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Re: [sig] Gardening question - roses

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  • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
    ... The Dog rose (rosa canina) and the Apothecary Rose (rosa officinalis) should grow in your garden. You can order Canadian stocks from www.richters.com -- --
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 3, 2005
      > I am wondering if there is a period (or close to period) rose native
      > to the Slavic lands that I can plant in my garden. I live in the
      > northern reaches of Northshield (Winnipeg, MB) so I am looking for
      > something more suited to northern climates. If nobody here knows, I
      > would appreciate direction on where to look.
      >

      The Dog rose (rosa canina) and the Apothecary Rose (rosa officinalis)
      should grow in your garden. You can order Canadian stocks from
      www.richters.com

      --
      -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
      "Information wants to be a Socialist... not a Communist or a
      Republican." - Karen Schneider
    • Susan Koziel
      Hi, Actually alberta wild roses (although not period europe) are a pretty good substitute. Roses in period were generally the single row of petals variety (ie:
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 8, 2005
        Hi,
        Actually alberta wild roses (although not period
        europe) are a pretty good substitute. Roses in period
        were generally the single row of petals variety
        (ie: 5 petals). Most modern roses have been bred to
        have multiple rows of petals. I know I'm not using the
        exact terms for this (I don't have my books with me at
        the moment). The rose petals should also have a strong
        scent/taste.
        Rosa canina definately, Rosa officinalis I'm not as
        sure of - since it may have re-bred over the centuries
        to have more petals. I'll look up more tomorrow, if I
        have time.
        -Kataryna

        --- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
        <jenne@...> wrote:
        > > I am wondering if there is a period (or close to
        > period) rose native
        > > to the Slavic lands that I can plant in my garden.
        > I live in the
        > > northern reaches of Northshield (Winnipeg, MB) so
        > I am looking for
        > > something more suited to northern climates. If
        > nobody here knows, I
        > > would appreciate direction on where to look.
        > >
        >
        > The Dog rose (rosa canina) and the Apothecary Rose
        > (rosa officinalis)
        > should grow in your garden. You can order Canadian
        > stocks from
        > www.richters.com
        >
        > --
        > -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika
        > jenne@...
        > "Information wants to be a Socialist... not a
        > Communist or a
        > Republican." - Karen Schneider
        >
      • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
        ... Any idea what species these are? ... Rosa officinalis is the apothecary rose, and it does have a single row of petals. However, the multiple row species
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 8, 2005
          > Actually alberta wild roses (although not period
          > europe) are a pretty good substitute.
          Any idea what species these are?

          >Roses in period
          > were generally the single row of petals variety
          > (ie: 5 petals). Most modern roses have been bred to
          > have multiple rows of petals. I know I'm not using the
          > exact terms for this (I don't have my books with me at
          > the moment). The rose petals should also have a strong
          > scent/taste.
          > Rosa canina definately, Rosa officinalis I'm not as
          > sure of - since it may have re-bred over the centuries
          > to have more petals. I'll look up more tomorrow, if I
          > have time.

          Rosa officinalis is the apothecary rose, and it does have a single row
          of petals.

          However, the multiple row species are actually period; there are a bunch
          of illuminations depicting them. It's the cabbage roses that came from
          China, and some of the other ones.

          You probably want to avoid the peach and yellow ones, as most of the
          roses we are looking at in period are red, pink, white, or multicolored.

          --
          -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
          "Information wants to be a Socialist... not a Communist or a
          Republican." - Karen Schneider
        • Susan Koziel
          ... Rosa acicularis http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/wilderness/wildflowers/wild.htm The damn things grow like weeds around here... and IIRC most of the
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 9, 2005
            > > Actually alberta wild roses (although not period
            > > europe) are a pretty good substitute.
            > Any idea what species these are?

            Rosa acicularis
            http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/wilderness/wildflowers/wild.htm
            The damn things grow like weeds around here... and
            IIRC most of the roses in N.Canada are grafted onto
            the wild rose root base to make them winter hardy....
            hence when you prune your roses too severely you end
            up with wild rose flowers. :(

            >
            > Rosa officinalis is the apothecary rose, and it does
            > have a single row
            > of petals.

