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Re: Name Question

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  • Griffin de Mohun
    Here is the cite: Grifina (f) -- Grifina, Polish queen, sister of Leshka Chernii. 1297. [Khr 262] Khr=Polnoe sobranie russkikh letopisei, Vol XXII (Pt 2):
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 2, 2004
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      Here is the cite:

      Grifina (f) -- Grifina, Polish queen, sister of Leshka Chernii.
      1297. [Khr 262]

      Khr=Polnoe sobranie russkikh letopisei, Vol XXII (Pt 2): Khronograf
      zapadno-russkoi redaktsii. Saint Petersburg: Tipografiia M. A.
      Aleksandrova, 1914.

      Found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/paul/g.html.

      Heck, I dont know enough about Polish history to know if she was a
      queen. ;) You guys are the experts. Just glad to know you should
      be able to make the name masculine.

      Griffin
    • P&MSulisz
      Hello, I m very sorry but I have to disagree with your source. Leszek II Czarny (Leshek II the Blake) born circa 1240-42 died 1288 was never a crowned king of
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 6, 2004
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        Hello,
        I'm very sorry but I have to disagree with your source.
        Leszek II Czarny (Leshek II the Blake) born circa 1240-42 died 1288 was
        never a crowned king of Poland. He was duke of Sieradz (1260), Leczyca
        (1260-1263), Inowroclaw (1273-1278), Krakow (Crakow) and Sandomierz (1279).
        In 1265 he married Gryfina daughter of Roscislaw duke of Halice, ban of
        Croatia and Maczwa (Matschva - I don't know English translations). Anyway
        Gryfina:
        1) was not a queen,
        2) was not Polish - although Slavic - the same is with her name...

        You should be very careful using old secondary sources. There is enough
        sources in Polish - the best (in my opinion) for 'regular' reader could be
        recently published: "Polska - dzieje cywilizacji i narodu" (Poland - history
        of the people and its civilization) in 6 Vol., Bertelsmann Media &
        Wydawnictwo Dolnoslaskie Warszawa-Wroclaw 2003. (www.swiatksiazki.pl or
        www.wd.wroc.pl )
        SCAdians could be most interested in 2 of them:
        vol.2 Monarchia Piastow 1038-1399 (Piast's Monarchy)
        vol.3 Monarchia Jagiellonow 1399-1586 (Jagiellonian Monarchy).
        It is not necessary to know Polish to benefit from this books a lot - they
        are full of colour illustrations. I'm very glad there is finally (after all
        those years!!!) kind of exellent encyclopedia of life, art and history of
        the people who used to live on the area of the present Poland. There you
        would find a lot pictures of the artefacts and genealogical tables.

        Witaj Leszku ze Szczytna,
        There is very nice castle of the Teutonic knight's in Szczytno.
        They had very interesting life here... Do you heve something in common with
        them ;)
        Your short summary of difficult relation of Polish people with their kings
        is very accurate :) although much better was in the Piast time than later.

        Magdalena z Wroclawia

        PS: 'portki' are traditionl wollen/felt pants of polish
        highlanders.


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Griffin de Mohun" <mohun1066@...>
        To: <sig@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 3:14 PM
        Subject: [sig] Re: Name Question


