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Re[2]: [sig] I've been asked for help w/ N Slavic feast

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  • Alexey Kiyaikin
    Greetings Jadwiga! ... JZJH I don t think I asked my question properly. Let me try asking this a JZJH different way: on which days was meat forbidden by
    Message 1 of 20 , May 27, 2004
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      Greetings Jadwiga!

      Thursday, May 27, 2004, 6:25:46 PM, you wrote:

      >> JZJH> I do have a question about 'if there is meat for dinner...' could that
      >> JZJH> mean, 'if it is a meat day' as Pouncy translates it? I'm entirely unclear
      >> JZJH> as to which days were meatless days in the Russian Orthodox 16th century
      >> JZJH> calendar...
      >> about 160-200 days of the year. Thus, reallly no great habit of eating
      >> meat every day. But lots of opportunities to specialize in river fish
      >> and grains.
      >>

      JZJH> I don't think I asked my question properly. Let me try asking this a
      JZJH> different way: on which days was meat forbidden by Russian Orthodox rules?
      JZJH> In Western Europe, during Lent, Advent, and on Wednesday, Friday, and
      JZJH> Saturdays along with some other days, meat was forbidden... these are
      JZJH> sometimes called meatless days or fish days as opposed to meat days when
      JZJH> meat was allowed.
      Those were all-Christian fast days.
      Orthodox church had it more. I do not remember all the fast days, but
      one of them was special Old Russian invention, (afair) the st. Peter fast, specially to
      block the Rusalia [holiday]weeks that went from June Rusalia to July Rusalia
      days. The fast was for about three weeks of June, from June
      Rusalia (can't remember exactly, about 10-14 June) to the last days of
      the month, including the Kupala day, which was one of the major
      pre-Christian holidays of the year.


      --
      Bye,
      Alex mailto:Posadnik@...
    • Alexey Kiyaikin
      Greetings ... JZJH *nod* Baking in the coals, yes. I remember reading that flatbreads were JZJH baked this way, too. Were they put in earthenware/ceramic
      Message 2 of 20 , May 27, 2004
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        Greetings

        Thursday, May 27, 2004, 6:54:05 PM, you wrote:

        >> JZJH> Frying meat in a pan isn't that typical of Western period cookery, either,
        >> JZJH> except for fish... so that's no surprise.
        >> Grilling/frying on the open fire was not typical for Russia either.
        >> baking in... (coils? ashes? what remains of the fire when it is still
        >> burning withoiut flames - damn mental block...), yes.
        JZJH> *nod* Baking in the coals, yes. I remember reading that flatbreads were
        JZJH> baked this way, too. Were they put in earthenware/ceramic baking pots,
        JZJH> wrapped in dough, wrapped in leaves, or otherwise?

        As with the Svyatoslav case, I'd suggest just digging it into coals as
        it is with potatoes (potatoes baked in coals is a VERY popular outdoor
        meal, like grilling in the USA :-) ). Pokhlebkin claims only two ways
        of cooking meat: boiling and baking. Ceramic pots of different shape ARE
        mentioned anywhere though I never dug deep enough to find out the design of the
        earliest kitchen devices. Wouldn't say they could use dough,
        agriculture was not too productive to spend wheat/rhye on that. About
        the leaves, can't say.

        Baking fish and -!- birds (chicken, goose, etc) in clay - must be a very early
        way. Clay "dough" is spread over the fish that is NOT stripped of its
        scales, or the birds that are never feathered. Then it's dug into the
        coals. When the clay becomes
        rock-hard and the dish is ready, all the scales/feathers go with the
        clay they stuck to, and the ready-to-eat meal remaiuns.
        Hunters/fishermen on major rivers often did that in XIX and XX centuries.


        --
        Bye,
        Alex mailto:Posadnik@...
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