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Kievan Question?

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  • Thomas Huber
    Hello, I am new, so bear with me. I am looking into making a Kievan Over Coat. It is from the 10th Century, around 904-905c.e. I am going to embroider it and I
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 10, 2004
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      Hello, I am new, so bear with me.

      I am looking into making a Kievan Over Coat. It is
      from the 10th Century, around 904-905c.e. I am going
      to embroider it and I also want to embellish it with
      beads. What color glass beads are in style / period,
      and are the traslucent or opaque? Also is it true that
      during this time period Pearls were also in great use
      for embellishing and jewelery?

      -Thomas (Bjorn "Axemoor" Blunder) Huber

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      http://www.meregeeks.com/ .WEBCOMIC



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    • R.J. Clarke
      Greetings! I m glad I read this message. I have Lamb s quarter that grows in my garden (I live north of Ottawa, Ontario) and I had been told it was edible, but
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 11, 2004
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        Greetings!

        I'm glad I read this message.

        I have Lamb's quarter that grows in my garden (I live north of Ottawa,
        Ontario) and I had been told it was edible, but had doubts.

        Guess I will have to check out this book.

        You never know what you can learn here.

        Thanks.

        Gospodar Robert
        R.J.
        audax et celer



        >Natena is pig weed (according to my Uncle, a older
        >Ukrainian farmer).
        >
        >Pig weed is also called Lambs Quarters, fat hen, and
        >it's Latin name is Chenopodium album.
      • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
        Greetings! ... Gee... I contacted my biologist friends and sent them the latin name of the plant. You never can tell - that Natena is the simple Lebeda. The
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 12, 2004
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          Greetings!

          > I'm glad I read this message.
          > I have Lamb's quarter that grows in my garden (I live north of Ottawa,
          > Ontario) and I had been told it was edible, but had doubts.
          > Guess I will have to check out this book.
          > You never know what you can learn here.

          Gee... I contacted my biologist friends and sent them the latin name of the plant. You never can tell - that "Natena" is the simple Lebeda. The well-known food replicant. Mainly it was added to bread dough in hungry years (all along Russia), but also it is stated as a traditional Finnish "greens", along with stinging-nettle. At least, such is the statement by either Pokhlyobkin or the theses of the scientific conference "National nutrition patterns" I once referred to here. Can't say which one of them or even if they both say so - need to be back home for that.

          Bye,
          Alex
        • Susan Koziel
          Hi, Actually in the world of Botany the common names of plants tend to be quite regional (Both the names lambsquarters and pigweed are considered common
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 12, 2004
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            Hi,
            Actually in the world of Botany the common names of
            plants tend to be quite regional (Both the names
            lambsquarters and pigweed are considered common
            names).
            The Latin or scientific names of the plant are
            actually the only thing that distinguishes them.
            Pigweed is the common name for a specific plant
            family, and in some areas it is a also indicative of a
            particular variety of Chenopodium.

            I included the latin name so that you could track
            down the exact plant I was speaking of.

            Both my mom (grew up in Northern Alberta), and my
            Uncle (Northern Saskatchewan) call the same plant
            pigweed, and distinguish it from other weeds that
            you'd feed the pigs. It also happens to be the plant
            that you are calling lambs quarters.
            :)

            Here is the list of common names that are used for
            Lamb's Quarters: Goosefoot, Mutton chops, Pigweed,
            Fat-Hen, and Wild Spinach. My understanding from the
            book I have in front of me (which is the one from my
            orginal email) is that any of the related species of
            Chenopodiaceae can be eaten by humans. But not to
            confuse it with Black nightshade (aka wild tomato aka
            Solanum nigrum)

            Also, all of the varieties of Lambs quarters (of
            which there are many) are imports from Europe, and not
            actually native to North America.

            :)
            It also probably has a lot to do with which area of
            the Ukraine they were from as well as which area of
            Canada they settled as to what they call the plant.

