Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Subject: name documentation: Valeska

Expand Messages
  • Alastair Millar
    Righty... Cosmas does indeed mention the Maidens War, but makes no specific name references in doing so - you can find the references to it in Book IX. Note
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 9, 2004
      Righty...

      Cosmas does indeed mention the Maidens' War, but makes no specific name
      references in doing so - you can find the references to it in Book IX. Note
      especially that this is firmly in the "mythical/legendary" period, i.e.
      substantially before 894 AD, which is where datable events in the Chronicle
      begin.

      There is somewhat more information on the Maidens' War in the Chronicle of
      Dalimil, written about the turn of the 14th century. The main female figures
      mentioned are Vlasta and S'arka, and there is no mention of anyone called
      Valeska - and especially not a ruler, since all this was taking place during
      the reign of Pr'emysl and around the time of the death of Libus'e.

      I also cannot find any references to a similar name elsewhere in the same or
      other Chronicles, or in my other references.

      I do have unsubstantiated place-name evidence for the male name Valek, and I
      suppose in theory one could argue for a feminine form of Valeska. What
      worries me, however, is the obvious cognate with [valka], meaning 'War'!!!
      Frankly, I am inclined to see "Valeska" as something that results from a
      translation problem... esp. since your Pope would have been writing in
      Latin. I could be wrong, of course, but the name seems rather doubtful to me
      at present - sorry!

      Alastair

      -----------------------------------------------------
      Alastair Millar BSc (Hons) - http://www.skriptorium.info
      Translation & Consultancy for the Heritage Industry
      P.O. Box 11, CZ 413 01 Roudnice, Czech Republic
      Tel.: +420.607.993.041, Fax.: +420.416.838.722
    • rosanne rabinowitz
      Hi, I came across the story of the Maidens War in a book by John Klassen — Warring Maidens, Captive Wiaves and Hussite Queens: Women and Men at War and
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 9, 2004
        Hi,

        I came across the story of the Maidens War in a book by John Klassen � Warring Maidens, Captive Wiaves and Hussite Queens: Women and Men at War and Peace in Late Medieval Bohemia. Klassen looks at the legend and sees it as exerting a major formative influence in how Bohemian women saw themselves and the relatively active roles they played in conflicts especially in the Hussite period.

        The name KLassen used was VLASTA � if I recall, she was a daughter of Libusa. Sarka was another maiden-soldier, who specialised in seducing enemy knights and killing them.

        Rosanne

        --------- Original Message ---------

        DATE: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:58:45
        From: "Alastair Millar" <alastair@...>

        >Worse, I don't think it was Libus'e that fought the Maidens' War, but
        >S'arka... Libus'e was the seeress who foresaw the greateness of Prague as
        >'the city of a thousand spires', and who married Pr'emysl Orac' the (the
        >ploughman) to found the Premyslid dynasty - so no-one took the throne off
        >her!
        >
        >I've never come across any use of the name Vales'ka, but I'll pop into the
        >library later and dig out a copy of the Chronicle and see if it's in there.
        >
        >Alastair
        >
        >--------------------------------------------------------
        >Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons) - http://www.skriptorium.info
        >Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
        >P.O.Box 11, CZ 413 01 Roudnice, Czech Republic
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >



        ____________________________________________________________
        Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages
        http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10
      • rosanne rabinowitz
        Hi, I came across the story of the Maidens War in a book by John Klassen — Warring Maidens, Captive Wiaves and Hussite Queens: Women and Men at War and
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 9, 2004
          Hi,

          I came across the story of the Maidens War in a book by John Klassen � Warring Maidens, Captive Wiaves and Hussite Queens: Women and Men at War and Peace in Late Medieval Bohemia. Klassen looks at the legend and sees it as exerting a major formative influence in how Bohemian women saw themselves and the relatively active roles they played in conflicts especially in the Hussite period.

          The name KLassen used was VLASTA � if I recall, she was a daughter of Libusa. Sarka was another maiden-soldier, who specialised in seducing enemy knights and killing them.

          Rosanne

          --------- Original Message ---------

          DATE: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:58:45
          From: "Alastair Millar" <alastair@...>

          >Worse, I don't think it was Libus'e that fought the Maidens' War, but
          >S'arka... Libus'e was the seeress who foresaw the greateness of Prague as
          >'the city of a thousand spires', and who married Pr'emysl Orac' the (the
          >ploughman) to found the Premyslid dynasty - so no-one took the throne off
          >her!
          >
          >I've never come across any use of the name Vales'ka, but I'll pop into the
          >library later and dig out a copy of the Chronicle and see if it's in there.
          >
          >Alastair
          >
          >--------------------------------------------------------
          >Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons) - http://www.skriptorium.info
          >Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
          >P.O.Box 11, CZ 413 01 Roudnice, Czech Republic
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >



