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Irena Turnau

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  • ssaucer@juno.com
    Turnau seems to be about the only author that deals with Polish costume in the English language. Are there others? Is your translation of Polski Ubior do 1864
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 8, 2004
      Turnau seems to be about the only author that deals with Polish costume in the English language.
      Are there others?
      Is your translation of Polski Ubior do 1864 Roku available commercially?
      Ilijana Krakowska

      <From: "Rick Orli" <orlirva@...>
      <When I translated the somewhat academic Polski Ubior do 1864 Roku
      <(Polish costume) [snip] A resource I did not have but wish I did was <Turnau's Polish dictionary of historic costume terminology
      <(Turnau, Irena) It is in polish but I expect that the early <terminology would be very similiar in both languages. Your <translators might find it useful. -Rick
    • Rick Orli
      I tried to contact (without luck) the copyright owner ( the old soviet era publishing house) to see if I could get their support and permission to publish the
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 9, 2004
        I tried to contact (without luck) the copyright owner ( the old
        soviet era publishing house) to see if I could get their support and
        permission to publish the full book translation (at this point I
        only have the 17th C. chapters finished, about a third of the
        book ). The author Magdalena Bartkiewicz is still a working
        professor at the university of Warclaw and I did talk to her, she
        supports the project. I should try again. I suppose I could put it
        out on the web as an 'unauthorized translation' but I thought it
        would be good to have a paper product with illustrations, that
        libraries could have on their shelves, etc.

        I also just finished a translation of POLSKIE UBIORY WOJSKOWE z XVI
        i XVII w. ) By ZOFIA STEFAÑSKA (polish military dress)- it is being
        proofed. That will be posted.
        -Rick
        --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "ssaucer@j..." <ssaucer@j...> wrote:
        >
        > Turnau seems to be about the only author that deals with Polish
        costume in the English language.
        > Are there others?
        > Is your translation of Polski Ubior do 1864 Roku available
        commercially?
        > Ilijana Krakowska
        >
        > <From: "Rick Orli" <orlirva@y...>
        > <When I translated the somewhat academic Polski Ubior do 1864 Roku
        > <(Polish costume) [snip] A resource I did not have but wish I did
        was <Turnau's Polish dictionary of historic costume terminology
        > <(Turnau, Irena) It is in polish but I expect that the early
        <terminology would be very similiar in both languages. Your
        <translators might find it useful. -Rick
      • Paul W. Goldschmidt
        What is the copyright date on the book? Prior to 1980, most of the EE countries were not signatories to the Copyright and they did not recognize our
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 9, 2004
          What is the copyright date on the book? Prior to 1980, most of the EE
          countries were not signatories to the Copyright and they did not recognize
          our intellectual property rights so we didn't have to honor theirs.

          If you've got the author's blessings, I'd say you satisfied the ethical angle .

          And if you're not planning to make a penny off of the translation, it
          really wouldn't be worth anyone's time to sue you.

          No, I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Select last night. :>

          -- Paul


          At 01:54 PM 7/9/2004 +0000, you wrote:
          >I tried to contact (without luck) the copyright owner ( the old
          >soviet era publishing house) to see if I could get their support and
          >permission to publish the full book translation (at this point I
          >only have the 17th C. chapters finished, about a third of the
          >book ). The author Magdalena Bartkiewicz is still a working
          >professor at the university of Warclaw and I did talk to her, she
          >supports the project. I should try again. I suppose I could put it
          >out on the web as an 'unauthorized translation' but I thought it
          >would be good to have a paper product with illustrations, that
          >libraries could have on their shelves, etc.
        • Tim Nalley
          Rik, You re the Whip! I always wanted to read the other works of Turnau and Bartkiewicz, well, looking at her book was impressive but I wonder how much Soviet
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 9, 2004
            Rik,
            You're the Whip! I always wanted to read the other
            works of Turnau and Bartkiewicz, well, looking at her
            book was impressive but I wonder how much Soviet era
            academic/political priorities have influenced both
            works, and thier validity as historical secondary
            docs. Got any ideas on that?
            'dak