            The whole common name problem is a huge hurdle for
            anyone who works in the field of botany, or related
            agricultural fields... some days it makes me twitch -
            my dad's a botanist and I'm an agricultural
            geneticist, and we have different names for things.
            :)

            I have a reprint of a late 1500's early 1600's English
            Botany text at home... I'll go into it and see if I
            can give you some period info on the plant once I get
            home (I'm visiting my parents this weekend)
            -Kataryna

            PS: a quick modern recipe for the interested:
            Lamb's-Quarters and Bacon
            Dice 2 strips of bacon and fry until crisp. Remove all
            fat from the pan except 1 tbsp, add 1 cup washed
            chopped lamb's quarters leaves. Fry until leaves are
            tender 3-5 minutes. Serves 1
          • Lisa Kies
            X-JumpGate Networks Webmail - Mason City, Iowa: Originating-IP Fresh-water pearls were very popular for embellishing garments in Kievan Rus. Glass beads were
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 13, 2004
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              X-JumpGate Networks Webmail - Mason City, Iowa: Originating-IP

              Fresh-water pearls were very popular for embellishing garments in Kievan Rus.
              Glass beads were also popular. Ibn Fadlan mentions that green beads were
              particularly prized by the Rus ladies, but I have not seen that verified
              anywhere else. I have seen blue, yellow, green, black with yellow
              stripes/squiggles, millefiore, amber, black with white stripes/squiggles,
              transluscent crystal, transluscent yellow, yellow with red stripes, etc. glass
              beads from the Novgorod excavations.

              Jewelry used enameling, filigree, pearls, some jewels (rough cabochen cut, of
              course).

              Rus ornament is a huge, slippery subject, but I hope this helps get you
              started.

              In Service,
              Sofya la Rus

              *************************************************
              ***> JumpGate Networks - Mason City, Iowa <***
              ***> Voice: 641-424-5307 Fax: 641-424-5346 <***
              ***> www.jumpgate.net <***
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            • Marina
              Thanks for the further elucidation.  I find all the different names fascinating.  I wonder what the taste differences are between the different varieties.
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 13, 2004
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                Thanks for the further elucidation.  I find all the different names
                fascinating.  I wonder what the taste differences are between the different
                varieties.  Guess I will wait till summer and then raid the weeds growing in
                my parents garden (I live 10 floors up in downtown Ottawa - no weeds - gosh
                darn!)

                Thanks again
                Marina


                On 13/11/04 02:00 am, Susan Koziel wrote:
                > Hi,
                > Actually in the world of Botany the common names of
                > plants tend to be quite regional (Both the names
                > lambsquarters and pigweed are considered common
                > names).
                > The Latin or scientific names of the plant are
                > actually the only thing that distinguishes them.
                > Pigweed is the common name for a specific plant
                > family, and in some areas it is a also indicative of a
                > particular variety of Chenopodium.
                >
                > I included the latin name so that you could track
                > down the exact plant I was speaking of.
                >
                > Both my mom (grew up in Northern Alberta), and my
                > Uncle (Northern Saskatchewan) call the same plant
                > pigweed, and distinguish it from other weeds that
                > you'd feed the pigs. It also happens to be the plant
                > that you are calling lambs quarters.
                >
                > :)
                >
                > Here is the list of common names that are used for
                > Lamb's Quarters: Goosefoot, Mutton chops, Pigweed,
                > Fat-Hen, and Wild Spinach. My understanding from the
                > book I have in front of me (which is the one from my
                > orginal email) is that any of the related species of
                > Chenopodiaceae can be eaten by humans. But not to
                > confuse it with Black nightshade (aka wild tomato aka
                > Solanum nigrum)
                >
                > Also, all of the varieties of Lambs quarters (of
                > which there are many) are imports from Europe, and not
                > actually native to North America.
                >
                > :)
                >
                > It also probably has a lot to do with which area of
                > the Ukraine they were from as well as which area of
                > Canada they settled as to what they call the plant.
                >
                > The whole common name problem is a huge hurdle for
                > anyone who works in the field of botany, or related
                > agricultural fields... some days it makes me twitch -
                > my dad's a botanist and I'm an agricultural
                > geneticist, and we have different names for things.
                >
                > :)
                >
                > I have a reprint of a late 1500's early 1600's English
                > Botany text at home... I'll go into it and see if I
                > can give you some period info on the plant once I get
                > home (I'm visiting my parents this weekend)
                > -Kataryna
                >
                > PS: a quick modern recipe for the interested:
                > Lamb's-Quarters and Bacon
                > Dice 2 strips of bacon and fry until crisp. Remove all
                > fat from the pan except 1 tbsp, add 1 cup washed
                > chopped lamb's quarters leaves. Fry until leaves are
                > tender 3-5 minutes. Serves 1
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • Thomas Huber
                Thanks for the Kievan bead answers, that was actually a lot of help. I have some other questions now. First: What kind of clothes designs am I looking at for
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 14, 2004
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                  Thanks for the Kievan bead answers, that was actually
                  a lot of help. I have some other questions now.

