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Re: [sig] Polish liquor recipe

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  • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
    ... The idea that it is legal to distill any quantity of alcohol for home use _in the United States_ is an urban legend. The Federal Alcohol and Tobacco Tax
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 7, 2003
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      > Also, in the article you say it is illegal to distill
      > at home, I discovered from my husband, that it is
      > legal to distill up to 1 gallon of distilled alchohal
      > for personal use. I just haven't had the time to put
      > together a still!!

      The idea that it is legal to distill any quantity of alcohol for home use
      _in the United States_ is an urban legend. The Federal Alcohol
      and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau will be happy to tell you so.
      The SCA-Distilling list founders consulted the BATF several times about
      getting the required 'tax stamp' to distill but there was no way to do it.

      From the ATTTB website:

      "pirits
      You cannot produce spirits for beverage purposes without paying taxes and
      without prior approval of paperwork to operate a distilled spirits plant.
      [See 26 U.S.C. 5601 & 5602 for some of the criminal penalties.] There are
      numerous requirements that must be met that make it impractical to produce
      spirits for personal or beverage use. Some of these requirements are
      paying special tax, filing an extensive application, filing a bond,
      providing adequate equipment to measure spirits, providing suitable tanks
      and pipelines, providing a separate building (other than a dwelling) and
      maintaining detailed records, and filing reports. All of these
      requirements are listed in 27 CFR Part 19.

      Spirits may be produced for non-beverage purposes for fuel use only
      without payment of tax, but you also must file an application, receive
      TTB's approval, and follow requirements, such as construction, use,
      records and reports."

      Distilling of water and distilling for essential oils is allowed in some
      jurisdictions-- it's not banned by federal law.

      -- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
      "in verbis et in herbis, et in lapidibus sunt virtutes"
      (In words, and in plants, and in stones, there is power.)
    • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
      ... Sounds like mead (fermented honey drink), maybe? Maria Dembinska appears to have claimed that Mead was a high status drink among the Poles but generally
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 8, 2003
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        > I'm rather sure that vodka isn't period in Poland. I haven't found any
        > mention of it in period sources. It was custom to drink vine when the white
        > bread was on the table and beer with 'black' (rye) bread (the common
        > course). The most popular alkohol drink was dinking honey (kind of the
        > national drink), in all its kinds (with cherry, berrys, spices, etc).

        Sounds like mead (fermented honey drink), maybe? Maria Dembinska appears
        to have claimed that Mead was a high status drink among the Poles but
        generally more of a special occasion drink than a regular one... I can
        find the citation from her thesis but I've only read excerpts from it in
        translation.

        -- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
        "in verbis et in herbis, et in lapidibus sunt virtutes"
        (In words, and in plants, and in stones, there is power.)
      • redlocks999
        I m more partial to wild blackberry cordial as the berry is more abundant here in the Bay Area. I never made the Queen of Hungary water. The Medieval and
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 8, 2003
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          I'm more partial to wild blackberry cordial as the berry is more
          abundant here in the Bay Area. I never made the "Queen of Hungary
          water." The Medieval and Renaissance Brewing page is probably a good
          on-line source. I believe there is also a yahoo groups page for SCA
          brewers. I noticed someone mentioned blueberries? Also cherries
          soaked in Vodka which sounds scrumptious! Easier and lest costly than
          investing in distilling equipment...especially if like myself you
          live in a tiny garden flat in the city ; )

          Kind Regards, Julia

          http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/brewing.html

          --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, MoxFool@a... wrote:
          > In a message dated 10/7/2003 3:35:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
          > sig@yahoogroups.com writes:
          >
          > > Here are a couple of links &one recipe you may find helpful.
          > > Let us know how it turns out. I never got around to the "Queen of
          Hungary
          > > water" but it's a good website for documented source.
          >
          > Thanks! Which Hungary Water recipe would you recommend?
          >
          > Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski
          > Middle Kingdom, Barony of the Northwoods, <A
          HREF="http://www.midrealm.org/talonvale/">The Shire of Talonvale</A>
          > Ward to THL Albyn Buckthorne, C.B.R.
          > MOFIT, shire Rapier Marshal
          > "Knowledge speaks. Wisdom listens." Jimmi Hendrix
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tim Nalley
          Hi there from dak, I got a call from the Marshall in charge of the Moscovites and Mongols event next weekend. He enquired about Moscovite or Russian arms
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 8, 2003
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            Hi there from 'dak,
            I got a call from the Marshall in charge of the
            Moscovites and Mongols event next weekend. He enquired
            about Moscovite or Russian arms training, tourneys,
            martial challenges ect. that he could utilize at the
            event. I checked my resources last night and this
            morning but drew a blank. Can anyone shed some light
            on this? There has to be information, I'm just not up
            to speed.
            Also, does anyone have any ideas on sumptuary laws
            in codes? I was looking for Ivan IV's 1550 code
            without success but also checked the Domostroi and
            Rude and Barbarous Kingdom. Any suggestions or ideas
            woul be welcome and much appreciated!
            Back to work!!
            'dak

