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RE: [sig] Slavic "vich" names

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  • Nenad Lockic
    Variants Leovich Liovich are same family name but in different dialect (Liovich is ikavica dialect common in Dalmatia). Lijovich could be the wrong
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 14, 2004
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      Variants

      Leovich
      Liovich

      are same family name but in different dialect (Liovich is "ikavica" dialect
      common in Dalmatia).

      Lijovich could be the wrong transcript because in usually speak between two
      vocals often occurs a voice similar to "mute j" (correct: bio = he/she/it
      was; incorrect = bijo; etc.).
      Also, Lijovich could came from "lija" (lisica = fox).

      Liovich also could be Slavic transcript of English reading of Leovich.

      Family names came very late. And only Bulgarian and Macedonian peoples of
      south Slavic have variants for woman's family names (Levov, Levski > Levova,
      Levska, Levovska). Unofficial variants in 19. century at Serbs (sometimes
      still using in common speak) were -chka (for married women) and -cheva (for
      still unmarried girls): Petrovichka, Petrovicheva.

      I think that in medieval times south Slavic women (as first I think on
      Croats and Serbs) subscribes only with names, relation and related status:
      her name (Maria, Helena, etc.), relation (the daughter, the wife, the
      widow), his name (Petar, Ivan, etc.), his status and/or title (the lord of,
      etc.). Croat nobles put "pl." (plemeniti) before the family names (for
      example: pl. Leovich).

      So, if you wish to translate family name from later to earlier time when it
      not existed, I think that is better to not make any special suffix for
      famine family name. If you wish, then you can use Leovicheva (similar to
      other Slavic people). I think that it is not good solution.

      Regards,
      Nenad
    • Kythe
      ... I ve also been told -ski is a title of Nobility but that predominately it was added to peoples names in the 19th century because it was the fashion/
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 14, 2004
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        --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Nenad Lockic" <lockey@v...> wrote:
        > Variants
        >
        >And only Bulgarian and Macedonian peoples of
        > south Slavic have variants for woman's family names (Levov, Levski
        > Levova, Levska, Levovska).

        I've also been told -ski is a title of Nobility but that
        predominately it was added to peoples names in the 19th century
        because it was the fashion/ Probably 1 in 10 -ski's are legitimate
        nobility.

        Unofficial variants in 19. century at Serbs (sometimes
        > still using in common speak) were -chka (for married women) and -
        cheva (for
        > still unmarried girls): Petrovichka

        Ok on another tangent, would I be correct in this breakdown of
        Szubielka

        Szuba - is the Rootname
        iel- unsure of this part
        ka- perhaps Son of? (there's no ch, so I thought that might change
        the breakdown).
      • Kresimir Zeravica
        ... That is interesting but how about some of the prominent noble families and also non noble families that have come from tribal names and or names of places.
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 14, 2004
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          >> Family names came very late. And only Bulgarian and
          > Macedonian peoples of
          > south Slavic have variants for woman's family names

          That is interesting but how about some of the
          prominent noble families and also non noble families
          that have come from tribal names and or names of
          places. For instance I know for sure that around the
          14oo or so my last name Zeravica was the last name of
          two related tribes from around Boka Kotorska one
          "tribe" named Martinovi Zeravice and the other
          Zeravice...the two were split from one presumably by
          Martins part of the family leaving to the Knin area
          (Vrlika to be exact) and starting life there for that
          part of the family. And as far as the other example
          concerned Nikola Subic Zrinski and Fran Krsto
          Frankopan (Mid 17 century for both) as two of the most
          prominent politycal martirs of Croatia of all times.
          Nikola Subic Zrinski has two last names ...First one
          is Subic which is the name of the Tribe he came out of
          and then Zrinski which is the name where his tribe
          lived. Fran Krsto Frankopan has a first, middle and
          last name, the last name is the name of his Tribe.

          And then Matja Gubec the leader of the major "Peasant
          Revolt" from the 1400 as well, a commoner that was sat
          on a searing hot throne in Zagreb and crowned with a
          equally searing iron crown and then he was quartered
          for everyone to see what fait leaders of revolts will
          have...but he had a last name probably tribe name.

          Lijovic could be a name of one of the "lesser" tribes
          in Croatia from who knows when or some family from
          Livno one of the royal cedes of the early Croatian
          Kingdom...or indeed it could be as you said that it
          might be derivet from: the Like a fox, in croatian
          culture the fox is a shrewd, wise and dangerous
          opponent to have.