            --- Rick Orli <orlirva@...> wrote:
            > I tried to contact (without luck) the copyright
            > owner ( the old
            > soviet era publishing house) to see if I could get
            > their support and
            > permission to publish the full book translation (at
            > this point I
            > only have the 17th C. chapters finished, about a
            > third of the
            > book ). The author Magdalena Bartkiewicz is still a
            > working
            > professor at the university of Warclaw and I did
            > talk to her, she
            > supports the project. I should try again. I
            > suppose I could put it
            > out on the web as an 'unauthorized translation' but
            > I thought it
            > would be good to have a paper product with
            > illustrations, that
            > libraries could have on their shelves, etc.
            >
            > I also just finished a translation of POLSKIE UBIORY
            > WOJSKOWE z XVI
            > i XVII w. ) By ZOFIA STEFA�SKA (polish military
            > dress)- it is being
            > proofed. That will be posted.
            > -Rick
            > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "ssaucer@j..."
            > <ssaucer@j...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Turnau seems to be about the only author that
            > deals with Polish
            > costume in the English language.
            > > Are there others?
            > > Is your translation of Polski Ubior do 1864 Roku
            > available
            > commercially?
            > > Ilijana Krakowska
            > >
            > > <From: "Rick Orli" <orlirva@y...>
            > > <When I translated the somewhat academic Polski
            > Ubior do 1864 Roku
            > > <(Polish costume) [snip] A resource I did not have
            > but wish I did
            > was <Turnau's Polish dictionary of historic costume
            > terminology
            > > <(Turnau, Irena) It is in polish but I expect that
            > the early
            > <terminology would be very similiar in both
            > languages. Your
            > <translators might find it useful. -Rick
            >
            >




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          • Marilee Humason
            Rick, you are a God and we worship at your shrine!!! Any and all translations welcome here!!!!! Thanks for sharing!! Baroness Anastasia
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 9, 2004
              Rick,
              you are a God and we worship at your shrine!!!
              Any and all translations welcome here!!!!!

              Thanks for sharing!!
              Baroness Anastasia


              --- Rick Orli <orlirva@...> wrote:
              > I tried to contact (without luck) the copyright
              > owner ( the old
              > soviet era publishing house) to see if I could get
              > their support and
              > permission to publish the full book translation (at
              > this point I
              > only have the 17th C. chapters finished, about a
              > third of the
              > book ). The author Magdalena Bartkiewicz is still a
              > working
              > professor at the university of Warclaw and I did
              > talk to her, she
              > supports the project. I should try again. I
              > suppose I could put it
              > out on the web as an 'unauthorized translation' but
              > I thought it
              > would be good to have a paper product with
              > illustrations, that
              > libraries could have on their shelves, etc.
              >
              > I also just finished a translation of POLSKIE UBIORY
              > WOJSKOWE z XVI
              > i XVII w. ) By ZOFIA STEFA�SKA (polish military
              > dress)- it is being
              > proofed. That will be posted.
              > -Rick
              > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "ssaucer@j..."
              > <ssaucer@j...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Turnau seems to be about the only author that
              > deals with Polish
              > costume in the English language.
              > > Are there others?
              > > Is your translation of Polski Ubior do 1864 Roku
              > available
              > commercially?
              > > Ilijana Krakowska
              > >
              > > <From: "Rick Orli" <orlirva@y...>
              > > <When I translated the somewhat academic Polski
              > Ubior do 1864 Roku
              > > <(Polish costume) [snip] A resource I did not have
              > but wish I did
              > was <Turnau's Polish dictionary of historic costume
              > terminology
              > > <(Turnau, Irena) It is in polish but I expect that
              > the early
              > <terminology would be very similiar in both
              > languages. Your
              > <translators might find it useful. -Rick
              >
              >
            • Susan Koziel
              Rick, If you are interested, a couple of my friends own a small scale book publisher that prints translations of old books. They may have more luck contacting
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 9, 2004
                Rick,
                If you are interested, a couple of my friends own a
                small scale book publisher that prints translations of
                old books. They may have more luck contacting the
                publisher and arranging for copyright transfer.
                If you contact me off the list I will provide you with
                their contact information.
                -Kataryna

