Re: [sig] Slavic pantheons etc.
> Now, I'm ready to bite the bullet and prepare a "primer" on Slavic deities,Hurray for Alistair! Thank you!
> using information that CAN be substantiated - i.e. which comes from
> archaeological and written sources, not from folklore or romaticism. For
> each deity I shall also be including details of known/demonstrable 'range',
> and primary sources where known. When it's done, I'll put it up with the
> miscellany of Slavic-related stuff on my website.
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
"I don't want to claim that God is on our side. As Abraham Lincoln told
us, I want to pray humbly that we are on God's side." - John Kerry
- Pat -
> we have a Master list in our file sectionI assume that this refers to the list of "Slavic spirits", which was
> we've been compiling over a long time,
the nearest equivalent that I could find. While interesting, this
list draws on some websites which I would regard as being of very
dubious quality, and unfortunately makes no references to primary
source material at all :-(
To take an example, the entry for Jesza is:
Jesza [Pol] 6
- celestial spirit
- male 6
- sky 6
- equates to Celtic Esus 6
aka Iesse 6
aka Jessis 6
The sole (and no longer extant!) reference cited here is:
Slavic Home Page Jeff Day
The work of Jan DLugosz, writing in the 15th century, however, claims
that Jesza is no mere spirit, but the supreme deity of the Polish
pantheon! Granted that Dlugosz is regarded by many scholars as being
an unreliable source who made up information to "fill in the gaps" of
his knowledge, but the name of Jesza is at least also mentioned by a
number of early 15th century ecclesiastical sources, where the
complaint is that he is still being worshipped around Easter, "when
after all Christians are supposed to revere God".
Another problem is the association of this "celestial spirit"
relating to the sky with Esus, a Gaulish deity linked to tree
This isn't meant as criticism - but rather as an example of how poor
referencing, and possibly poor vetting of sources, makes everyone's
lives so much more difficult...
> good luck all the same.I shall need it ;-)
> I see your reasoning here, but isn't this perhapsTo some extent yes, but... the fundamental question is reliability. I
> a rather modern division?
would define a deity (very crudely!) as a being worshipped in a
sacred precinct/grove/temple, rather than at a domestic altar (for
example). These are the deities who are more likely to enter the
written (and of course archaeological) records.
My personal opinion is that information regarding other 'lesser'
beings is FAR more susceptible to distortion through the oral
tradition, folklore and ultimately romaticism.
I am quite happy to agree to disagree with anyone else about my
criteria... but I doubt I shall be changing my approach!
> old friends Yarilo, Kupalo and Kostroma/Kostrubunko.Well now, this is where we start running into problems.
My 'Encyklopedie slovanskych bohu a mytu', for example, has Kupalo as
the name of a *ceremony/ritual* of bathing, not a deity or other
being, and the Kostroma as the name of a totem thrown into the water,
and again not of a deity or other being. Just a thought.
> That said, I'm surprised you've include Simargl, orRussian Primary Chronicle, I believe: worhsipped at Kieve c.980. Name
> is this my modern over-classifying mind at work?
probably related to the Iranian Senmurva/Simurga. Some see the root
as Sedmuraglav ('7-headed') however, while others believe that there
were originally two deities, Sem (protector of cattle) and Rgl
(protector of grain), and justify their arguments from placenames
like Rgielsko and Siemowit in Poland.
> It may prove more involved than you expect!I am aiming at a basic primer, not a comprehensive encyclopedia!
Besides, I like stir up a little controversy now and then, it wakes
people up! *evil grin*
- Jadwiga/Jenne writes
> Thank you!I haven't done it yet! ;-)
And as Rick says, it's a very slippery subject... As I said to Ben,
I'm only aiming at a basic primer, not a comprehensive encyclopedia -
and I'm sure that many will be dissatisified with the results!
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Alastair Millar" <alastair@i...> wrote:
> Pat -I assume that this refers to the list of "Slavic spirits", which
> the nearest equivalent that I could find. While interesting, this*(snip)
> list draws on some websites which I would regard as being of very
> dubious quality, and unfortunately makes no references to primary
> source material at all :-(
> This isn't meant as criticism - but rather as an example of howpoor
> referencing, and possibly poor vetting of sources, makeseveryone's
> lives so much more difficult...Hello Alastair,
No problem at all..that's why I invited someone who has a stronger
grasp of Archeology or Anthropology onto the list. Of course, I am
not the sole writer of the list, and I'd appreciate these previous
commments on that list, to point this out..and to challenge that
scholarship of those that are contributing. Thanks for the comments,
- Nenad writes
> Am I wrong or I not saw Vesna in your first message?You are correct - it was not there.
The reason for this is very simple: no information! If you have some, I
would of course be interested in hearing it - but with references/sources,
Alastair Millar BSc (Hons) - http://www.skriptorium.info
Translation & Consultancy for the Heritage Industry
P.O. Box 11, CZ 413 01 Roudnice, Czech Republic
Tel.: +420.607.993.041, Fax.: +420.416.832.090