          ____________________________________________________________
          Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages
          http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10
        • Stacie Granger
          ... Chronicle ... and I ... What ... meaning War !!! ... from a ... in ... doubtful to me ... I feel better about my inablility to prove the name myself now.
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 9, 2004
            --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Alastair Millar" <alastair@i...> wrote:
            >this is is firmly in the "mythical/legendary" period, i.e.
            > substantially before 894 AD, which is where datable events in the
            Chronicle
            > begin.
            >
            > I have unsubstantiated place-name evidence for the male name Valek,
            and I
            > suppose in theory one could argue for a feminine form of Valeska.
            What
            > worries me, however, is the obvious cognate with [valka],
            meaning 'War'!!!
            > Frankly, I am inclined to see "Valeska" as something that results
            from a
            > translation problem... esp. since your Pope would have been writing
            in
            > Latin. I could be wrong, of course, but the name seems rather
            doubtful to me
            > at present - sorry!
            >
            > Alastair

            I feel better about my inablility to prove the name myself now. I
            too have found it to relate to mythology. And if you dare look up
            the name in current day baby names books. Valeska is defined as
            something like 'glorious ruler' with no mention of war, the obvious
            root of the word. It does claim slavic origin and says it is a
            modern Polish name. I have my doubts that it can be proven.
            Thankfully, I already settled on changing my name (although
            Male)....but, eight years of using the name is hard to give up.

            Vlksha Iakovleva called Valeska
          • Tracy Kremer
            I ve recently joined this list, and I just wanted to say that all this history that I had no clue of is _so_ very cool! Tracy ===== IN 2004 - JUNE 4-6th -
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 9, 2004
              I've recently joined this list, and I just wanted to
              say that all this history that I had no clue of is
              _so_ very cool!

              Tracy


              =====

              IN 2004 - JUNE 4-6th - COMING TO CHARLOTTE - (drum roll, please,)http://www.secfi.org/concarolinas

              for good webcomics, use these links!
              http://sluggy.com http://www.schlockmercenary.com http://www.kevinandkell.com




              __________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster
              http://search.yahoo.com
            • Tracy Kremer
              Hi folks! my interest in Slavic culture stemmed initially from an ancestral name, Tymczyszyn. I was told that the grandfather bearing that name came from
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 9, 2004
                Hi folks!

                my interest in Slavic culture stemmed initially from
                an ancestral name, Tymczyszyn. I was told that the
                grandfather bearing that name came from Poland, from a
                town that no longer exists since WWII leveled it, and
                his relatives wrote letters to him in a polyglot of
                German, Polish, and Russian. Yet the records show him
                as being born in Ukrania, and his first name was
                Nicholas, and his father's was Basil; those names seem
                to be Russian (?). (Perhaps they had the itchy feet I
                seem to have inherited! <G>) The other patronymics I
                could research are Zgonce, Zedik, Szupianyj, Mazuryk,
                and Szurpeta - the first two may be Yugoslavian,
                though they spoke Polish, the rest are unknown.

                I would like to find out where to look for this name
                to find out how far back it existed, and whether it
                was regional, or might have been more common for a
                region, or profession, etc., so I can get some ideas
                for a eastern european SCA persona. I like to use
                ancestry as a starting point. (If not, I of course
                don't have to use an ancestral name, but this gives me
                somewhere to start and is of personal interest as
                well.)

                So, if anyone could suggest links where I can look for
                this kind of information (I already looked in the SIG
                site's bibliography, and will be looking for Hoffman's
                book), which must unfortunately be in english, or has
                any information on hand, or knows of a specific book I
                could start looking for thru interlibrary loan or for
                sale on the internet, I would be grateful!

                Tracy


                =====

                IN 2004 - JUNE 4-6th - COMING TO CHARLOTTE - (drum roll, please,)http://www.secfi.org/concarolinas

                for good webcomics, use these links!
                http://sluggy.com http://www.schlockmercenary.com http://www.kevinandkell.com




                __________________________________
                Do you Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster
                http://search.yahoo.com
              • P&MSulisz
                Valeska ... Madame Valeska was vary famous person in the Napoleon Era, at least in Poland. Mme Valeska this is French - simplified form of her real Polish
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 10, 2004
                  'Valeska'...
                  Madame Valeska was vary famous person in the Napoleon Era, at least in
                  Poland. Mme Valeska this is French - simplified form of her real Polish
                  surname: Walewska [Valevska]. She was a beautiful married lady. It was
                  obvious to everyone that Napoleon was impressed by hers beauty. The story is
                  long but in few words: she was induced (by the politicians, by hers husband,
                  etc.) to become a lover of the French Imperator - for the glory of Poland of
                  course. For some time she was in favor. They had a son: Alexander Walewski.
                  But she wasn't able to influenced French ruler in the way she was expected
                  to do. After all the adventure she come back to Poland and to for the rest
                  of hers days she was widely honoured as a romantic martyr in the name of
                  Poland. (Another example of the hipocrisy of the male/catholic rulers of
                  this country).
                  I assure you: Valeska is not a Polish name. Either Valeska or Walewska had
                  no slightest conections with the word 'walka' (valka) = warfare.
                  The first legendary Polish princess was Wanda (Vanda). But the scholars says
                  hers name wasn't slavic at all and link her with the tribe of Vandals who
                  lived here for some centuries, some years ago.
                  I wish you fruitful searching,
                  Magdalena z Wroclawia