                --- Rick Orli <orlirva@...> wrote:
                > I tried to contact (without luck) the copyright
                > owner ( the old
                > soviet era publishing house) to see if I could get
                > their support and
                > permission to publish the full book translation (at
                > this point I
                > only have the 17th C. chapters finished, about a
                > third of the
                > book ). The author Magdalena Bartkiewicz is still a
                > working
                > professor at the university of Warclaw and I did
                > talk to her, she
                > supports the project. I should try again. I
                > suppose I could put it
                > out on the web as an 'unauthorized translation' but
                > I thought it
                > would be good to have a paper product with
                > illustrations, that
                > libraries could have on their shelves, etc.
                >
                > I also just finished a translation of POLSKIE UBIORY
                > WOJSKOWE z XVI
                > i XVII w. ) By ZOFIA STEFA�SKA (polish military
                > dress)- it is being
                > proofed. That will be posted.
                > -Rick
                > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "ssaucer@j..."
                > <ssaucer@j...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Turnau seems to be about the only author that
                > deals with Polish
                > costume in the English language.
                > > Are there others?
                > > Is your translation of Polski Ubior do 1864 Roku
                > available
                > commercially?
                > > Ilijana Krakowska
                > >
                > > <From: "Rick Orli" <orlirva@y...>
                > > <When I translated the somewhat academic Polski
                > Ubior do 1864 Roku
                > > <(Polish costume) [snip] A resource I did not have
                > but wish I did
                > was <Turnau's Polish dictionary of historic costume
                > terminology
                > > <(Turnau, Irena) It is in polish but I expect that
                > the early
                > <terminology would be very similiar in both
                > languages. Your
                > <translators might find it useful. -Rick
                >
                >
              • Rick Orli
                Well, ideology does not really matter about patterns and the like, but there are a few sections where there are some opinions in the class struggle sort of
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 9, 2004
                  Well, ideology does not really matter about patterns and the like,
                  but there are a few sections where there are some opinions in
                  the 'class struggle' sort of vein. Also, The reason the women
                  rejected the eastern fashions the men liked (in favor of the lastest
                  from Paris) was that the ever practical and sober women (we are
                  told) rejected the impractical war-loving fantasies of the menfolk.
                  Huh?

                  There are political intrusions in some aspects. The russians for
                  example were forever justifying the occupation of the ukraine by
                  agressively highlighting (or inventing) ancient cultural
                  affiliations between moskow and kiew. The russians accuse the poles
                  of the same, fair enough, but after 1648 Poles did not have the same
                  incentive to fictionalize history. Besides, when a polish source
                  states that kiew fashions and krakow fashions were closely in sync
                  in the 16th-17th C, it is not a claim of cultural domination so much
                  as asknowledgement that polish and lithuanian mens fashion was
                  driven by eastern and tatar fashions via the ukraine and before that
                  the unkraninian part of the GD of lithuania. After all, Polish
                  fashion was much more like german fashion in the prior centuries.
                  Modern ukranian, lithuanian, and beylorusian nationalistic histories
                  (some russian and polish ones too) tend to condem all prior
                  associations with any other nation as part of some sort of evil plot
                  to quash their ancient natural right of nationalistic statehood ...
                  even if the events in question happened around the time of the
                  battle of Hastings, at a time when the very concept of nationalistic
                  statehood was unknown.
                  -Rick


