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Re: wedding folksongs

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  • Jenn/Yana
    ... Yep! For Russia anyway, and probably for other Slavic cultures. Red is also favored for celebrations by many Middle Eastern cultures. --Yana
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 3, 1999
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      >Is a red sarafan/dress the traditional color for a
      >wedding outfit?
      >
      >Tasha

      Yep! For Russia anyway, and probably for other Slavic cultures. Red is
      also favored for celebrations by many Middle Eastern cultures.

      --Yana
    • Diane S. Sawyer
      ... Is a red sarafan/dress the traditional color for a wedding outfit? Tasha
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 3, 1999
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        --- Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2@...> wrote:
        > I am looking for the words/music/title of a Russian
        > folk song in which a
        > young girl is begging her mother to wait awhile
        > before sewing her red
        > sarafan/dress (delaying a little longer before
        > giving her away in
        > marriage). Just thinking about my own wedding...
        >
        > --Yana
        >

        Is a red sarafan/dress the traditional color for a
        wedding outfit?

        Tasha
      • Diane S. Sawyer
        ... Spiffy! Even my grammie (of excruciatingly English descent) wore a red dress at her wedding... now I have both family and historical precedent! Tasha not
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 3, 1999
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          --- Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2@...> wrote:
          > >Is a red sarafan/dress the traditional color for a
          > >wedding outfit?
          > >
          > >Tasha
          >
          > Yep! For Russia anyway, and probably for other
          > Slavic cultures. Red is
          > also favored for celebrations by many Middle Eastern
          > cultures.
          >
          > --Yana
          >

          Spiffy! Even my grammie (of excruciatingly English
          descent) wore a red dress at her wedding... now I have
          both family and historical precedent!

          Tasha
          not engaged yet... but gathering intelligence all the while.
        • Amanda Lewanski
          ... Tasha, getting engaged has *nothing* to do with intelligence.... --Alisandre
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 3, 1999
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            "Diane S. Sawyer" wrote:

            > Tasha
            > not engaged yet... but gathering intelligence all the while.

            Tasha, getting engaged has *nothing* to do with intelligence....

            --Alisandre
          • Jenn/Yana
            ... The idea of a white wedding is a Victorian construct (I wore dark blue at my modern wedding, thhpphhtt). Many of the world s cultures use white as a
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 3, 1999
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              >Spiffy! Even my grammie (of excruciatingly English
              >descent) wore a red dress at her wedding... now I have
              >both family and historical precedent!
              >
              >Tasha
              >not engaged yet... but gathering intelligence all the while.

              The idea of a "white wedding" is a Victorian construct (I wore dark blue at
              my modern wedding, thhpphhtt). Many of the world's cultures use white as
              a mourning color. I don't know about period Russia, but I know that for
              many Middle Eastern, Central Asian and Northern Asian (is there a better
              descriptive for this area?) <Chinese, Korean, and I think Japanese>
              cultures wear white to funerals. Comments and corrections are welcome.

              --Yana
            • Diane S. Sawyer
              ... I thought that was getting married. :-) Tasha
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 3, 1999
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                --- Amanda Lewanski <editor@...> wrote:
                > "Diane S. Sawyer" wrote:
                >
                > > Tasha
                > > not engaged yet... but gathering intelligence all
                > the while.
                >
                > Tasha, getting engaged has *nothing* to do with
                > intelligence....
                >
                > --Alisandre
                >

                I thought that was "getting married." :-)

                Tasha
              • Jenn Ridley
                ... and corresponded with the appearance of a true middle class (not just merchants and minor nobles). It was a way to show that the bride s family was
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 3, 1999
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                  Yana wrote:
                  >The idea of a "white wedding" is a Victorian construct
                  and corresponded with the appearance of a true middle class (not just
                  merchants and minor nobles). It was a way to show that the bride's
                  family was wealthy enough to provide a brand-new dress for the
                  bride...one that couldn't be worn again.

                  >(I wore dark blue at my modern wedding, thhpphhtt).
                  I wore white, but then, it was a middle-class Victorian-style wedding
                  (my MIL had a fit that my dad didn't "give me away"...and *then* she
                  saw my maid of honor's dress (black velvet for an afternoon wedding
                  (in 1989, when only the truly trendsetting were using black for the
                  bride's party))....)
                  (there. I think I closed all my parentheses.)

                  IIRC, many non-european cultures use white for mourning. I don't know
                  why the europeans prefer black for mourning. *something* else to find
                  out (in my copious spare time).

                  stasia
                • Kevin Brock
                  ... While I ve been lurking on this list for a while to simply have all the circulating info get soaked into my head, I thought I might actually have a chance
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 3, 1999
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                    > Jenn Ridley wrote:

                    > IIRC, many non-european cultures use white for mourning. I don't know
                    > why the europeans prefer black for mourning. *something* else to find
                    > out (in my copious spare time).

                    While I've been lurking on this list for a while to simply have all the
                    circulating info get soaked into my head, I thought I might actually have a
                    chance to help out with this comment. If I'm not mistaken, Albert died in
                    1861 and Queen Victoria mourned for approx. 40 years or so and began the
                    fashion of widows wearing black for mourning attire and jewelry. I'm not
                    quite sure how it spread to others, but I think that's the answer as far as
                    European widows are concerned.
                  • Jenn Ridley
                    ... Except that English women/families wore black for mourning before Victoria was even born. There are extant fashion plates showing full mourning and
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 3, 1999
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                      Kevin Brock wrote:
                      >
                      >While I've been lurking on this list for a while to simply have all the
                      >circulating info get soaked into my head, I thought I might actually have a
                      >chance to help out with this comment. If I'm not mistaken, Albert died in
                      >1861 and Queen Victoria mourned for approx. 40 years or so and began the
                      >fashion of widows wearing black for mourning attire and jewelry. I'm not
                      >quite sure how it spread to others, but I think that's the answer as far as
                      >European widows are concerned.

                      Except that English women/families wore black for mourning before
                      Victoria was even born. There are extant fashion plates showing "full
                      mourning" and "half mourning" from 1794. With jet beads and crosses,
                      too. (there are probably earlier ones, too, but that was the earliest
                      I found in a quick search of my bookmarks.)

                      stasia
                    • Kevin Brock
                      ... Well, in Richard II (Act V, Scene 6) is made this statement by Henry Bolingbroke: ... Come, mourn with me for that I do lament, And put on sullen black
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 3, 1999
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                        Jenn Ridley wrote:

                        > Except that English women/families wore black for mourning before
                        > Victoria was even born. There are extant fashion plates showing "full
                        > mourning" and "half mourning" from 1794.

                        Well, in Richard II (Act V, Scene 6) is made this statement by Henry
                        Bolingbroke:
                        ...
                        Come, mourn with me for that I do lament,
                        And put on sullen black incontinent:
                        I'll make a voyage to the Holy Land,
                        To wash this blood off from my guilty hand:
                        March sadly after; grace my mournings here;
                        In weeping after this untimely bier.

                        So even if the custom did not exist in the early 1400s with Henry IV, they were
                        at least alive and well in Shakespeare's time.

                        Also in Henry VI, Act II Scene 1 Richard states thus:
                        ...
                        Shall we go throw away our coats of steel,
                        And wrap our bodies in black mourning gowns,
                        Numbering our Ave-Maries with our beads?
                        ...

                        I suppose this is better, being 200 years or so before Victoria's time, at
                        least.
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