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Re: Comments on a possible name

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  • mieszko966
    ... Everything you say is more or less true (at least for late periods), My mistake. I must have misread the original post. ... seem a bit artificial to me (as
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 24, 2004
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      --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, <goldschp@t...> wrote:
      > > > Double given names are rare, but the usual order in Russian is
      > > Christian

      > Michael: I fail to see how you are "disagreeing" with me.
      Everything you say is more or less true (at least for late periods),

      My mistake. I must have misread the original post.

      >Patronymics are most commonly found in court records and always
      seem a bit artificial to me (as if the clerk added them to the
      record). Of course, none of this tells us much about how they were
      referred to _orally_. We have no records of that at all.


      I believe they would have used the diminuative of one's name, for
      example, if a peasant was given Mieczyslaw as his baptismal name, he
      would always be known as Mietek (a boy's name) by his superiors. The
      patronymic was usually recorded by the village priest.

      > It does occur to me that folks may not know where to find my
      articles, so let me drop in the URL here since I'm tooting my horn
      pretty loudly:
      >
      > http://www.goldschp.net/archive/archive.html

      Your site is very informative, thank you for the link.

      Michael Grocki
    • A Irinevna
      [Edited by moderator. Please clip your posts. Thank you so much for your comments. They have been very helpful. I am looking at the time period of around 1000
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 30, 2004
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        [Edited by moderator. Please clip your posts.

        Thank you so much for your comments. They have been very helpful.

        I am looking at the time period of around 1000 AD Kievan Rus. I understand that this was the time before Christianity had a firm hold in Russia. If I am correct, I assume that I may have a non-Christian Russian name.

        Is this so? Is it correct to have a non-Christian first name (Afanasiia) and a byname (how would I show that I am from Kiev)?

        Thanks so much,
        Amy
      • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
        Greetings! ... Afanasia is by no means a no-Christian name for a Russian. All f-words were then borrowed from Greek (or Latin, but mainly that was later). And
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 30, 2004
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          Greetings!

          > I am looking at the time period of around 1000 AD Kievan Rus. I understand that this was the time before Christianity had a firm hold in Russia. If I am correct, I assume that I may have a non-Christian Russian name.
          >
          > Is this so? Is it correct to have a non-Christian first name (Afanasiia) and a byname (how would I show that I am from Kiev)?

          Afanasia is by no means a no-Christian name for a Russian. All f-words were then borrowed from Greek (or Latin, but mainly that was later). And the borrowings of that time dealt with the Church only, no scientific vocabulary yet, no political terms. Thus, when you see a f-name in Russian, be 101 percent sure it's a name from a Christian calendar.

          And, BTW, Christianity held a firm hold on Russia no sooner than the reign of Ivan IV and even Alexey Mikhailovich (~50 years OOP). Yet in 1480 the tsar (the former) addressed the Church with the 100-chapter reproach which contained 100 why-questions on multiple pagan (heathen, I'd say) rites and habits of the Russians. The Church held the 100-Chapter Council on that.

          And yet in late 1000s you could see the pagan priests preaching in Kiev and Chernigov streets.


          Bye,
          Alex.
        • Paul W. Goldschmidt
          ... Alexey is correct about Afanasiia. [Native English speakers can have a chuckle over the Church and f-words. ... Russian (non-Xian) names tend to be ones
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 31, 2004
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            At 10:44 AM 8/31/2004 +0400, you wrote:
            > > Is this so? Is it correct to have a non-Christian first name
            > (Afanasiia) and a byname (how would I show that I am from Kiev)?
            >
            >Afanasia is by no means a no-Christian name for a Russian. All f-words
            >were then borrowed from Greek (or Latin, but mainly that was later). And
            >the borrowings of that time dealt with the Church only, no scientific
            >vocabulary yet, no political terms. Thus, when you see a f-name in
            >Russian, be 101 percent sure it's a name from a Christian calendar.

            Alexey is correct about Afanasiia.

            [Native English speakers can have a chuckle over the Church and "f-words."
            :) (Alexey: you tripped over an amusing joke by mistake).]

            Russian (non-Xian) names tend to be ones like Bogdana, Liudmila, and
            Olga. Many of them have Norse roots. Others come from other local
            tribes. Christian names can be found in Lives of the Saints (although the
            Orthodox list is longer than the Catholics).

            -- Paul
          • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
            Greetings! ... My policies are that of Humpty Dumpty: the word means what I want it to mean :-). ... And of course there s a hierarchy of names: no merchant or
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 1, 2004
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              Greetings!

              > >Afanasia is by no means a no-Christian name for a Russian. All f-words
              > >were then borrowed from Greek (or Latin, but mainly that was later). And
              > >the borrowings of that time dealt with the Church only, no scientific
              > >vocabulary yet, no political terms. Thus, when you see a f-name in
              > >Russian, be 101 percent sure it's a name from a Christian calendar.
              >
              > Alexey is correct about Afanasiia.
              >
              > [Native English speakers can have a chuckle over the Church and "f-words."
              > :) (Alexey: you tripped over an amusing joke by mistake).]

              My policies are that of Humpty Dumpty: the word means what I want it to mean :-).

              > Russian (non-Xian) names tend to be ones like Bogdana, Liudmila, and
              > Olga. Many of them have Norse roots. Others come from other local
              > tribes. Christian names can be found in Lives of the Saints (although the
              > Orthodox list is longer than the Catholics).
              And of course there's a hierarchy of names: no merchant or jentry could call his children Vladimir, Olga or Svyatoslav.

              Bye,
              Alex.
            • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
              ... Yes, a kind Polish brewer and chemical engineer once wrote to me and pointed out that the name Jadwiga wasn t used outside the Piast family until at least
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 1, 2004
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                > > Russian (non-Xian) names tend to be ones like Bogdana, Liudmila, and
                > > Olga. Many of them have Norse roots. Others come from other local
                > > tribes. Christian names can be found in Lives of the Saints (although the
                > > Orthodox list is longer than the Catholics).
                > And of course there's a hierarchy of names: no merchant or jentry could call his children Vladimir, Olga or Svyatoslav.

                Yes, a kind Polish brewer and chemical engineer once wrote to me and
                pointed out that the name Jadwiga wasn't used outside the Piast family
                until at least the 16th century. *sigh*

                --
                -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
                "If you have no faith in yourself, then have faith in the things
                you call truth. You know what must be done. You may not have courage
                or trust or understanding or the will to do it, but you know what must
                be done. You can't turn back. There is no answer behind you. You
                fear what you cannot name. So look at it and find a name for it.
                Turn your face forward and learn. Do what must be done." - McKillip
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