        > Here is the cite:
        >
        > Grifina (f) -- Grifina, Polish queen, sister of Leshka Chernii.
        > 1297. [Khr 262]
        >
        > Khr=Polnoe sobranie russkikh letopisei, Vol XXII (Pt 2): Khronograf
        > zapadno-russkoi redaktsii. Saint Petersburg: Tipografiia M. A.
        > Aleksandrova, 1914.
        >
        > Found at http://www.sca.org/heraldry/paul/g.html.
        >
        > Heck, I dont know enough about Polish history to know if she was a
        > queen. ;) You guys are the experts. Just glad to know you should
        > be able to make the name masculine.
        >
        > Griffin
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • noli_desiste
        So I had an entire day of nothing to do while trapped at the house waiting for the gas company to hook up my gas so I can have heat... (joy.) So I started
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 5, 2007
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          So I had an entire day of nothing to do while trapped at the house
          waiting for the gas company to hook up my gas so I can have heat...
          (joy.) So I started researching a name. After looking at the very
          little early information for women and just trying my darndest...
          this is what I came up with... I have decided I was born in Kiev
          around 940. I found a masculine form of a name I really liked and
          added an "a" for the feminine form. I found alot examples of that
          that went back to the 2d-3d centuries. I tried to pick a traditional
          name and make a simple patronymic (dad was born w/ dark hair and
          named Mavr.) Is this possibly passable? :

          Emiliana Mavra

          • Emelian (m) -- "flattering."
           Emelian. Lived in the 9th century. [Buk 18]


          • Mavr (m) -- "dark."
           Mavr, martyr. 3rd Century. [Buk 158]
          o Dims: Mavreshko. 1253. [Mor 117]
          o Pat Vars: Maurin (Iev Maurin). 1611-2. [RIB II 264]
          • Mavra (f) -- "dark." Fem of Mavr.
           Mavra, martyr. 13-14th Centuries. [Lev 41]
          o Dims: Mavritsa (Mavritsa Vasil'eva doch'). 1634-42. [RIB II
          734]


          Thank you!

          Emmie
        • Iustin Branov
          I am going to take a stab at this and say I don t think this quite fits. The Emiliana works fine. The problem seems to be with the Mavra . Mavra as is
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 5, 2007
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            I am going to take a stab at this and say I don't
            think this quite fits. The Emiliana works fine. The
            problem seems to be with the 'Mavra'. Mavra as is
            listed as a feminine variant in the dictionary would
            be as a given name. I think that what you would be
            going for here would be more along the lines of
            Emiliana Mavrova would work as an early period
            version. Slightly later would be Emliana Marvovicha.
            Paul also seems to suggest that something along the
            lines of Emiliana Mavrova doch' would also be
            appropriate. That is just what I get from my reading
            though. If I'm wrong, someone can correct me.

            Iustin

            --- noli_desiste <emmiewilliams@...> wrote:

            > So I had an entire day of nothing to do while
            > trapped at the house
            > waiting for the gas company to hook up my gas so I
            > can have heat...
            > (joy.) So I started researching a name. After
            > looking at the very
            > little early information for women and just trying
            > my darndest...
            > this is what I came up with... I have decided I was
            > born in Kiev
            > around 940. I found a masculine form of a name I
            > really liked and
            > added an "a" for the feminine form. I found alot
            > examples of that
            > that went back to the 2d-3d centuries. I tried to
            > pick a traditional
            > name and make a simple patronymic (dad was born w/
            > dark hair and
            > named Mavr.) Is this possibly passable? :
            >
            > Emiliana Mavra
            >
            > • Emelian (m) -- "flattering."
            >  Emelian. Lived in the 9th century. [Buk 18]
            >
            >
            >
            > • Mavr (m) -- "dark."
            >  Mavr, martyr. 3rd Century. [Buk 158]
            > o Dims: Mavreshko. 1253. [Mor 117]
            > o Pat Vars: Maurin (Iev Maurin). 1611-2. [RIB II
            > 264]
            > • Mavra (f) -- "dark." Fem of Mavr.
            >  Mavra, martyr. 13-14th Centuries. [Lev 41]
            > o Dims: Mavritsa (Mavritsa Vasil'eva doch').
            > 1634-42. [RIB II
            > 734]
            >
            >
            > Thank you!
            >
            > Emmie
            >
            >
            >


            K Tvoim Uslugam,
            Iustin

            ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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          • Paul W Goldschmidt
            I d say it depends on what you think the given name is. If you re registering Mavra as the given name, then Emiliana would be a fine patronymic, literally
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 5, 2007
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              I'd say it depends on what you think the given name is. If you're
              registering Mavra as the given name, then Emiliana would be a fine
              patronymic, literally "Emilian's Mavra." But I'm not quite buying
              Emiliana as a given name with Mavra as the patronymic. They're both
              weirdnesses.