          > I think that in medieval times south Slavic women
          > (as first I think on
          > Croats and Serbs) subscribes only with names,
          > relation and related status:
          > her name (Maria, Helena, etc.), relation (the
          > daughter, the wife, the
          > widow), his name (Petar, Ivan, etc.), his status
          > and/or title (the lord of,
          > etc.). Croat nobles put "pl." (plemeniti) before
          > the family names (for
          > example: pl. Leovich).

          The added plemeniti to a name is used only when a
          commoner achieves the status of smaller nobilty
          through masterful work in whatever field or some great
          favor to a noble or whatever...I have a buddy that is
          actually from such a family and he still has the
          certificate given to his ancestor :) it is really
          cool.

          Katarina Zrinska...the wife of Nikola Subic Zrinski
          was from a hungarian noble family, but she is refered
          to as Katarina Zrinska. So Lidija's name would be
          probably Lidija Lijovicha with the meaning of "Lidija
          od Lijovica" that would be translated possibly as
          belonging to the Lijovic tribe.










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        • Lydia Towery
          Thank all of you SO much for helping me with this... In summary, do you think I can get Lidija Lijovicha past a Herald? I usually add de Ragusa to the end
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 16, 2004
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            Thank all of you SO much for helping me with this...

            In summary, do you think I can get Lidija Lijovicha past a Herald? I
            usually add "de Ragusa" to the end of my name, as I wanted to take a
            little creative liberty with the placement of my personae (even
            though I know the family name is from Livno). I have been to
            Dubrovnik and know more about it in period than I do about Livno.
            St. Blaise is the patron saint of both spinners and Ragusa, which I
            liked too.

            Thanks for the advice. Hope to see you all at Pennsic!

            --Lydia

            --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Kresimir Zeravica <tonicwgin@y...> wrote:
            >
            > >> Family names came very late. And only Bulgarian and
            > > Macedonian peoples of
            > > south Slavic have variants for woman's family names
            >
            > That is interesting but how about some of the
            > prominent noble families and also non noble families
            > that have come from tribal names and or names of
            > places. For instance I know for sure that around the
            > 14oo or so my last name Zeravica was the last name of
            > two related tribes from around Boka Kotorska one
            > "tribe" named Martinovi Zeravice and the other
            > Zeravice...the two were split from one presumably by
            > Martins part of the family leaving to the Knin area
            > (Vrlika to be exact) and starting life there for that
            > part of the family. And as far as the other example
            > concerned Nikola Subic Zrinski and Fran Krsto
            > Frankopan (Mid 17 century for both) as two of the most
            > prominent politycal martirs of Croatia of all times.
            > Nikola Subic Zrinski has two last names ...First one
            > is Subic which is the name of the Tribe he came out of
            > and then Zrinski which is the name where his tribe
            > lived. Fran Krsto Frankopan has a first, middle and
            > last name, the last name is the name of his Tribe.
            >
            > And then Matja Gubec the leader of the major "Peasant
            > Revolt" from the 1400 as well, a commoner that was sat
            > on a searing hot throne in Zagreb and crowned with a
            > equally searing iron crown and then he was quartered
            > for everyone to see what fait leaders of revolts will
            > have...but he had a last name probably tribe name.
            >
            > Lijovic could be a name of one of the "lesser" tribes
            > in Croatia from who knows when or some family from
            > Livno one of the royal cedes of the early Croatian
            > Kingdom...or indeed it could be as you said that it
            > might be derivet from: the Like a fox, in croatian
            > culture the fox is a shrewd, wise and dangerous
            > opponent to have.
            >
            > > I think that in medieval times south Slavic women
            > > (as first I think on
            > > Croats and Serbs) subscribes only with names,
            > > relation and related status:
            > > her name (Maria, Helena, etc.), relation (the
            > > daughter, the wife, the
            > > widow), his name (Petar, Ivan, etc.), his status
            > > and/or title (the lord of,
            > > etc.). Croat nobles put "pl." (plemeniti) before
            > > the family names (for
            > > example: pl. Leovich).
            >
            > The added plemeniti to a name is used only when a
            > commoner achieves the status of smaller nobilty
            > through masterful work in whatever field or some great
            > favor to a noble or whatever...I have a buddy that is
            > actually from such a family and he still has the
            > certificate given to his ancestor :) it is really
            > cool.
            >
            > Katarina Zrinska...the wife of Nikola Subic Zrinski
            > was from a hungarian noble family, but she is refered
            > to as Katarina Zrinska. So Lidija's name would be
            > probably Lidija Lijovicha with the meaning of "Lidija
            > od Lijovica" that would be translated possibly as
            > belonging to the Lijovic tribe.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
            > http://messenger.yahoo.com/
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