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Re: [sig] Re: Beets & red eggs

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  • Susan Koziel
    Hi, Actually the vinegar is also acting as a mordant for the dyes you use with the egg. It also reacts with the calcium in the egg shell making the shell
    Message 1 of 27 , Apr 6, 2005
      Hi,
      Actually the vinegar is also acting as a mordant for
      the dyes you use with the egg. It also reacts with the
      calcium in the egg shell making the shell softer and
      the pores of the egg larger. Soaking an egg in vinegar
      long enough will soften the shell enough that you can
      squeeze it into a bottle (that's how the egg in the
      bottle trick is done). Acetic Acid (Vinegar) has a
      particular affinity for the ions that are in hard
      water (Calcium, and Magnesium) and makes a great way
      to remove hard water stains off dishes, mirrors, and
      anything else.
      This is also why when you have a egg that has either
      sat to long in a dye bath or has been through to many
      dye baths you end up with dye that tends to rub off.
      At that point the pores of the egg are either clogged
      with the dye molecules or perhaps to etched away and
      it doesn't matter what you do to the egg you won't get
      good colouration unless you break down and paint the
      egg.
      Orange is not a dye that requires a vinegar mordant
      and that's why it works as a rinse... I have two
      separate pots of Orange one for dying only and one for
      rinsing.
      If you do really quick dye baths you can get through
      2 rounds of colours (this allows you to do touch ups).
      No colour, yellow, blue, green, orange, red, purple,
      black, bleach (2 second or less - rinse with water
      twice and re beach 2 seconds rinse again with water
      twice), yellow, blue, green, orange, red, purple,
      black. By the second black the black may be smudging
      off... so you use the second round of dyeing to do
      touch up work only... work with a pin to clean up
      lines and such & only do the colours you absolutely
      have to. Sometimes melting the wax off to look at the
      egg and then re-waxing the whole egg is the best way
      to find what touch ups can be done. The pin allows you
      to make really really fine lines on the egg and you
      can actually do black out lining that way if required.
      The reason I suggest farm eggs is because a free
      range chicken will produce eggs with thicker shells,
      these chickens aren't force feed - they run around
      lots and they produce tougher shells. Generally
      chicken farm chickens are feed and raised to produce
      shells that break easily - you don't want that for
      making easter eggs. The thinner the shell the less dye
      it will hold (the larger the pores get with more dye
      baths).
      As for writing with traditional tools... I only got
      a electric kistka in the last year or so. Prior to
      that I used a cast set of kistka - aside from the
      really fine lines I prefer the cast kistka for making
      my eggs. I have two kistka that my father and I made
      out of a bit of tin and some wood... it works almost
      as well as any medium sized commercial kistka, but
      tends to twist around if it gets too hot.
      -Kataryna-who's-babbling-way-way-to-much-about-eggs
    • Susan Koziel
      Hmmm that brings up a point I may have forgotten to add... Putting a boiled egg (yes I am talking of the egg shells being dyed not the egg it self) into
      Message 2 of 27 , Apr 6, 2005
        Hmmm that brings up a point I may have forgotten to
        add... Putting a boiled egg (yes I am talking of the
        egg shells being dyed not the egg it self) into
        pickled beet juice does not result in dying of the
        shell. I had tried that many years earlier when I
        first started trying to use dyes that might have been
        used in period.
        ;)
        I feel I can safely say it's something about the
        vinegar and the alcohol... especially when I say the
        amount of precipatate increase in the bottom of my
        glass when I added the alcohol.

        I'm wondering if the first egg work so well because it
        was still warm and sitting in the pickled beet juice
        before the alcohol was added. The eggs added to the
        dye after didn't seem to absorb as much of the dye.
        -Kataryna


        --- stiobhard <stiobhard@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > i assume you are dying the eggshell and not the egg
        > itsef. it seems
        > the egg white (when hardboiled) would take colour
        > better. but i havent
        > done this. i dont even eat eggs myself.
        >
        > however i made this wonderful polish salad once that
        > included
        > sauerkraut, raisins and apples and perchance some
        > other ingredients
        > ive now forgotten. but one major part was a jar of
        > beet juice (the
        > actual beets didnt get used in the recipe) to turn
        > everything this
        > wonderful purply red. ande it worked quite well.
        > actually most
        > everyone was kind of afraid to try it and its a pity
        > because it was
        > the most wonderful mixture of sweet and sour
        > flavours. and the beet
        > colour was most vibrant on the plate.
        >
        > looking at your experiment im guessing the vinegar
        > was acting with the
        > beet juice. and maybe its easier to dye cabbage than
        > eggs but
        > anyway... i thought i should mention it. is anyone
        > else familiar with
        > this recipe? i am not polish i just happened to run
        > across this salad
        > at random flipping through a cookbook in the
        > library.
        >
        > stiobhard
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
        Greetings ... Never bothered about that. My great-granny and my granny used both (the former sometimes boiled the eggs with onion skins, the latter USUALLY put
        Message 3 of 27 , Apr 6, 2005
          Greetings

          >
          > > But usually we do not boil the eggs in dye. We boil the skins to get the dye, and then let the eggs lie in the liquid for a night. that's all.
          >
          > I've wondered about that. If you were usually dyeing *cloth*, which
          > generally involves simmering the cloth in the dyepot, would you, when
          > you came to dye eggs, do it with heat or without? You get different
          > colors, for instance, if you boil your eggs with the onion skins, than
          > if you soak the eggs in boiled-onion-skin liquid.

          Never bothered about that. My great-granny and my granny used both (the former sometimes boiled the eggs with onion skins, the latter USUALLY put them into the ready liquid/ My other granny made it the latter way also). The point also is in the fact now they (in Russia I mean) usually add Manganese solution to onion skins, to make light mahogany colour instead of brownish one. You may never boil manganese solution in any dish, if you hope to use it again. That damn thing sticks even to glass. That is why my6 granny made the onion skins &manganese OR onion skins dye and simply put the eggs there there. A night for onion skins, several hours for manganese. Something like that.

          And, BTW, I can't say that my great-granny's eggs were of different colour. There's some saturation limit, imho.

          Bye,
          Alex.
        • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
          Greetings! ... BTW, I forgot one more thing, speaking about boiling egs with onion skins or not. Eggs boiled with onion skins (just remember that was done by
          Message 4 of 27 , Apr 7, 2005
            Greetings!
            > i assume you are dying the eggshell and not the egg itsef. it seems
            > the egg white (when hardboiled) would take colour better. but i havent
            > done this. i dont even eat eggs myself.

            BTW, I forgot one more thing, speaking about boiling egs with onion skins or not.

            Eggs boiled with onion skins (just remember that was done by my great-granny, who first saw a gas stove when she was about 50, and the conventional countryhouse stove gives a much different temperature regime, so the orignal technology she reproduced on a gas stove, was god knows how much different) always were coloured inside. The egg white was simply brown on the surface. Only eggs boiled in the dye looked like that.

            Bye,
            Alex.
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