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Re: Subject: name documentation: Valeska

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  • Alastair Millar
    Oh deary deary me, looks like your source has got himself horribly confused. The event referred to is the Divci valka or Maidens War , which I am afraid is
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 8, 2004
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      Oh deary deary me, looks like your source has got himself horribly
      confused.

      The event referred to is the "Divci valka" or "Maidens' War", which I am
      afraid is merely legend... it's first mentioned in the Chronicle of Cosmas,
      I think, and (were it to have occurred at all) would have taken place some
      time in the 8th century, not around 1300.

      Worse, I don't think it was Libus'e that fought the Maidens' War, but
      S'arka... Libus'e was the seeress who foresaw the greateness of Prague as
      'the city of a thousand spires', and who married Pr'emysl Orac' the (the
      ploughman) to found the Premyslid dynasty - so no-one took the throne off
      her!

      I've never come across any use of the name Vales'ka, but I'll pop into the
      library later and dig out a copy of the Chronicle and see if it's in there.

      Alastair

      --------------------------------------------------------
      Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons) - http://www.skriptorium.info
      Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
      P.O.Box 11, CZ 413 01 Roudnice, Czech Republic
    • Alastair Millar
      Righty... Cosmas does indeed mention the Maidens War, but makes no specific name references in doing so - you can find the references to it in Book IX. Note
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 9, 2004
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        Righty...

        Cosmas does indeed mention the Maidens' War, but makes no specific name
        references in doing so - you can find the references to it in Book IX. Note
        especially that this is firmly in the "mythical/legendary" period, i.e.
        substantially before 894 AD, which is where datable events in the Chronicle
        begin.

        There is somewhat more information on the Maidens' War in the Chronicle of
        Dalimil, written about the turn of the 14th century. The main female figures
        mentioned are Vlasta and S'arka, and there is no mention of anyone called
        Valeska - and especially not a ruler, since all this was taking place during
        the reign of Pr'emysl and around the time of the death of Libus'e.

        I also cannot find any references to a similar name elsewhere in the same or
        other Chronicles, or in my other references.

        I do have unsubstantiated place-name evidence for the male name Valek, and I
        suppose in theory one could argue for a feminine form of Valeska. What
        worries me, however, is the obvious cognate with [valka], meaning 'War'!!!
        Frankly, I am inclined to see "Valeska" as something that results from a
        translation problem... esp. since your Pope would have been writing in
        Latin. I could be wrong, of course, but the name seems rather doubtful to me
        at present - sorry!

        Alastair

        -----------------------------------------------------
        Alastair Millar BSc (Hons) - http://www.skriptorium.info
        Translation & Consultancy for the Heritage Industry
        P.O. Box 11, CZ 413 01 Roudnice, Czech Republic
        Tel.: +420.607.993.041, Fax.: +420.416.838.722
      • Stacie Granger
        ... Chronicle ... and I ... What ... meaning War !!! ... from a ... in ... doubtful to me ... I feel better about my inablility to prove the name myself now.
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 9, 2004
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          --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Alastair Millar" <alastair@i...> wrote:
          >this is is firmly in the "mythical/legendary" period, i.e.
          > substantially before 894 AD, which is where datable events in the
          Chronicle
          > begin.
          >
          > I have unsubstantiated place-name evidence for the male name Valek,
          and I
          > suppose in theory one could argue for a feminine form of Valeska.
          What
          > worries me, however, is the obvious cognate with [valka],
          meaning 'War'!!!
          > Frankly, I am inclined to see "Valeska" as something that results
          from a
          > translation problem... esp. since your Pope would have been writing
          in
          > Latin. I could be wrong, of course, but the name seems rather
          doubtful to me
          > at present - sorry!
          >
          > Alastair

          I feel better about my inablility to prove the name myself now. I
          too have found it to relate to mythology. And if you dare look up
          the name in current day baby names books. Valeska is defined as
          something like 'glorious ruler' with no mention of war, the obvious
          root of the word. It does claim slavic origin and says it is a
          modern Polish name. I have my doubts that it can be proven.
          Thankfully, I already settled on changing my name (although
          Male)....but, eight years of using the name is hard to give up.

          Vlksha Iakovleva called Valeska
        • Tracy Kremer
          I ve recently joined this list, and I just wanted to say that all this history that I had no clue of is _so_ very cool! Tracy ===== IN 2004 - JUNE 4-6th -
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 9, 2004
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            I've recently joined this list, and I just wanted to
            say that all this history that I had no clue of is
            _so_ very cool!

            Tracy


            =====

            IN 2004 - JUNE 4-6th - COMING TO CHARLOTTE - (drum roll, please,)http://www.secfi.org/concarolinas

            for good webcomics, use these links!
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          • rosanne rabinowitz
            Hi, I came across the story of the Maidens War in a book by John Klassen — Warring Maidens, Captive Wiaves and Hussite Queens: Women and Men at War and
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 9, 2004
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              Hi,

              I came across the story of the Maidens War in a book by John Klassen � Warring Maidens, Captive Wiaves and Hussite Queens: Women and Men at War and Peace in Late Medieval Bohemia. Klassen looks at the legend and sees it as exerting a major formative influence in how Bohemian women saw themselves and the relatively active roles they played in conflicts especially in the Hussite period.

