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Re: [sig] Russian question

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  • Tim Nalley
    A good analogy of period Russian streets might be Pennsic last year during the rains. That s period Russia, the muck and the majesty. There s a lot of info out
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 4, 2004
      A good analogy of period Russian streets might be
      Pennsic last year during the rains. That's period
      Russia, the muck and the majesty. There's a lot of
      info out there, if you read Russian. I'm personally
      thankful we have members like Alexi.
      'dak
      --- "Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik" <Posadnik@...>
      wrote:
      >
      >
      > Greetings!
      >
      > > I am new to the list and making my first Russian
      > garb. I'm confident on
      > > the clothing. My question is: What would a late
      > 16th century upper class
      > > Russian female wear on her feet for indoor/court
      > wear? I assume bias cut
      > > cloth hose, But realize I have no basis for that.
      > Would it be boots or
      > > shoes, what shape would the toe be, and would they
      > be cloth or leather?
      > > Any particular color/decoration? Anything I'm
      > forgetting?
      >
      > Just consider a typical Russian (West European,
      > Baltic, etc - no difference) street.
      >
      > NO pavement for pedestrians, and it's just a rich
      > trade centre if the street is paved at least with
      > logs. Usually that means liquid dirt for three-four
      > months a year, dirt up to the knees. March, April
      > and October are months for anything but cloth
      > footwear. Boots, that's what they wore outdoors if
      > they were wealthy enough.
      >
      > BTW, footcloth (onuchi) was worn even by princesses,
      > along with socks. Tsarevniny onuchki is mentioned in
      > the list of garb compiled by the Kremlin castellans
      > in 15-16 century. The exact citation is to be found
      > in my 1,5 cubic metres of books piled without any
      > shelves on my wardrobe.
      >
      > bye,
      > Alex
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      > sig-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >


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    • "Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik"
      Greetings! ... My take is like linen cloth (onuchi), in the way shown in one Louvre (afair) Italian canvas with the Archangel Michael s feet stomping the
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 5, 2004
        Greetings!
        >
        > Acyually he says that their "upper socks" were cloth
        > of gold, though he says nothing about the rest of the
        > sock in the boot. From the iconograpghy of the period
        > and some post period sources like Olearius, linen and
        > wool are much more common. What's your take, Alexi?

        My take is like linen cloth (onuchi), in the way shown in one Louvre (afair) Italian canvas with the Archangel Michael's feet stomping the devil. Last year I just failed to record from TV a 190* documentary showing a peasant woman draping her feet in the same way (the only difference was that the archangel left his heels and toes undraped, and Russian peasants covered them as well). That was for summer. For winter they (no info about the imported goods, just what they had in wealthy households) had knitted wool ("hoofy" socks) and - and! - they could make woolen onuchi. No idea when that started, but in 19 century peasants wore wool on their feet and ankles as often as they wore hemp, cotton and linen.

        But as well, we should remember that felt boots were most popular winter footwear, so it makes like this, wool+leather boots OR hemp/cotton/linen/nothing+felt boots.

        But, still - what did you mean by lapti pants?

        Bye,
        Alex
      • Tim Nalley
        Alexi, DOH! Wrong part of the appendage! I meant the portki. My question though is about the valenki, the felt boots. Have you found any mention of soles or
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 5, 2004
          Alexi,
          DOH! Wrong part of the appendage! I meant the
          portki. My question though is about the valenki, the
          felt boots. Have you found any mention of soles or
          pattens or spikes for ice in period in your research?
          I would also like to know whether the onuchi were worn
          INSIDE the valenki? I'm doing my wool and linen
          outfits right now and was curious.
          'dak
          --- "Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik" <Posadnik@...>
          wrote:
          >
          >
          > Greetings!
          > >
          > > Acyually he says that their "upper socks" were
          > cloth
          > > of gold, though he says nothing about the rest of
          > the
          > > sock in the boot. From the iconograpghy of the
          > period
          > > and some post period sources like Olearius, linen
          > and
          > > wool are much more common. What's your take,
          > Alexi?
          >
          > My take is like linen cloth (onuchi), in the way
          > shown in one Louvre (afair) Italian canvas with the
          > Archangel Michael's feet stomping the devil. Last
          > year I just failed to record from TV a 190*
          > documentary showing a peasant woman draping her feet
          > in the same way (the only difference was that the
          > archangel left his heels and toes undraped, and
          > Russian peasants covered them as well). That was for
          > summer. For winter they (no info about the imported
          > goods, just what they had in wealthy households) had
          > knitted wool ("hoofy" socks) and - and! - they could
          > make woolen onuchi. No idea when that started, but
          > in 19 century peasants wore wool on their feet and
          > ankles as often as they wore hemp, cotton and linen.
          >
          > But as well, we should remember that felt boots were
          > most popular winter footwear, so it makes like this,
          > wool+leather boots OR hemp/cotton/linen/nothing+felt
          > boots.
          >
          > But, still - what did you mean by lapti pants?
          >
          > Bye,
          > Alex
          >
          >
          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          > sig-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >


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        • Alexey Kiyaikin
          Greetings! Friday, March 05, 2004, 8:14:41 PM, you wrote: TN Alexi, TN DOH! Wrong part of the appendage! I meant the TN portki. My question though is
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 5, 2004
            Greetings!

            Friday, March 05, 2004, 8:14:41 PM, you wrote:

            TN> Alexi,
            TN> DOH! Wrong part of the appendage! I meant the
            TN> portki. My question though is about the valenki, the
            TN> felt boots. Have you found any mention of soles or
            Haven't, tyhough never dug the question deep enough.
            TN> pattens or spikes for ice in period in your research?
            No such stuff. Stiff sole (able to bear spikes)
            is a rather an OOP device for Russia. When
            you fare on snow, there's no need to use spikes. I'd say valenki had
            soles rather for longer durability but not for walking on hard
            pavements. Afair, the [mercenaries'] boots with metal on the soles were
            invented for stone-paved Western European roads. In Russia they never
            paved roads with stone in period.
            TN> I would also like to know whether the onuchi were worn
            TN> INSIDE the valenki? I'm doing my wool and linen
            Of course! It's the ancestor of all socks, I'd say.
            TN> outfits right now and was curious.
            TN> 'dak
            TN> --- "Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik" <Posadnik@...>
            TN> wrote:
            >>




            --
            Bye,
            Alex mailto:Posadnik@...
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