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Re[2]: [sig] Natena

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  • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
    Greetings! ... Gee... I contacted my biologist friends and sent them the latin name of the plant. You never can tell - that Natena is the simple Lebeda. The
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 12, 2004
      Greetings!

      > I'm glad I read this message.
      > I have Lamb's quarter that grows in my garden (I live north of Ottawa,
      > Ontario) and I had been told it was edible, but had doubts.
      > Guess I will have to check out this book.
      > You never know what you can learn here.

      Gee... I contacted my biologist friends and sent them the latin name of the plant. You never can tell - that "Natena" is the simple Lebeda. The well-known food replicant. Mainly it was added to bread dough in hungry years (all along Russia), but also it is stated as a traditional Finnish "greens", along with stinging-nettle. At least, such is the statement by either Pokhlyobkin or the theses of the scientific conference "National nutrition patterns" I once referred to here. Can't say which one of them or even if they both say so - need to be back home for that.

      Bye,
      Alex
    • Susan Koziel
      Hi, Actually in the world of Botany the common names of plants tend to be quite regional (Both the names lambsquarters and pigweed are considered common
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 12, 2004
        Hi,
        Actually in the world of Botany the common names of
        plants tend to be quite regional (Both the names
        lambsquarters and pigweed are considered common
        names).
        The Latin or scientific names of the plant are
        actually the only thing that distinguishes them.
        Pigweed is the common name for a specific plant
        family, and in some areas it is a also indicative of a
        particular variety of Chenopodium.

        I included the latin name so that you could track
        down the exact plant I was speaking of.

        Both my mom (grew up in Northern Alberta), and my
        Uncle (Northern Saskatchewan) call the same plant
        pigweed, and distinguish it from other weeds that
        you'd feed the pigs. It also happens to be the plant
        that you are calling lambs quarters.
        :)

        Here is the list of common names that are used for
        Lamb's Quarters: Goosefoot, Mutton chops, Pigweed,
        Fat-Hen, and Wild Spinach. My understanding from the
        book I have in front of me (which is the one from my
        orginal email) is that any of the related species of
        Chenopodiaceae can be eaten by humans. But not to
        confuse it with Black nightshade (aka wild tomato aka
        Solanum nigrum)

        Also, all of the varieties of Lambs quarters (of
        which there are many) are imports from Europe, and not
        actually native to North America.

        :)
        It also probably has a lot to do with which area of
        the Ukraine they were from as well as which area of
        Canada they settled as to what they call the plant.

        The whole common name problem is a huge hurdle for
        anyone who works in the field of botany, or related
        agricultural fields... some days it makes me twitch -
        my dad's a botanist and I'm an agricultural
        geneticist, and we have different names for things.
        :)

        I have a reprint of a late 1500's early 1600's English
        Botany text at home... I'll go into it and see if I
        can give you some period info on the plant once I get
        home (I'm visiting my parents this weekend)
        -Kataryna

        PS: a quick modern recipe for the interested:
        Lamb's-Quarters and Bacon
        Dice 2 strips of bacon and fry until crisp. Remove all
        fat from the pan except 1 tbsp, add 1 cup washed
        chopped lamb's quarters leaves. Fry until leaves are
        tender 3-5 minutes. Serves 1
      • Lisa Kies
        X-JumpGate Networks Webmail - Mason City, Iowa: Originating-IP Fresh-water pearls were very popular for embellishing garments in Kievan Rus. Glass beads were
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 13, 2004
          X-JumpGate Networks Webmail - Mason City, Iowa: Originating-IP

          Fresh-water pearls were very popular for embellishing garments in Kievan Rus.
          Glass beads were also popular. Ibn Fadlan mentions that green beads were
          particularly prized by the Rus ladies, but I have not seen that verified
          anywhere else. I have seen blue, yellow, green, black with yellow
          stripes/squiggles, millefiore, amber, black with white stripes/squiggles,
          transluscent crystal, transluscent yellow, yellow with red stripes, etc. glass
          beads from the Novgorod excavations.