              The name KLassen used was VLASTA � if I recall, she was a daughter of Libusa. Sarka was another maiden-soldier, who specialised in seducing enemy knights and killing them.

              Rosanne

              --------- Original Message ---------

              DATE: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:58:45
              From: "Alastair Millar" <alastair@...>

              >Worse, I don't think it was Libus'e that fought the Maidens' War, but
              >S'arka... Libus'e was the seeress who foresaw the greateness of Prague as
              >'the city of a thousand spires', and who married Pr'emysl Orac' the (the
              >ploughman) to found the Premyslid dynasty - so no-one took the throne off
              >her!
              >
              >I've never come across any use of the name Vales'ka, but I'll pop into the
              >library later and dig out a copy of the Chronicle and see if it's in there.
              >
              >Alastair
              >
              >--------------------------------------------------------
              >Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons) - http://www.skriptorium.info
              >Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
              >P.O.Box 11, CZ 413 01 Roudnice, Czech Republic
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >



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            • rosanne rabinowitz
              Hi, I came across the story of the Maidens War in a book by John Klassen — Warring Maidens, Captive Wiaves and Hussite Queens: Women and Men at War and
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 9, 2004
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                Hi,

                I came across the story of the Maidens War in a book by John Klassen � Warring Maidens, Captive Wiaves and Hussite Queens: Women and Men at War and Peace in Late Medieval Bohemia. Klassen looks at the legend and sees it as exerting a major formative influence in how Bohemian women saw themselves and the relatively active roles they played in conflicts especially in the Hussite period.

                The name KLassen used was VLASTA � if I recall, she was a daughter of Libusa. Sarka was another maiden-soldier, who specialised in seducing enemy knights and killing them.

                Rosanne

                --------- Original Message ---------

                DATE: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:58:45
                From: "Alastair Millar" <alastair@...>

                >Worse, I don't think it was Libus'e that fought the Maidens' War, but
                >S'arka... Libus'e was the seeress who foresaw the greateness of Prague as
                >'the city of a thousand spires', and who married Pr'emysl Orac' the (the
                >ploughman) to found the Premyslid dynasty - so no-one took the throne off
                >her!
                >
                >I've never come across any use of the name Vales'ka, but I'll pop into the
                >library later and dig out a copy of the Chronicle and see if it's in there.
                >
                >Alastair
                >
                >--------------------------------------------------------
                >Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons) - http://www.skriptorium.info
                >Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
                >P.O.Box 11, CZ 413 01 Roudnice, Czech Republic
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >



                ____________________________________________________________
                Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages
                http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10
              • Tracy Kremer
                Hi folks! my interest in Slavic culture stemmed initially from an ancestral name, Tymczyszyn. I was told that the grandfather bearing that name came from
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 9, 2004
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                  Hi folks!

                  my interest in Slavic culture stemmed initially from
                  an ancestral name, Tymczyszyn. I was told that the
                  grandfather bearing that name came from Poland, from a
                  town that no longer exists since WWII leveled it, and
                  his relatives wrote letters to him in a polyglot of
                  German, Polish, and Russian. Yet the records show him
                  as being born in Ukrania, and his first name was
                  Nicholas, and his father's was Basil; those names seem
                  to be Russian (?). (Perhaps they had the itchy feet I
                  seem to have inherited! <G>) The other patronymics I
                  could research are Zgonce, Zedik, Szupianyj, Mazuryk,
                  and Szurpeta - the first two may be Yugoslavian,
                  though they spoke Polish, the rest are unknown.

                  I would like to find out where to look for this name
                  to find out how far back it existed, and whether it
                  was regional, or might have been more common for a
                  region, or profession, etc., so I can get some ideas
                  for a eastern european SCA persona. I like to use
                  ancestry as a starting point. (If not, I of course
                  don't have to use an ancestral name, but this gives me
                  somewhere to start and is of personal interest as
                  well.)

                  So, if anyone could suggest links where I can look for
                  this kind of information (I already looked in the SIG
                  site's bibliography, and will be looking for Hoffman's
                  book), which must unfortunately be in english, or has
                  any information on hand, or knows of a specific book I
                  could start looking for thru interlibrary loan or for
                  sale on the internet, I would be grateful!