                  --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Tim Nalley <mordakus@y...> wrote:
                  > Rik,
                  > You're the Whip! I always wanted to read the other
                  > works of Turnau and Bartkiewicz, well, looking at her
                  > book was impressive but I wonder how much Soviet era
                  > academic/political priorities have influenced both
                  > works, and thier validity as historical secondary
                  > docs. Got any ideas on that?
                  > 'dak
                  >
                  >
                • Rick Orli
                  Mark Wolf, Jan Chrypinski and many other people helped. I hope more of this material will be available soon. -Rick
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 9, 2004
                    Mark Wolf, Jan Chrypinski and many other people helped. I hope more
                    of this material will be available soon.
                    -Rick
                    --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Marilee Humason <stasiwa@y...> wrote:
                    > Rick,
                    > you are a God and we worship at your shrine!!!
                    > Any and all translations welcome here!!!!!
                    >
                    > Thanks for sharing!!
                    > Baroness Anastasia
                    >
                    >
                    > --- Rick Orli <orlirva@y...> wrote:
                    > > I tried to contact (without luck) the copyright
                    > > owner ( the old
                    > > soviet era publishing house) to see if I could get
                    > > their support and
                    > > permission to publish the full book translation (at
                    > > this point I
                    > > only have the 17th C. chapters finished, about a
                    > > third of the
                    > > book ). The author Magdalena Bartkiewicz is still a
                    > > working
                    > > professor at the university of Warclaw and I did
                    > > talk to her, she
                    > > supports the project. I should try again. I
                    > > suppose I could put it
                    > > out on the web as an 'unauthorized translation' but
                    > > I thought it
                    > > would be good to have a paper product with
                    > > illustrations, that
                    > > libraries could have on their shelves, etc.
                    > >
                    > > I also just finished a translation of POLSKIE UBIORY
                    > > WOJSKOWE z XVI
                    > > i XVII w. ) By ZOFIA STEFAÑSKA (polish military
                    > > dress)- it is being
                    > > proofed. That will be posted.
                    > > -Rick
                    > > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "ssaucer@j..."
                    > > <ssaucer@j...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Turnau seems to be about the only author that
                    > > deals with Polish
                    > > costume in the English language.
                    > > > Are there others?
                    > > > Is your translation of Polski Ubior do 1864 Roku
                    > > available
                    > > commercially?
                    > > > Ilijana Krakowska
                    > > >
                    > > > <From: "Rick Orli" <orlirva@y...>
                    > > > <When I translated the somewhat academic Polski
                    > > Ubior do 1864 Roku
                    > > > <(Polish costume) [snip] A resource I did not have
                    > > but wish I did
                    > > was <Turnau's Polish dictionary of historic costume
                    > > terminology
                    > > > <(Turnau, Irena) It is in polish but I expect that
                    > > the early
                    > > <terminology would be very similiar in both
                    > > languages. Your
                    > > <translators might find it useful. -Rick
                    > >
                    > >
                  • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
                    ... Well, yes and no. Polish sources tend to be overly romantic about the Glorious Polish Past. ... Yup. -- -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 9, 2004
                      > There are political intrusions in some aspects. The russians for
                      > example were forever justifying the occupation of the ukraine by
                      > agressively highlighting (or inventing) ancient cultural
                      > affiliations between moskow and kiew. The russians accuse the poles
                      > of the same, fair enough, but after 1648 Poles did not have the same
                      > incentive to fictionalize history.

                      Well, yes and no. Polish sources tend to be overly romantic about the
                      Glorious Polish Past.

                      > Modern ukranian, lithuanian, and beylorusian nationalistic histories
                      > (some russian and polish ones too) tend to condem all prior
                      > associations with any other nation as part of some sort of evil plot
                      > to quash their ancient natural right of nationalistic statehood ...

                      Yup.

                      --
                      -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
                      "That road is paved with librarians,/Bushwhackers, scouts with string
                      Through the labyrinths of information,/Helpers who disappear the moment
                      You reach your destination." -- Julia Alvarez
                    • Rick Orli
                      The big problem is Illustrations. There were a hundred or more that come from dozens of places. Text is one thing but gotta have pictures. The original book
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 9, 2004
                        The big problem is Illustrations. There were a hundred or more that
                        come from dozens of places. Text is one thing but gotta have
                        pictures. The original book copyright would include rights to
                        reproduce the pictures. I am not about to spend what could be
                        months of steady work hunting down picture rights
                        -Rick

                        --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. Goldschmidt" <goldschp@t...>
                        wrote:
                        > What is the copyright date on the book? Prior to 1980, most of
                        the EE
                        > countries were not signatories to the Copyright and they did not
                        recognize
                        > our intellectual property rights so we didn't have to honor theirs.
                        >
                        > If you've got the author's blessings, I'd say you satisfied the
                        ethical angle .
                        >
                        > And if you're not planning to make a penny off of the translation,
                        it
                        > really wouldn't be worth anyone's time to sue you.
                        >
                        > No, I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Select last
                        night. :>
                        >
                      • Paul W. Goldschmidt
                        ... How about redrawing them?
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jul 9, 2004
                          At 08:26 PM 7/9/2004 +0000, you wrote:
                          >The big problem is Illustrations. There were a hundred or more that
                          >come from dozens of places. Text is one thing but gotta have
                          >pictures. The original book copyright would include rights to
                          >reproduce the pictures. I am not about to spend what could be
                          >months of steady work hunting down picture rights
                          >-Rick