                  First: What kind of clothes designs am I looking at
                  for kiev in 900 b.c.e.? I am not shure what it correct
                  for my time period in Kiev (Kyiv).

                  Second: I am aslo looking for underwear designs. I
                  have some undergarment instructions, but they are
                  mainly from the 13th Century.

                  Thanks for all your help so far and in the future. It
                  has been extreemly welcomed.

                  -Bjorn Blundr


                  =====
                  http://www.meregeeks.com/ .WEBCOMIC



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                  Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
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                • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
                  Greetings! ... It all depends on what direction your persona is looking. Early Kiev was 1) rather cosmopolitan-looking, as 2) it was standing on a very old
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 15, 2004
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                    Greetings!

                    > Thanks for the Kievan bead answers, that was actually
                    > a lot of help. I have some other questions now.
                    > First: What kind of clothes designs am I looking at
                    :-)
                    > for kiev in 900 b.c.e.? I am not shure what it correct
                    > for my time period in Kiev (Kyiv).
                    It all depends on what direction your persona is looking. Early Kiev was 1) rather cosmopolitan-looking, as 2) it was standing on a very old trade route from the (today) central Russia to the Balcans and Mediterranean. It was also on teh weay from the Steppe (Mongolia to Hungary) to European woods. Thus, it borrowed a lot from the Steppe and fom the tradeers that passed it. Thus, steppe (Turcic), oriental (Arabic & Persian), Nortern (Scandinavian & Finnish), European (Frankish) and Balcan (Bulgarian and Byzantian) motifs. It's you to make the salad, just choose the ingredients.


                    > Second: I am aslo looking for underwear designs. I
                    > have some undergarment instructions, but they are
                    > mainly from the 13th Century.

                    Afair it's not the case in the 9 century. Underwear was the same pattern wear. Simply two pants worn together, in cold weather. The same with shirts. No bras, of course :-)
                    Changes in all that took place later (btw, "undergarment of 13 century" marked the need for it, as the climate changed, which led, say, to blocking of inter-Atlantic routes and desolation of Viking settlements in the New World and Greenland - and in the 9 century the climate was quite opposite, The Minor Climatic Optimum), and (imho + some research) the underwear patterns used to be a little more obsolete pattern of the everyday apparel.

                    Bye,
                    Alex
                  • Danks Cole
                    To anyone in or near the Toronto area....there is an exibit at the Royal Ontario Museum called Pearls that has a Russian gown with 100,000 pearls beaded into
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 15, 2004
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                      To anyone in or near the Toronto area....there is an exibit at the Royal
                      Ontario Museum called 'Pearls' that has a Russian gown with 100,000
                      pearls beaded into it.... it was most spectacular.....

                      Vlakh

                      [Clip your posts, please. --Moderator]
                    • Susan Koziel
                      I d assume that different varieties could have vastly different tastes... Broccoli & Cauliflower both are varieties of Brassica oleracea -Kataryna
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 15, 2004
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                        I'd assume that different varieties could have vastly
                        different tastes... Broccoli & Cauliflower both are
                        varieties of Brassica oleracea
                        -Kataryna

                        --- Jane Boyko <jboyko@...> wrote:

                        > Thanks for the further elucidation. I find all the
                        > different names
                        > fascinating. I wonder what the taste differences
                        > are between the different
                        > varieties. Guess I will wait till summer and then
                        > raid the weeds growing in
                        > my parents garden (I live 10 floors up in downtown
                        > Ottawa - no weeds - gosh
                        > darn!)
                        >
                        > Thanks again
                        > Marina
                        >
                        > On 13/11/04 02:00 am, Susan Koziel wrote:
                        > > Hi,
                        > > Actually in the world of Botany the common names
                        > of
                        > > plants tend to be quite regional (Both the names
                        > > lambsquarters and pigweed are considered common
                        > > names).
                        > > The Latin or scientific names of the plant are
                        > > actually the only thing that distinguishes them.
                        > > Pigweed is the common name for a specific plant
                        > > family, and in some areas it is a also indicative
                        > of a
                        > > particular variety of Chenopodium.
                        > >
                        > > I included the latin name so that you could
                        > track
                        > > down the exact plant I was speaking of.
                        > >
                        > > Both my mom (grew up in Northern Alberta), and
                        > my
                        > > Uncle (Northern Saskatchewan) call the same plant
                        > > pigweed, and distinguish it from other weeds that
                        > > you'd feed the pigs. It also happens to be the
                        > plant
                        > > that you are calling lambs quarters.
                        > >
                        > > :)
                        > >
                        > > Here is the list of common names that are used for
                        > > Lamb's Quarters: Goosefoot, Mutton chops, Pigweed,
                        > > Fat-Hen, and Wild Spinach. My understanding from
                        > the
                        > > book I have in front of me (which is the one from
                        > my
                        > > orginal email) is that any of the related species
                        > of
                        > > Chenopodiaceae can be eaten by humans. But not to
                        > > confuse it with Black nightshade (aka wild tomato
                        > aka
                        > > Solanum nigrum)
                        > >
                        > > Also, all of the varieties of Lambs quarters
                        > (of
                        > > which there are many) are imports from Europe, and
                        > not
                        > > actually native to North America.
                        > >
                        > > :)
                        > >
                        > > It also probably has a lot to do with which
                        > area of
                        > > the Ukraine they were from as well as which area
                        > of
                        > > Canada they settled as to what they call the
                        > plant.
                        > >
                        > > The whole common name problem is a huge hurdle for
                        > > anyone who works in the field of botany, or
                        > related
                        > > agricultural fields... some days it makes me
                        > twitch -
                        > > my dad's a botanist and I'm an agricultural
                        > > geneticist, and we have different names for
                        > things.
                        > >
                        > > :)
                        > >
                        > > I have a reprint of a late 1500's early 1600's
                        > English
                        > > Botany text at home... I'll go into it and see if
                        > I
                        > > can give you some period info on the plant once I
                        > get
                        > > home (I'm visiting my parents this weekend)
                        > > -Kataryna
                        > >
                        > > PS: a quick modern recipe for the interested:
                        > > Lamb's-Quarters and Bacon
                        > > Dice 2 strips of bacon and fry until crisp. Remove
                        > all
                        > > fat from the pan except 1 tbsp, add 1 cup washed
                        > > chopped lamb's quarters leaves. Fry until leaves
                        > are
                        > > tender 3-5 minutes. Serves 1
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > sig-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                      • Susan Koziel
                        Hi, From another list I found that Pigweed is also used for Amaranthus retroflexus (aka red root) http://www.ppws.vt.edu/scott/weed_id/amare.htm This, from
                        Message 11 of 15 , Nov 15, 2004
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                          Hi,
                          From another list I found that Pigweed is also used
                          for Amaranthus retroflexus (aka red root)
                          http://www.ppws.vt.edu/scott/weed_id/amare.htm

                          This, from what I've found is not edible.

                          Here's a picture of the edible Pigweed/Lambs Quarters
                          http://www.ppws.vt.edu/scott/weed_id/cheal.htm
                          -Kataryna
                        • Susan Koziel
                          Also here s Solanum nigrum http://www.ppws.vt.edu/scott/weed_id/solni.htm The poisonous one, for reference -Kataryna
                          Message 12 of 15 , Nov 15, 2004
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                            Also here's
                            Solanum nigrum
                            http://www.ppws.vt.edu/scott/weed_id/solni.htm
                            The poisonous one, for reference
                            -Kataryna
                          • Tat'ianna Radokovaia Codlin
                            A picture of it would be wonderful for us poor souls that don t live near Toronto. Tat ianna Radokovaia Codlin
                            Message 13 of 15 , Nov 15, 2004
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                              A picture of it would be wonderful for us poor souls that don't live near
                              Toronto.


                              Tat'ianna Radokovaia Codlin


                              > To anyone in or near the Toronto area....there is an exibit at the Royal
                              > Ontario Museum called 'Pearls' that has a Russian gown with 100,000
                              > pearls beaded into it.... it was most spectacular.....
                              >
                              > Vlakh
                              >
                              > [Clip your posts, please. --Moderator]
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