Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Re[4]: [sig] Ukraine Costuming page

Expand Messages
  • Lente
    don t know why but this just reminded me that I saw a book on _Ukraine Embroidery_ that has a bunch of pictures of the more modern folk dress, I don t remember
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
      don't know why but this just reminded me that I saw a book on _Ukraine
      Embroidery_ that has a bunch of pictures of the more modern folk dress, I
      don't remember if it goes into how the folk dress developed or not but had
      some wonderful designs and in the last chapter or so it had instructions for
      making a shirt with embroidery. since it is spesicfally on the Ukraine
      embroidery it may be better than the general folk costumes books. Another
      book to maybe look for is called _Costumes of the East_ has a bit of text on
      the balkans, casasus and ukraines region, some line drawings and possibly
      some pictures.

      Kathws

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Susan Koziel" <kataryna_dragonweaver@...>
      To: <sig@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 9:30 AM
      Subject: Re: Re[4]: [sig] Ukraine Costuming page


      >
      > --- Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik <Posadnik@...>
      > wrote:
      >>
      >> Well.... First, Ukraine was never my specific
      >> interest. All I have is the well-known book on
      >> costume of Eastern Europe peoples (Moscow, 198* -
      >> can't remember the exact title being at work, here
      >> it is often mentioned as a source reliable but
      >> rather generalized), there is a chapter about
      >> Ukraine.
      >
      > I just thought I'd ask.
      > :)
      > If you manage to dig up the title one of these days
      > that would be great.
      >
      >> Second, Ukraine, being a Lietuvan-Polish province
      >> inlate period, had borrowed much from the Polish
      >> costume. Thus, speaking of wealthy people's costume,
      >> I'd suggest it could include up to 3/4 of imported
      >> items - as status symbols, especially in late
      >> period.
      >
      > Yes, I realize that but because the area tended to be
      > such a mix of cultures I'd kind of like to see how
      > they put the pieces together - and find some primary
      > sources from the area as back up.
      > Anyhow thanks for the info on the webpage, when I get
      > the real book I'll see what I can do about getting a
      > translation & report how it is as a source.
      > ;)
      > -Kataryna
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Rick Orli
      Actually, I would put this argument on its head, at least partially. Polish-Lithuanian fashionable costume, at least for men, in the 15th-16th C seems to have
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
        Actually, I would put this argument on its head, at least
        partially. Polish-Lithuanian fashionable costume, at least for men,
        in the 15th-16th C seems to have originated from Eastern inflences -
        tatar, turk and also perhaps ukranian. Specifically, my belief is
        that the Lituanian rulers in the Ukraine area picked up the common
        local military fashions as their own, which because common
        throughout the grand duchy. Then, later, the Poles picked it up from
        the Lithuanians.

        Generations later it might work more as you say, with the Ukranians
        following the Polish Commonwealth fashions (that were variants of
        what was once a Ukraninan fashion). However, they would not have
        been seen as alien imports, I do not think. Also, if we try to
        speculate where the 17th C. kontuz fashion came from, a good guess
        is that it came from fresh influences again from the east, perhaps
        tatar, and via people who were either Ukranian or serving there.

        Warning, there is a lot of guesswork in my assertions above! Just
        my best guess on how things might have gone (but at least I can
        assure you that I am not a Ukranian nationalism booster.)




        > > Second, Ukraine, being a Lietuvan-Polish province
        > > inlate period, had borrowed much from the Polish
        > > costume. Thus, speaking of wealthy people's costume,
        > > I'd suggest it could include up to 3/4 of imported
        > > items - as status symbols, especially in late
        > > period.
        >
        > Yes, I realize that but because the area tended to be
        > such a mix of cultures I'd kind of like to see how
        > they put the pieces together - and find some primary
        > sources from the area as back up.
        > Anyhow thanks for the info on the webpage, when I get
        > the real book I'll see what I can do about getting a
        > translation & report how it is as a source.
        > ;)
        > -Kataryna
      • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
        ... Well, it seems that there was a set of military fashions that were Eastern-Influenced, and a bunch in the 17th century that were roman/byzantine
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
          > Actually, I would put this argument on its head, at least
          > partially. Polish-Lithuanian fashionable costume, at least for men,
          > in the 15th-16th C seems to have originated from Eastern inflences -
          > tatar, turk and also perhaps ukranian. Specifically, my belief is
          > that the Lituanian rulers in the Ukraine area picked up the common
          > local military fashions as their own, which because common
          > throughout the grand duchy. Then, later, the Poles picked it up from
          > the Lithuanians.

          Well, it seems that there was a set of military fashions that were
          Eastern-Influenced, and a bunch in the 17th century that were
          roman/byzantine influenced, but the pictures I've seen still show a
          pretty standard German/Italian influence in the costumes, but with the
          zupan-like coat as an additional fashion statement.

          --
          -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
          "Information wants to be a Socialist... not a Communist or a
          Republican." - Karen Schneider
        • Tim Nalley
          Got to agree there but differ only slightly in pointing out that the Polish fashions embodied in the dolman, kontusz, etc. were made popular primarily in the
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
            Got to agree there but differ only slightly in
            pointing out that the Polish fashions embodied in the
            dolman, kontusz, etc. were made popular primarily in
            the 16C when Stephen Bathory, former prince of
            Transylvania, was invited to be King of Poland by the
            Polish Senate, an brought his Haduk soldiers into
            Cracow and Warsaw in their "eastern fashions". Also,
            the fashion had started to morph earlier than that as
            witnessed in the Battle of Orsa" painting which shows
            Polish riders wearinga mixture of Western fashions
            populat during the Jagellion Dynasty and eastern
            fashions popular in Hungary and Ruthenia, popularised
            by contacts with the Turks after the Battle of Mohacs
            just a few short years before.
            'dak
            --- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
            <jenne@...> wrote:

            > > Actually, I would put this argument on its head,
            > at least
            > > partially. Polish-Lithuanian fashionable costume,
            > at least for men,
            > > in the 15th-16th C seems to have originated from
            > Eastern inflences -
            > > tatar, turk and also perhaps ukranian.
            > Specifically, my belief is
            > > that the Lituanian rulers in the Ukraine area
            > picked up the common
            > > local military fashions as their own, which
            > because common
            > > throughout the grand duchy. Then, later, the Poles
            > picked it up from
            > > the Lithuanians.
            >
            > Well, it seems that there was a set of military
            > fashions that were
            > Eastern-Influenced, and a bunch in the 17th century
            > that were
            > roman/byzantine influenced, but the pictures I've
            > seen still show a
            > pretty standard German/Italian influence in the
            > costumes, but with the
            > zupan-like coat as an additional fashion statement.
            >
            > --
            > -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika
            > jenne@...
            > "Information wants to be a Socialist... not a
            > Communist or a
            > Republican." - Karen Schneider
            >





            __________________________________
            Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
            Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
            http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.