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Ukrainian Rus Clothing

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  • Kataryna Dragonweaver
    Greetings, I just uploaded some pictures I scanned from a book on Historical Ukrainian Costume. These pictures come from the section of the book that discusses
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 21, 2005
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      Greetings,
      I just uploaded some pictures I scanned from a book on Historical
      Ukrainian Costume. These pictures come from the section of the book
      that discusses pre-1800's clothing (aside from the front cover and
      inside page pictures). I have copies of those chapeters of the book
      (In Ukrainian)... if people would like I can scan and post some of
      those pages.
      They are in my folder in the files section of the yahoo group.
      -Kataryna
    • mamainna2000
      ... Hi Katarina, would it be too much trouble to scan some of the text? In particular, I care for pages corresponding to picture #5 in your files. I wonder if
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 22, 2005
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        --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Kataryna Dragonweaver"
        <kataryna_dragonweaver@y...> wrote:
        >
        >I have copies of those chapeters of the book
        > (In Ukrainian)... if people would like I can scan and post some of
        > those pages.
        > They are in my folder in the files section of the yahoo group.
        > -Kataryna

        Hi Katarina,

        would it be too much trouble to scan some of the text? In particular,
        I care for pages corresponding to picture #5 in your files. I wonder
        if she has any better proof of these reconstractions than I saw
        before. Thank you!

        Liudmila
      • Susan Koziel
        ... Will do.. give me a couple of days
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 23, 2005
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          --- mamainna2000 <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:
          > Hi Katarina,
          >
          > would it be too much trouble to scan some of the
          > text? In particular,
          > I care for pages corresponding to picture #5 in your
          > files. I wonder
          > if she has any better proof of these reconstractions
          > than I saw
          > before. Thank you!
          >
          > Liudmila
          >
          Will do.. give me a couple of days
        • Rick Orli
          I would especially appreciate any images of 16th-17th C. womans clothing, that is not of a clearly western cut. -Rick
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 28, 2005
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            I would especially appreciate any images of 16th-17th C. womans
            clothing, that is not of a clearly western cut.
            -Rick

            --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Kataryna Dragonweaver"
            <kataryna_dragonweaver@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Greetings,
            > I just uploaded some pictures I scanned from a book on Historical
            > Ukrainian Costume. These pictures come from the section of the book
            > that discusses pre-1800's clothing (aside from the front cover and
            > inside page pictures). I have copies of those chapeters of the book
            > (In Ukrainian)... if people would like I can scan and post some of
            > those pages.
            > They are in my folder in the files section of the yahoo group.
            > -Kataryna
          • aleannain@aol.com
            It would be nice to see some 14th centiry if there is any. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 28, 2005
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              It would be nice to see some 14th centiry if there is any.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • jennifer knox
              well, i have some images of 14th century moldavian costume (just reproduced it for an a&s entry) i could upload it if anyone is interested? if any of you reads
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 29, 2005
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                well, i have some images of 14th century moldavian costume (just reproduced it for an a&s entry) i could upload it if anyone is interested? if any of you reads german ive got a great book which is about byzantine art but focuses on the slavic areas.
                anya


                aleannain@... wrote:

                It would be nice to see some 14th centiry if there is any.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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              • L. Williams
                Yes please! I d like to see! Lisa W. in Montana well, i have some images of 14th century moldavian costume (just reproduced it for an a&s entry) i could upload
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 30, 2005
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                  Yes please! I'd like to see!
                  Lisa W. in Montana


                  well, i have some images of 14th century moldavian costume (just reproduced it for an a&s entry) i could upload it if anyone is interested?

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Hedwig zum Zuckerbar
                  What I d LOVE to find is Bohemian garb from the late 12th to mid 13th centuries. Every thing I ve found so far is mostly Western European in influence. Any
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 30, 2005
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                    What I'd LOVE to find is Bohemian garb from the late 12th to mid 13th
                    centuries. Every thing I've found so far is mostly Western European
                    in influence. Any help would be great!

                    --
                    Hedwig

                    "Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell them you
                    are, then you aren't."
                    Margaret Thatcher
                  • trishkavictoria
                    Please do upload the images, I for one would love to see them. Trishka ... reproduced it for an a&s entry) i could upload it if anyone is interested? if any of
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 30, 2005
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                      Please do upload the images, I for one would love to see them.