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          • John-Joseph Bober
            ... I was thinking the same thing. As I recall, my grandfather referred to mead as pity miod (sp?) which literaly translates to drinkable honey . There
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 8, 2003
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              > Sounds like mead (fermented honey drink), maybe?
              I was thinking the same thing. As I recall, my grandfather referred
              to "mead" as "pity miod" (sp?) which literaly translates
              to "drinkable honey".

              There is the reference in "The Trilogy" that mead is poison to those
              who aren't of gentle birth, but I'm willing to bet the "only for
              special occasions" evolved with time.

              Jan
            • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
              ... Dunno. When you consider how much more available the raw ingredients of beer are compared to honey... -- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 8, 2003
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                > There is the reference in "The Trilogy" that mead is poison to those
                > who aren't of gentle birth, but I'm willing to bet the "only for
                > special occasions" evolved with time.

                Dunno. When you consider how much more available the raw ingredients of
                beer are compared to honey...

                -- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
                "Somedays the struggle just gets tired..." -- Renee Senolges
              • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
                ... Yes, this makes sense. I ve had mead made with hops, it tastes very different to me than non-hopped mead which is the kind we usually drink here in the
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 8, 2003
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                  > > Sounds like mead (fermented honey drink),
                  > Probably this is a correct english word. In 'Poland' by Marcin Kromer (1575)
                  > it is written that it was "a honey boiled with hop and water" there is
                  > nothing about the fermentation but I think it is like in the case of the
                  > vine: everyone knows it is fermentated. There are a lot of period warnings
                  > of being drunk after drinking it.

                  Yes, this makes sense. I've had mead made with hops, it tastes very
                  different to me than non-hopped mead which is the kind we usually drink
                  here in the East Kingdom of the SCA.

                  > maybe? Maria Dembinska appears
                  > > to have claimed that Mead was a high status drink among the Poles but
                  > > generally more of a special occasion drink than a regular one...
                  > There was an abbys between the life of nobles and peasants. To understand it
                  > is a base to understand old Poland.
                  > Honey wasn't so exclusive like for example: Tokay (Hungarian vine - one of
                  > the favourites), or the other imported vines.

                  I'll have to go back and take a look at the Dembinska book

                  > I didn't find any example of peasant drinking honey or vine (exept some
                  > rituals). Beer was so common in a whole society that there was even a 'beer
                  > soup' (rather strange in taste for me). Beer wasn't considered an alcohol
                  > drink: even in convents nuns were given a few glasses everyday, and it was a
                  > real regular drink. But this beer was rather weak for our present
                  > standards...

                  Do the books make a differentiation between regular strength and weak beer
                  (what is called in English 'small beer' and in Russian 'kvas')?

                  > I have heard (I cant give you a source) that this 'Water of Queen of
                  > Hungary' was not to made to drink but for medical (cosmetic) purposes ;(

                  Yes, the information I could find indicated that it was first a medicinal
                  (to be applied and/or consumed), then a cosmetic (a scent). I didn't see
                  any mentions of it as a cordial.

                  -- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
                  "Somedays the struggle just gets tired..." -- Renee Senolges
                • Patrick Levesque
                  Don t know much about Poland, but my 17th century Romanian source does include a category of drinks called vutca . However, these are mostly cordials based on
                  Message 8 of 21 , Oct 8, 2003
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                    Don't know much about Poland, but my 17th century Romanian source does
                    include a category of drinks called 'vutca'.

                    However, these are mostly cordials based on wines or stronger spirits, and
                    do not refer to the distilled spirit itself. Now perhaps, since this is a
                    recipe book, it would only give variations or stuff to do with the drink,
                    yet without including instructions on how to make it.