                          How about redrawing them?
                        • Mark S. Wolf (Janushonis, Zikowski)
                          two things Rick the pictures in that book are all either pictures of surviving garment or period iconagraphy and as suh cant be copyrighted its all public
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jul 23, 2004
                            two things Rick the pictures in that book are all either pictures of surviving garment or
                            period iconagraphy and as suh cant be copyrighted its all public domain one because its
                            the reproduction of someone elses work and second because its past any copyright period

                            second ya never did send me the final translations I only have the rough drafts
                          • Mark S. Wolf (Janushonis, Zikowski)
                            oh also it wouldent be too hard to substitue most of those drawings with other availible on the internet and again other sourses ya dont need permition to
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jul 23, 2004
                              oh also it wouldent be too hard to substitue most of those drawings with other availible on
                              the internet and again other sourses

                              ya dont need permition to reproduce the images in other words just the specific order and
                              if ya have permision or no Copyright applies then there is no problem
                            • Susan Koziel
                              Umm... pictures taken of artifacts which are then published are the property of the photographer or the museum that allowed the pictures taken. That s why you
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jul 23, 2004
                                Umm... pictures taken of artifacts which are then
                                published are the property of the photographer or the
                                museum that allowed the pictures taken. That's why you
                                pay so much for books on artifacts.

                                It only becomes public domain if the work (book) that
                                published the picture is old enough to be public
                                domain.
                                The photograph is the part that's protected, not the
                                object in the photograh. (it's intellectual property,
                                not copywrite).

                                -Kataryna
                              • Mark S. Wolf (Janushonis, Zikowski)
                                that depends on weather the photographer retained rights to the image or weather they signed any sort of agreement with the museum the museum owns the property
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jul 23, 2004
                                  that depends on weather the photographer retained rights to the image or weather they
                                  signed any sort of agreement with the museum the museum owns the property but retains
                                  no copyright on it either way then the second post is true that its just a matter of finding
                                  other images
                                • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
                                  ... In the US, at least, pictures, including photographs, are intellectual property and copyrighted to either the person taking them, or, if it is a work made
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jul 26, 2004
                                    > that depends on weather the photographer retained rights to the image or weather they
                                    > signed any sort of agreement with the museum the museum owns the property but retains
                                    > no copyright on it either way then the second post is true that its just a matter of finding
                                    > other images

                                    In the US, at least, pictures, including photographs, are intellectual
                                    property and copyrighted to either the person taking them, or, if it is 'a
                                    work made for hire' to the organization who hired them to take the
                                    photographs. (If the thing being photographed is also a work of
                                    intellectual property, such as a statue, etc. that is within its copyright
                                    term, there may be other issues for the photographer.)

                                    So, the picture is copyright to the maker of the picture, though the
                                    original artifact is out of copyright. As a result, copyright permission
                                    is needed if you are going to use someone else's picture of an artifact.

                                    --
                                    -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
                                    "Oh, don't blame yourself, Mrs. Ogg. I'm sure others will do that for
                                    you--" Terry Pratchett, _Carpe Jugulum_
                                  • Cezary Wyszynski
                                    Hello If anybody is interested, in a bookstore (which is now selling out ) near my home are still some I. Turnau s books available. All in english. - Turnau
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jan 22, 2005
                                      Hello

                                      If anybody is interested, in a bookstore (which is now selling out ) near my home are still some I. Turnau's books available.
                                      All in english.

                                      - Turnau Irena - Hand-Felting in Europe and Asia from the Middle Ages to the 20th Century
                                      - Turnau Irena - History of Knitting Before Mass Production

                                      sorry for this commercial offer :) but I know that those books are in request :)

                                      cezar wyszynski




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise
                                      Dear Cezar... are they already sold now? How can I get ahold of them if not? -- Jadwiga ... -- -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Feb 9, 2005
                                        Dear Cezar... are they already sold now? How can I get ahold of them if
                                        not? -- Jadwiga

                                        > If anybody is interested, in a bookstore (which is now selling out ) near my home are still some I. Turnau's books available.
                                        > All in english.
                                        >
                                        > - Turnau Irena - Hand-Felting in Europe and Asia from the Middle Ages to the 20th Century
                                        > - Turnau Irena - History of Knitting Before Mass Production
                                        >
                                        > sorry for this commercial offer :) but I know that those books are in request :)
                                        >
                                        > cezar wyszynski
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >

                                        --
                                        -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
                                        "Information wants to be a Socialist... not a Communist or a
                                        Republican." - Karen Schneider
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