                      Trishka
                      --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, jennifer knox <jeniferknox@y...> wrote:
                      > well, i have some images of 14th century moldavian costume (just
                      reproduced it for an a&s entry) i could upload it if anyone is
                      interested? if any of you reads german ive got a great book which is
                      about byzantine art but focuses on the slavic areas.
                      > anya
                      >
                      >
                    • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
                      ... Ok, have you checked out Srokova, Gothic Women s Dress? -- -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@fiedlerfamily.net Even monsters don t like to be
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 30, 2005
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                        > What I'd LOVE to find is Bohemian garb from the late 12th to mid 13th
                        > centuries. Every thing I've found so far is mostly Western European
                        > in influence. Any help would be great!

                        Ok, have you checked out Srokova, Gothic Women's Dress?

                        --
                        -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
                        "Even monsters don't like to be misunderstood." - J. Von Culin
                      • Cathy or Catey
                        With all this talk about garb, I figure I should ask my Qs too. Anyone have websites or books with pix of 13th/14th C Hungarian women s (men s OK too)
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 30, 2005
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                          With all this talk about garb, I figure I should ask my Qs too. Anyone have
                          websites or books with pix of 13th/14th C Hungarian women's (men's OK too)
                          clothing? How about the same for Mongolian armor?



                          Thankx,

                          Katara





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Tim Nalley
                          Persian manuscripts by Grey. Lots of detailed drawings of mongol era warriors, and an excellent guide to mongol armor in the White Horde. Also some very good
                          Message 12 of 13 , Mar 31, 2005
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                            Persian manuscripts by Grey. Lots of detailed drawings
                            of mongol era warriors, and an excellent guide to
                            mongol armor in the White Horde. Also some very good
                            contemporary invasion drawings.


                            --- Cathy or Catey <daycl@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > With all this talk about garb, I figure I should ask
                            > my Qs too. Anyone have
                            > websites or books with pix of 13th/14th C Hungarian
                            > women's (men's OK too)
                            > clothing? How about the same for Mongolian armor?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Thankx,
                            >
                            > Katara
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >



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                          • Elysska z Turnow
                            Hello Hedwig, I am happy to see someone else interested in Bohemia! We are few and far between! I understand your curiosity about non-western influences in
                            Message 13 of 13 , Apr 2, 2005
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                              Hello Hedwig,

                              I am happy to see someone else interested in Bohemia! We are few and far
                              between! I understand your curiosity about non-western influences in medieval
                              Bohemian dress, and if you are able to find any, please let me know! My interest is
                              in mid to late 14th century but because there is so little in english out there, I end up
                              reviewing the entire medieval period, especially when it comes to costume history!

                              Although Bohemia was an unusually nationalist state of the middle ages (where
                              ethnic czechs were concerned), the cultural focus was directed towards the west,
                              and by extension, the nonslavic. As you are probably aware, the aggressive
                              settlement of bohemia by Germans and exodus to Bohemian German-Law towns
                              during the 12th and 13th centuries also had a strong cultural impact. German dress
                              style, music/literature/poetry, and manners were adopted by anyone wishing to show
                              that they too had power and money. Although there was a lot of conflict and
                              resentment of this, the pretensions of the wealthy were often accompanied by
                              German-style pretensions as well.

                              Prague was a cosmopolitan centre, attracting people from surrounding nations as
                              well as Germans, French, and Italians, all bringing cultural exchange. In addition,
                              the discovery of silver mines in the mid 13th century brought another major shift.
                              From 1250-1412, precious metal production shifted from western europe to Bohemia.
                              The massive output of silver mines at Jihlava enabled King Otakar II to draw 2000
                              marks, or 4 tonnes of silver, per year for his own personal coffers. This silver was
                              often traded for goods from outside the country, importing fabrics and other cultural
                              goods to bohemia instead of encouraging the indigenous production of unique and
                              culturally specific goods.

                              I continue my search for costuming references that highlight the distinctly
                              "bohemian" in dress, but so far the references I have found have shown that
                              Medieval Bohemian dress was consistent with that of other western european
                              nations. In some cases, especially in the 14th century, czechs were very
                              flamboyant, favouring embellished and apparently exagerrated fashion.