          Jewelry used enameling, filigree, pearls, some jewels (rough cabochen cut, of
          course).

          Rus ornament is a huge, slippery subject, but I hope this helps get you
          started.

          In Service,
          Sofya la Rus

          *************************************************
          ***> JumpGate Networks - Mason City, Iowa <***
          ***> Voice: 641-424-5307 Fax: 641-424-5346 <***
          ***> www.jumpgate.net <***
          *************************************************
        • Marina
          Thanks for the further elucidation.  I find all the different names fascinating.  I wonder what the taste differences are between the different varieties.
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 13, 2004
            Thanks for the further elucidation.  I find all the different names
            fascinating.  I wonder what the taste differences are between the different
            varieties.  Guess I will wait till summer and then raid the weeds growing in
            my parents garden (I live 10 floors up in downtown Ottawa - no weeds - gosh
            darn!)

            Thanks again
            Marina


            On 13/11/04 02:00 am, Susan Koziel wrote:
            > Hi,
            > Actually in the world of Botany the common names of
            > plants tend to be quite regional (Both the names
            > lambsquarters and pigweed are considered common
            > names).
            > The Latin or scientific names of the plant are
            > actually the only thing that distinguishes them.
            > Pigweed is the common name for a specific plant
            > family, and in some areas it is a also indicative of a
            > particular variety of Chenopodium.
            >
            > I included the latin name so that you could track
            > down the exact plant I was speaking of.
            >
            > Both my mom (grew up in Northern Alberta), and my
            > Uncle (Northern Saskatchewan) call the same plant
            > pigweed, and distinguish it from other weeds that
            > you'd feed the pigs. It also happens to be the plant
            > that you are calling lambs quarters.
            >
            > :)
            >
            > Here is the list of common names that are used for
            > Lamb's Quarters: Goosefoot, Mutton chops, Pigweed,
            > Fat-Hen, and Wild Spinach. My understanding from the
            > book I have in front of me (which is the one from my
            > orginal email) is that any of the related species of
            > Chenopodiaceae can be eaten by humans. But not to
            > confuse it with Black nightshade (aka wild tomato aka
            > Solanum nigrum)
            >
            > Also, all of the varieties of Lambs quarters (of
            > which there are many) are imports from Europe, and not
            > actually native to North America.
            >
            > :)
            >
            > It also probably has a lot to do with which area of
            > the Ukraine they were from as well as which area of
            > Canada they settled as to what they call the plant.
            >
            > The whole common name problem is a huge hurdle for
            > anyone who works in the field of botany, or related
            > agricultural fields... some days it makes me twitch -
            > my dad's a botanist and I'm an agricultural
            > geneticist, and we have different names for things.
            >
            > :)
            >
            > I have a reprint of a late 1500's early 1600's English
            > Botany text at home... I'll go into it and see if I
            > can give you some period info on the plant once I get
            > home (I'm visiting my parents this weekend)
            > -Kataryna
            >
            > PS: a quick modern recipe for the interested:
            > Lamb's-Quarters and Bacon
            > Dice 2 strips of bacon and fry until crisp. Remove all
            > fat from the pan except 1 tbsp, add 1 cup washed
            > chopped lamb's quarters leaves. Fry until leaves are
            > tender 3-5 minutes. Serves 1
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • Thomas Huber
            Thanks for the Kievan bead answers, that was actually a lot of help. I have some other questions now. First: What kind of clothes designs am I looking at for
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 14, 2004
              Thanks for the Kievan bead answers, that was actually
              a lot of help. I have some other questions now.

              First: What kind of clothes designs am I looking at
              for kiev in 900 b.c.e.? I am not shure what it correct
              for my time period in Kiev (Kyiv).

              Second: I am aslo looking for underwear designs. I
              have some undergarment instructions, but they are
              mainly from the 13th Century.