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Stacie Granger" <scavaleska@...>
                  To: <sig@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:13 PM

                  > I feel better about my inablility to prove the name myself now. I
                  > too have found it to relate to mythology. And if you dare look up
                  > the name in current day baby names books. Valeska is defined as
                  > something like 'glorious ruler' with no mention of war, the obvious
                  > root of the word. It does claim slavic origin and says it is a
                  > modern Polish name. I have my doubts that it can be proven.
                  > Thankfully, I already settled on changing my name (although
                  > Male)....but, eight years of using the name is hard to give up.
                  >
                  > Vlksha Iakovleva called Valeska
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • bigmakusa
                  ... Tracy-- You might want to start with Kazimierz Rymut s Dictionary of Surnames in Current Use in Poland at the Beginning of the 21st Century, it listed 637
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 14, 2004
                    > I would like to find out where to look for this name
                    > to find out how far back it existed, and whether it
                    > was regional, or might have been more common for a
                    > region, or profession, etc.,

                    Tracy--

                    You might want to start with Kazimierz Rymut's Dictionary of Surnames
                    in Current Use in Poland at the Beginning of the 21st Century, it
                    listed 637 Tymczyszyn's in Poland as of 1990 located in a number of
                    different powiats (e.g.s administrative districts). You can find a
                    link to it on the Polish Genealogical Society website, www.pgsa.org,
                    look in the databases section.

                    Also check out the Polish surames section of the website as there are
                    resources there that might help you. For example, there is an address
                    for a Polish institute that will research the history of a name to
                    tell you its origin for a nominal fee (usually about $20). This group
                    understands and will reply in English.

                    If you know the town name in Poland where your ancestor resided, you
                    can probably find out more about it in the Slownik Geograficzyny
                    Krolestwa Polskiego, a geographical dictionary that describes towns in
                    Poland. It was published in the 1880's through 1902, so it predates
                    WWII. The problem is that all the entries are in Polish, so you will
                    need to translate the information.

                    Good hunting
                  • Tracy Kremer
                    Bigmakusa , thank you _sooo_ much! For your pleasure, I will write down my reactions to your post as I read it; ... Ooooo, wow! ... OOOOooooooo, WOW! ...
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 15, 2004
                      "Bigmakusa", thank you _sooo_ much!

                      For your pleasure, I will write down my reactions to
                      your post as I read it;

                      > You might want to start with Kazimierz Rymut's
                      > Dictionary of Surnames.....

                      Ooooo, wow!


                      > You can find a
                      > link to it on the Polish Genealogical Society
                      > website, www.pgsa.org,

                      OOOOooooooo, WOW!

                      > there is an address
                      > for a Polish institute that will research the
                      > history of a name to
                      > tell you its origin for a nominal fee (usually about
                      > $20). This group
                      > understands and will reply in English.

                      Oooo, wow!

                      > If you know the town name in Poland where your
                      > ancestor resided, you
                      > can probably find out more about it in the Slownik
                      > Geograficzyny
                      > Krolestwa Polskiego,

                      EXcellent!
                      (I'll be getting that town's name this week, by the
                      way; I'm driving up to Buffalo, where relatives
                      reside)

                      a geographical dictionary that
                      > describes towns in
                      > Poland. It was published in the 1880's through 1902,
                      > so it predates
                      > WWII.

                      Ooooo, wow!

                      The problem is that all the entries are in
                      > Polish, so you will
                      > need to translate the information.

                      Uh-oh!
                      Hmmmm....

                      > Good hunting

                      LOL!
                      (this was a laughter of pleasure)

                      Anyway, thank you so much, makusa, for bringing my
                      search back into motion! (I was stalled due to not
                      knowing where to look any further).

                      Happily,
                      Eluned aka Tracy


                      =====

                      IN 2004 - JUNE 4-6th - COMING TO CHARLOTTE - (drum roll, please,)http://www.secfi.org/concarolinas

                      for good webcomics, use these links!
                      http://sluggy.com http://www.schlockmercenary.com http://www.kevinandkell.com




                      __________________________________
                      Do you Yahoo!?
                      Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
                      http://mail.yahoo.com
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.