I've been using ATI2009, but have not tested it "end > > to > > > > end"> > yet.> > I read about the things people are having > trouble > > > > with, but> > I did not get it for that and never used those > > parts.> > > > > > > > > > > They have a new build of AcronisTrueImage2009 a few days > > old.> > > > > > > > > I inadvertently referred to it here before it went public.> > > It > > > was > > > > listed that way at their WEB site at that time.> > Sorry for > > their > > > > confusion.> > > > Note that their third party seller site often > > > sent > > > > an older> > version on a digital D/L... ALWAYS check your > > > registered > > > > products> > account at Acronis WEB site for latest BUILT info. > > > (Even > > > > if you> > bought it 5 minutes ago.)> > > > I use what might be > an > > > un-> > > > official term "spindle image" to> > refer to an Image file that > > > > contains ALL partitions, the partition> > tables, the PRIMARY > > > > bootloader code, the MBR, track ZERO, etc.> > (Some of those > > > > overlap.) It is hard to keep this simple at> > that > > > software/hardware > > > > level.> > Some have said most of the above can be reconstructed/> > > > repaired> > later, but I like to store it "up front" with the > > Image > > > > it goes> > with. (Works that way for me...)> > > > Rick > Glazier> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, Bob Austino > <bob_nj@> > > > > > > > wrote:> > >> > > > > > Thanks Rick> > > > > > That being said, > > what > > > > do you use now?> > > > > > I'll do some research on what > > a "spindle > > > > iamge" is.> > > > > > Take care> > > Bob> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > simplycomputers2@: rickglaz4742435@: Sat, 31 Jan 2009> > > 17:12:04 > > > > +0000Subject: [Simply Computers] Re: Disk Imaging > Software -> > > > > > Now > > > > I'm confused> > > > > > > > > > > > The only way to have > > confidence > > > > in a program it to use it in the> > wayyou might eventually > need > > > it. > > > > In other words, test it from end to> > end.ALL steps, including > a > > > > full restore to a different hard drive.I> > always test that > way, > > > at > > > > least with new versions at least once,and> > have never had any > > > > problems since I figured out the idiosyncrasiesof> > either my > > > > hardware (as in limitations), or things I was doingwrong > (as> > > > > > in > > > > operator error or un-realistic expectations).Generally > speaking> > > > > > > > (and only for myself), I only had problems whenI made partition > > > only> > > > > > backups and expected them to restore and boot.That, IMHO, is > > > > > > operator> > error. I now make spindle images when that ismy > goal, > > > and > > > > have had > no> > problems since. NOT counting when I had > > > I/Ohardware > > > > problems of an> > intermittent nature. I can't blame a > > programwhen > > > MY > > > > hardware is> > flaky.I've used various versions of Ghost and/or > > > > Acronis True> > Image.ATI 9 had problems at first, and ATI 11 > was > > > > said to be sort of> > bad.At least Acronis will release major > > > patches > > > > when they find> > problems.Disclaimer: I have Beta tested > Acronis > > > in > > > > the past, but > have> > no otherrelation to the company. (I was > > > > working with them on Mouse> > problemsin the bootable CDs. My > > mouse > > > > always works now...)Rick> > Glazier--- In > > > > simplycomputers2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Austino"> > <bob_nj@> > > > wrote:>> > > > > Basically all I want to do is be able to recover> > from a > > disaster > > > > such > as a hard disk failure.> > I was leaning> > towards > > Acronis > > > > and have been reading up on it.> Seems like the > latest> > > > > offering > > > > from Acronis, True Image Home 2009 has > some issues as can> > > be > > > > seen here -> >> > http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?> > > > t=229889> I thinks the> > home version is also considered > > > > ATI12/2009.> There is a newer build> > now available, but man, > > this > > > > is making me > weary and wary.> > All I> > want is have > > confidence > > > in > > > > a piece of software that will do > what > its> > supposed to > when > > I > > > > desperately need it.> > I've received one> > recommendation > about > > > > Shadow Protect, but it seems > like there are> > some concerns > > with > > > > it too.> > I'm not a tech or guru and just want > to> > recover > > > from > > > > a disaster.> > Bottom line, can I get some ideas and> > > > experiences > > > > with what has > worked for some of you so I can do this> > one > > time > > > > since it will be the > only chance I have when it comes > time> > > > > > to > > > > use it?> > Thanks> Bob > Vineland> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > >> >>






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