              Thanks for all your help so far and in the future. It
              has been extreemly welcomed.

              -Bjorn Blundr


              =====
              http://www.meregeeks.com/ .WEBCOMIC



              __________________________________
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            • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
              Greetings! ... It all depends on what direction your persona is looking. Early Kiev was 1) rather cosmopolitan-looking, as 2) it was standing on a very old
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 15, 2004
                Greetings!

                > Thanks for the Kievan bead answers, that was actually
                > a lot of help. I have some other questions now.
                > First: What kind of clothes designs am I looking at
                :-)
                > for kiev in 900 b.c.e.? I am not shure what it correct
                > for my time period in Kiev (Kyiv).
                It all depends on what direction your persona is looking. Early Kiev was 1) rather cosmopolitan-looking, as 2) it was standing on a very old trade route from the (today) central Russia to the Balcans and Mediterranean. It was also on teh weay from the Steppe (Mongolia to Hungary) to European woods. Thus, it borrowed a lot from the Steppe and fom the tradeers that passed it. Thus, steppe (Turcic), oriental (Arabic & Persian), Nortern (Scandinavian & Finnish), European (Frankish) and Balcan (Bulgarian and Byzantian) motifs. It's you to make the salad, just choose the ingredients.


                > Second: I am aslo looking for underwear designs. I
                > have some undergarment instructions, but they are
                > mainly from the 13th Century.

                Afair it's not the case in the 9 century. Underwear was the same pattern wear. Simply two pants worn together, in cold weather. The same with shirts. No bras, of course :-)
                Changes in all that took place later (btw, "undergarment of 13 century" marked the need for it, as the climate changed, which led, say, to blocking of inter-Atlantic routes and desolation of Viking settlements in the New World and Greenland - and in the 9 century the climate was quite opposite, The Minor Climatic Optimum), and (imho + some research) the underwear patterns used to be a little more obsolete pattern of the everyday apparel.

                Bye,
                Alex
              • Danks Cole
                To anyone in or near the Toronto area....there is an exibit at the Royal Ontario Museum called Pearls that has a Russian gown with 100,000 pearls beaded into
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 15, 2004
                  To anyone in or near the Toronto area....there is an exibit at the Royal
                  Ontario Museum called 'Pearls' that has a Russian gown with 100,000
                  pearls beaded into it.... it was most spectacular.....

                  Vlakh

                  [Clip your posts, please. --Moderator]
                • Susan Koziel
                  I d assume that different varieties could have vastly different tastes... Broccoli & Cauliflower both are varieties of Brassica oleracea -Kataryna
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 15, 2004
                    I'd assume that different varieties could have vastly
                    different tastes... Broccoli & Cauliflower both are
                    varieties of Brassica oleracea
                    -Kataryna

                    --- Jane Boyko <jboyko@...> wrote:

                    > Thanks for the further elucidation. I find all the
                    > different names
                    > fascinating. I wonder what the taste differences
                    > are between the different
                    > varieties. Guess I will wait till summer and then
                    > raid the weeds growing in
                    > my parents garden (I live 10 floors up in downtown
                    > Ottawa - no weeds - gosh
                    > darn!)
                    >
                    > Thanks again
                    > Marina
                    >
                    > On 13/11/04 02:00 am, Susan Koziel wrote:
                    > > Hi,
                    > > Actually in the world of Botany the common names
                    > of
                    > > plants tend to be quite regional (Both the names
                    > > lambsquarters and pigweed are considered common
                    > > names).
                    > > The Latin or scientific names of the plant are
                    > > actually the only thing that distinguishes them.
                    > > Pigweed is the common name for a specific plant
                    > > family, and in some areas it is a also indicative
                    > of a
                    > > particular variety of Chenopodium.
                    > >
                    > > I included the latin name so that you could
                    > track
                    > > down the exact plant I was speaking of.
                    > >
                    > > Both my mom (grew up in Northern Alberta), and
                    > my
                    > > Uncle (Northern Saskatchewan) call the same plant
                    > > pigweed, and distinguish it from other weeds that
                    > > you'd feed the pigs. It also happens to be the
                    > plant
                    > > that you are calling lambs quarters.
                    > >
                    > > :)
                    > >
                    > > Here is the list of common names that are used for
                    > > Lamb's Quarters: Goosefoot, Mutton chops, Pigweed,
                    > > Fat-Hen, and Wild Spinach. My understanding from
                    > the
                    > > book I have in front of me (which is the one from
                    > my
                    > > orginal email) is that any of the related species
                    > of
                    > > Chenopodiaceae can be eaten by humans. But not to
                    > > confuse it with Black nightshade (aka wild tomato
                    > aka
                    > > Solanum nigrum)
                    > >
                    > > Also, all of the varieties of Lambs quarters
                    > (of
                    > > which there are many) are imports from Europe, and
                    > not
                    > > actually native to North America.
                    > >
                    > > :)
                    > >
                    > > It also probably has a lot to do with which
                    > area of
                    > > the Ukraine they were from as well as which area
                    > of
                    > > Canada they settled as to what they call the
                    > plant.
                    > >
                    > > The whole common name problem is a huge hurdle for
                    > > anyone who works in the field of botany, or
                    > related
                    > > agricultural fields... some days it makes me
                    > twitch -
                    > > my dad's a botanist and I'm an agricultural
                    > > geneticist, and we have different names for
                    > things.
                    > >
                    > > :)
                    > >
                    > > I have a reprint of a late 1500's early 1600's
                    > English
                    > > Botany text at home... I'll go into it and see if
                    > I
                    > > can give you some period info on the plant once I
                    > get
                    > > home (I'm visiting my parents this weekend)
                    > > -Kataryna
                    > >
                    > > PS: a quick modern recipe for the interested:
                    > > Lamb's-Quarters and Bacon
                    > > Dice 2 strips of bacon and fry until crisp. Remove
                    > all
                    > > fat from the pan except 1 tbsp, add 1 cup washed
                    > > chopped lamb's quarters leaves. Fry until leaves
                    > are
                    > > tender 3-5 minutes. Serves 1
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > sig-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                  • Susan Koziel
                    Hi, From another list I found that Pigweed is also used for Amaranthus retroflexus (aka red root) http://www.ppws.vt.edu/scott/weed_id/amare.htm This, from
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 15, 2004
                      Hi,
                      From another list I found that Pigweed is also used
                      for Amaranthus retroflexus (aka red root)
                      http://www.ppws.vt.edu/scott/weed_id/amare.htm

                      This, from what I've found is not edible.

                      Here's a picture of the edible Pigweed/Lambs Quarters
                      http://www.ppws.vt.edu/scott/weed_id/cheal.htm
                      -Kataryna
                    • Susan Koziel
                      Also here s Solanum nigrum http://www.ppws.vt.edu/scott/weed_id/solni.htm The poisonous one, for reference -Kataryna
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 15, 2004
                        Also here's
                        Solanum nigrum
                        http://www.ppws.vt.edu/scott/weed_id/solni.htm
                        The poisonous one, for reference
                        -Kataryna
                      • Tat'ianna Radokovaia Codlin
                        A picture of it would be wonderful for us poor souls that don t live near Toronto. Tat ianna Radokovaia Codlin
                        Message 11 of 15 , Nov 15, 2004
                          A picture of it would be wonderful for us poor souls that don't live near
                          Toronto.


                          Tat'ianna Radokovaia Codlin


                          > To anyone in or near the Toronto area....there is an exibit at the Royal
                          > Ontario Museum called 'Pearls' that has a Russian gown with 100,000
                          > pearls beaded into it.... it was most spectacular.....
                          >
                          > Vlakh
                          >
                          > [Clip your posts, please. --Moderator]
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