                  Tracy


                  =====

                  IN 2004 - JUNE 4-6th - COMING TO CHARLOTTE - (drum roll, please,)http://www.secfi.org/concarolinas

                  for good webcomics, use these links!
                  http://sluggy.com http://www.schlockmercenary.com http://www.kevinandkell.com




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                • P&MSulisz
                  Valeska ... Madame Valeska was vary famous person in the Napoleon Era, at least in Poland. Mme Valeska this is French - simplified form of her real Polish
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 10, 2004
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                    'Valeska'...
                    Madame Valeska was vary famous person in the Napoleon Era, at least in
                    Poland. Mme Valeska this is French - simplified form of her real Polish
                    surname: Walewska [Valevska]. She was a beautiful married lady. It was
                    obvious to everyone that Napoleon was impressed by hers beauty. The story is
                    long but in few words: she was induced (by the politicians, by hers husband,
                    etc.) to become a lover of the French Imperator - for the glory of Poland of
                    course. For some time she was in favor. They had a son: Alexander Walewski.
                    But she wasn't able to influenced French ruler in the way she was expected
                    to do. After all the adventure she come back to Poland and to for the rest
                    of hers days she was widely honoured as a romantic martyr in the name of
                    Poland. (Another example of the hipocrisy of the male/catholic rulers of
                    this country).
                    I assure you: Valeska is not a Polish name. Either Valeska or Walewska had
                    no slightest conections with the word 'walka' (valka) = warfare.
                    The first legendary Polish princess was Wanda (Vanda). But the scholars says
                    hers name wasn't slavic at all and link her with the tribe of Vandals who
                    lived here for some centuries, some years ago.
                    I wish you fruitful searching,
                    Magdalena z Wroclawia



                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Stacie Granger" <scavaleska@...>
                    To: <sig@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:13 PM

                    > I feel better about my inablility to prove the name myself now. I
                    > too have found it to relate to mythology. And if you dare look up
                    > the name in current day baby names books. Valeska is defined as
                    > something like 'glorious ruler' with no mention of war, the obvious
                    > root of the word. It does claim slavic origin and says it is a
                    > modern Polish name. I have my doubts that it can be proven.
                    > Thankfully, I already settled on changing my name (although
                    > Male)....but, eight years of using the name is hard to give up.
                    >
                    > Vlksha Iakovleva called Valeska
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • bigmakusa
                    ... Tracy-- You might want to start with Kazimierz Rymut s Dictionary of Surnames in Current Use in Poland at the Beginning of the 21st Century, it listed 637
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 14, 2004
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                      > I would like to find out where to look for this name
                      > to find out how far back it existed, and whether it
                      > was regional, or might have been more common for a
                      > region, or profession, etc.,

                      Tracy--

                      You might want to start with Kazimierz Rymut's Dictionary of Surnames
                      in Current Use in Poland at the Beginning of the 21st Century, it
                      listed 637 Tymczyszyn's in Poland as of 1990 located in a number of
                      different powiats (e.g.s administrative districts). You can find a
                      link to it on the Polish Genealogical Society website, www.pgsa.org,
                      look in the databases section.

                      Also check out the Polish surames section of the website as there are
                      resources there that might help you. For example, there is an address
                      for a Polish institute that will research the history of a name to
                      tell you its origin for a nominal fee (usually about $20). This group
                      understands and will reply in English.

                      If you know the town name in Poland where your ancestor resided, you
                      can probably find out more about it in the Slownik Geograficzyny
                      Krolestwa Polskiego, a geographical dictionary that describes towns in
                      Poland. It was published in the 1880's through 1902, so it predates
                      WWII. The problem is that all the entries are in Polish, so you will
                      need to translate the information.

                      Good hunting
                    • Tracy Kremer
                      Bigmakusa , thank you _sooo_ much! For your pleasure, I will write down my reactions to your post as I read it; ... Ooooo, wow! ... OOOOooooooo, WOW! ...
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 15, 2004
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                        "Bigmakusa", thank you _sooo_ much!

                        For your pleasure, I will write down my reactions to
                        your post as I read it;

                        > You might want to start with Kazimierz Rymut's
                        > Dictionary of Surnames.....

                        Ooooo, wow!


                        > You can find a
                        > link to it on the Polish Genealogical Society
                        > website, www.pgsa.org,

                        OOOOooooooo, WOW!

                        > there is an address
                        > for a Polish institute that will research the
                        > history of a name to
                        > tell you its origin for a nominal fee (usually about
                        > $20). This group
                        > understands and will reply in English.

                        Oooo, wow!

                        > If you know the town name in Poland where your
                        > ancestor resided, you
                        > can probably find out more about it in the Slownik
                        > Geograficzyny
                        > Krolestwa Polskiego,

                        EXcellent!
                        (I'll be getting that town's name this week, by the
                        way; I'm driving up to Buffalo, where relatives
                        reside)

                        a geographical dictionary that
                        > describes towns in
                        > Poland. It was published in the 1880's through 1902,
                        > so it predates
                        > WWII.

                        Ooooo, wow!

                        The problem is that all the entries are in
                        > Polish, so you will
                        > need to translate the information.

                        Uh-oh!
                        Hmmmm....

                        > Good hunting

                        LOL!
                        (this was a laughter of pleasure)

                        Anyway, thank you so much, makusa, for bringing my
                        search back into motion! (I was stalled due to not
                        knowing where to look any further).

                        Happily,
                        Eluned aka Tracy


                        =====

                        IN 2004 - JUNE 4-6th - COMING TO CHARLOTTE - (drum roll, please,)http://www.secfi.org/concarolinas

                        for good webcomics, use these links!
                        http://sluggy.com http://www.schlockmercenary.com http://www.kevinandkell.com




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