                              There have been a couple intriguing little pictures in the anthology of czech poetry
                              which look quite distinctive. Also, refer to the Velislav Picture Bible for the
                              similarities to Western clothing. Some of the art I've seen shows a distinctly
                              byzantine styling, however the clothing remains without the ethnic distinctiveness
                              that contemporary ukrainian or hungarian fashion had. My understanding is that
                              Bohemia's closest eastern cultural neighbour was Poland, and I would suggest a
                              cross-comparison between contemporary German, Polish and Bohemian pictorial
                              sources.


                              Now... on to the References:


                              French, A., Anthology of Czech Poetry . Ann Arbor, Mich. : Czechoslovak Society
                              of Arts and Sciences in America, 1973- Has just a few wee images before each
                              poem, some are fascinatingly obscure.

                              Sronkova, Olga. Gothic Woman's Fashion. Prague: Artia. - this is excellent and
                              covers earlier as well as later women's fashion.

                              Drobná, Zoroslava. Les Tresors de la Broderie Religieuse en
                              Tchecoslovaquie. [Wloszczowski] Prague, Sfinx, 1950. 63 p. plates
                              (part col.), a small volume with about 27 pages of French language
                              text relevant to our period. Plates are gorgeous. this book describes
                              embellishment. I have translated the relevant section on beading in
                              the fourteenth century, not anything further however. it covers
                              secular and religious embroidery.

                              Drobná, Zoroslava. Gothic drawing Translated by Jean Layton. Prague, :
                              Artia [195-]. Line drawings and unfinished illuminations spanning 13th-15th century.
                              Excellent source material, unusual/rarely seen images - including a fascinating
                              series of occupational dress illustrations - 14th century tavern-keeper,
                              bathhouse girl, miller etc etc.

                              Newton, Stella Mary. Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince: a study
                              of the years 1340-65. Woodbridge: Boydell Press; Totowa, NJ: Rowman
                              and Littlefield,1980. 157p. Index and bibliography. ISBN 0847669394.
                              Newton describes regional differences including a long discussion of
                              the frilled or goffered veil and its popularity in Bohemia. - this will only be useful for
                              you to see that Western stylings were well-entrenched in Bohemia by the 14th
                              century.

                              Medieval Costume, Armour, and Weapons
                              by Eduard Wagner, Zoroslava Drobna, Jan Durdik. Dover Publications,
                              2001. This book has line drawings copied from czech miniatures,
                              illuminations and other artwork. If you have been looking at medieval
                              czech art (i have references for that, too), you will be familiar with
                              most of these images, but the helpful thing is that Wagner has
                              organized them into topics - a whole page of belt-purses, a whole page
                              of knives, etc etc, so you can view the variations on this without
                              having to actually do as I was doing before getting this book: tracing
                              the art. Only comment on this is WATCH out for drawings of people who
                              might actually have originally been illustrated as angels (now taken
                              out of context). Their clothes are usually not representative of what
                              was actually worn but rather a fantasy of finery. I usually note any
                              outfit that looks out of place, unusual in length or decoration, and
                              try to find other examples of the same style, shown in a secular
                              environment.

                              Boucher, Francois. 20,000 Years of Fashion - The History of Costume &
                              Personal Adornment. New York: Harry N. Abrams, Inc., 1962. FA RF RM
                              391.09 B75h1 Pretty standard general history of costume. Is a decent
                              introduction to costume history. Divides medieval Europe into
                              western and eastern regions, does not cover east central europe,
                              however. Boucher "is honorary curator of Musee Carnavalet and
                              director of french center for costume studies."

                              With hopes of having helped,

                              Elysska


                              --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Hedwig zum Zuckerbar <honeyfrog1968@g...> wrote:
                              >
                              > What I'd LOVE to find is Bohemian garb from the late 12th to mid 13th
                              > centuries. Every thing I've found so far is mostly Western European
                              > in influence. Any help would be great!
                              >
                              > --
                              > Hedwig
                              >
                              > "Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell them you
                              > are, then you aren't."
                              > Margaret Thatcher
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