            The pictures I have of them have multiple rows...
            maybe it's a variety (sub-species) thing.
            :)

            >
            > However, the multiple row species are actually
            > period; there are a bunch
            > of illuminations depicting them. It's the cabbage
            > roses that came from
            > China, and some of the other ones.
            >

            Cool!
            Good to know. Could you send me references for the
            illuminations. I know a few people here that would be
            delighted for the info.
            -Kataryna
          • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
            ... There are a number of examples of period illuminations showing roses in these two books: Landsberg, Sylvia. The Medieval Garden. (NY: Thames and Hudson,
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 10, 2005
              >
              > Cool!
              > Good to know. Could you send me references for the
              > illuminations. I know a few people here that would be
              > delighted for the info.
              > -Kataryna
              >

              There are a number of examples of period illuminations showing roses in
              these two books:

              Landsberg, Sylvia. The Medieval Garden. (NY: Thames and Hudson, 1995)
              Medieval Flower Garden (San Francisco, Chronicle Books, 1994)

              both of which are cheap and good sources. There are roses on the cover
              of the Landsburg book for instance.

              For more possible references, see the bibliography of:
              http://www.gallowglass.org/jadwiga/herbs/medievalgardens.htm


              --
              -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
              "Information wants to be a Socialist... not a Communist or a
              Republican." - Karen Schneider
            • Rick Orli
              A funiture expert once shared an interesting detail with me, that if she saw an old piece with a carved tulip motive usually it turned out to be 17th C., and
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 10, 2005
                A funiture expert once shared an interesting detail with me, that if
                she saw an old piece with a carved tulip motive usually it turned
                out to be 17th C., and if it had multi-row-petal roses it was always
                18th C. or later

                Wild rose (five-petal) motifs were fairly common pre-17th C.

                This coincided with Tulip mania in the early 17th C. and a similiar
                18th C. rose mania for the new diploid /triploid/ etc. hybrid roses
                that were recently invented or popularized (and required human
                intervention to propagate).
                -Rick
                --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Susan Koziel
                <kataryna_dragonweaver@y...> wrote:
                > > > Actually alberta wild roses (although not period
                > > > europe) are a pretty good substitute.
                > > Any idea what species these are?
                >
                > Rosa acicularis
                >
                http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/wilderness/wildflowers/wild.htm
                > The damn things grow like weeds around here... and
                > IIRC most of the roses in N.Canada are grafted onto
                > the wild rose root base to make them winter hardy....
                > hence when you prune your roses too severely you end
                > up with wild rose flowers. :(
                >
                > >
                > > Rosa officinalis is the apothecary rose, and it does
                > > have a single row
                > > of petals.
                >
                > The pictures I have of them have multiple rows...
                > maybe it's a variety (sub-species) thing.
                > :)
                >
                > >
                > > However, the multiple row species are actually
                > > period; there are a bunch
                > > of illuminations depicting them. It's the cabbage
                > > roses that came from
                > > China, and some of the other ones.
                > >
                >
                > Cool!
                > Good to know. Could you send me references for the
                > illuminations. I know a few people here that would be
                > delighted for the info.
                > -Kataryna
              • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
                ... This was the boom of the chinese roses and grandifloras (and the roses bred from them), I think. Semidouble roses are definitely period; there are lots of
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 10, 2005
                  > This coincided with Tulip mania in the early 17th C. and a similiar
                  > 18th C. rose mania for the new diploid /triploid/ etc. hybrid roses
                  > that were recently invented or popularized (and required human
                  > intervention to propagate).

                  This was the boom of the chinese roses and grandifloras (and the roses
                  bred from them), I think.

                  Semidouble roses are definitely period; there are lots of illustrations
                  of them. Rosa Gallica is a semidouble.


                  --
                  -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
                  "Information wants to be a Socialist... not a Communist or a
                  Republican." - Karen Schneider
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