              Thanks,
              Paul Wickenden

              At 04:10 PM 11/5/2007, you wrote:

              >I am going to take a stab at this and say I don't
              >think this quite fits. The Emiliana works fine. The
              >problem seems to be with the 'Mavra'. Mavra as is
              >listed as a feminine variant in the dictionary would
              >be as a given name. I think that what you would be
              >going for here would be more along the lines of
              >Emiliana Mavrova would work as an early period
              >version. Slightly later would be Emliana Marvovicha.
              >Paul also seems to suggest that something along the
              >lines of Emiliana Mavrova doch' would also be
              >appropriate. That is just what I get from my reading
              >though. If I'm wrong, someone can correct me.
              >
              >Iustin
              >
              >--- noli_desiste
              ><<mailto:emmiewilliams%40gmail.com>emmiewilliams@...> wrote:
              >
              > > So I had an entire day of nothing to do while
              > > trapped at the house
              > > waiting for the gas company to hook up my gas so I
              > > can have heat...
              > > (joy.) So I started researching a name. After
              > > looking at the very
              > > little early information for women and just trying
              > > my darndest...
              > > this is what I came up with... I have decided I was
              > > born in Kiev
              > > around 940. I found a masculine form of a name I
              > > really liked and
              > > added an "a" for the feminine form. I found alot
              > > examples of that
              > > that went back to the 2d-3d centuries. I tried to
              > > pick a traditional
              > > name and make a simple patronymic (dad was born w/
              > > dark hair and
              > > named Mavr.) Is this possibly passable? :


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Amy Tubbs
              Here is the link to Paul s webpage that tells how to make a Patronymic: http://www.sca.org/heraldry/paul/zgrammar.html I would recommend using Mavrova or
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 5, 2007
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                Here is the link to Paul's webpage that tells how to make a
                Patronymic: http://www.sca.org/heraldry/paul/zgrammar.html

                I would recommend using "Mavrova" or "Mavrova doch' ".

                A little trick I did when looking for female first names is to use the
                search feature on the webpage and enter (f) which is what Paul uses to
                denote female names. That way I could scroll through the plethora of
                male names to find the few female names.

                On Nov 5, 2007 1:58 PM, noli_desiste <emmiewilliams@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > So I had an entire day of nothing to do while trapped at the house
                > waiting for the gas company to hook up my gas so I can have heat...
                > (joy.) So I started researching a name. After looking at the very
                > little early information for women and just trying my darndest...
                > this is what I came up with... I have decided I was born in Kiev
                > around 940. I found a masculine form of a name I really liked and
                > added an "a" for the feminine form. I found alot examples of that
                > that went back to the 2d-3d centuries. I tried to pick a traditional
                > name and make a simple patronymic (dad was born w/ dark hair and
                > named Mavr.) Is this possibly passable? :
                >
                > Emiliana Mavra
                >
                > • Emelian (m) -- "flattering."
                >  Emelian. Lived in the 9th century. [Buk 18]
                >
                > • Mavr (m) -- "dark."
                >  Mavr, martyr. 3rd Century. [Buk 158]
                > o Dims: Mavreshko. 1253. [Mor 117]
                > o Pat Vars: Maurin (Iev Maurin). 1611-2. [RIB II 264]
                > • Mavra (f) -- "dark." Fem of Mavr.
                >  Mavra, martyr. 13-14th Centuries. [Lev 41]
                > o Dims: Mavritsa (Mavritsa Vasil'eva doch'). 1634-42. [RIB II
                > 734]
                >
                > Thank you!
                >
                > Emmie
                >
                >
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