                    Petru

                    (translation is over, by the way, I'm having it double checked, it should be
                    available soon)



                    >> Not sure if period (always the question if vodka is period for the SCA),
                    >> but some friends of mine simply steeped sour cherries in vodka (just
                    >> dropped in a goodly handful into the bottle and let set) and got a really
                    >> nice color and flavor.
                    >
                    > I'm rather sure that vodka isn't period in Poland. I haven't found any
                    > mention of it in period sources. It was custom to drink vine when the white
                    > bread was on the table and beer with 'black' (rye) bread (the common
                    > course). The most popular alkohol drink was dinking honey (kind of the
                    > national drink), in all its kinds (with cherry, berrys, spices, etc). Vines
                    > came from local vineyards (rather sour) , and imported from Hungary &
                    > Moravia.
                    > I don't know how to make drinking honey. The simplest way to get it is to
                    > go to the shop and buy it :) here in Poland, of course. There are a lot of
                    > polish shops in USA - it will be the easier way for you to have something
                    > 'period'.
                    > It is ussualy sold in old fashioned bottles and looks realy 'old polish'
                    > and tastes delicious!
                    > Magdalena of Vratislavia
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                  • Alzbeta Michalik
                    The introduction to the Cordials, Brandies, & Liqueurs chapter to Polish Heritage Cookery states: It was in 16th-century Poland, not Russia, that the world s
                    Message 9 of 21 , Oct 8, 2003
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                      The introduction to the Cordials, Brandies, & Liqueurs chapter to Polish
                      Heritage Cookery states:
                      "It was in 16th-century Poland, not Russia, that the world's first wódka
                      (literally: "little water") was distilled, giving rise to the nalewka
                      (homemade cordial) tradition that is still much in evidence today."

                      Since this is in direct conflict with other sources, and since the
                      source of this information was not provided, I can't say for certain if
                      cordials were period in Poland or not. However, here are a couple of
                      recipes to try anyway. The Polish translation is from the book.

                      Cherry Cordial the Traditional Way - wis'niówka tradycyjna
                      Pit, wash, and drain just over 2 lbs. dark sour cherries, leaving 5-6
                      cherries with pits intact. Place in jar. Add 1 heaping cup sugar and 2
                      cups spirits (190 proof grain alcohol) or 1 quart 100 proof vodka. Seal
                      and shake to mix ingredients and let stand at room temperature 3-4
                      months or even up to 6 months. Strain through cotton-filled funnel into
                      decanter. For greater clarity, strain into another bottle, let stand
                      one day, then strain again into decanter. Optional: At start of
                      process, mixture may be flavored with 4 cloves, 1 pinch cinnamon, or 1/4
                      - 1/2 teaspoon vanilla extract.

                      Polish Honey-Spice Cordial - krupnik polski
                      In small pot combine 1 cup water, 1/2 vanilla pod, 1/2 stick cinnamon,
                      1/4 teaspoon freshly grated nutmeg, 10-12 cloves, a pinch or two mace,
                      and bring to boil. When mixture is just about to boil, add 1 teaspoon
                      grated orange rind. Cover and set aside. Separately, bring to boil 2
                      cups honey and 1 cup water, skimming off scum until no more forms.
                      Remove from heat and switch off all heat sources. (Warning: There
                      should be no open flames around whenever pouring 190 proof grain
                      alcohol, because even its fumes can ignite!) Into hot honey mixture
                      stir 4 cups spirits and spice mixture including spices. Pour into clean
                      jar, seal, and let stand overnight. Next day pour through cotton-filled
                      funnel into bottle or serving carafe. This mellow and spicy cordial is
                      often served hot on Christmas Eve and is guaranteed to cast a nice, warm
                      glow over any gathering. It is also good at room temperature. To serve
                      hot, pour in pot and heat but do not boil. Optional: When heating
                      krupnik, you may add 2-3 Tablespoons butter, allowing it to melt. Some
                      regard the buttery version of krupnik as a good cold remedy.
                      Variation: A weaker krupnik can be made using 1 quart 100 proof vodka
                      instead of spirits.


                      I haven't actually tried either of these, but I intend to make some
                      krupnik for my family's Wigilia this year.

                      Pani Alzbeta


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • John-Joseph Bober
                      ... I ve made this one a couple of times, and I really like it. I tend not to spice it much, if at all. A word of warning, though, most modern cough syrup is
                      Message 10 of 21 , Oct 9, 2003
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                        > Cherry Cordial the Traditional Way
                        I've made this one a couple of times, and I really like it. I tend
                        not to spice it much, if at all. A word of warning, though, most
                        modern cough syrup is cherry flavored, so a lot of people will give
                        that as a first impression. On the other hand, at Pennsic last year
                        folks in my camp liked it so much we finished a bottle in an evening.

                        Jan - East
                      • P&MSulisz
                        ... I m rather sure that vodka isn t period in Poland. I haven t found any mention of it in period sources. It was custom to drink vine when the white bread
                        Message 11 of 21 , Oct 9, 2003
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                          > Not sure if period (always the question if vodka is period for the SCA),
                          > but some friends of mine simply steeped sour cherries in vodka (just
                          > dropped in a goodly handful into the bottle and let set) and got a really
                          > nice color and flavor.

                          I'm rather sure that vodka isn't period in Poland. I haven't found any
                          mention of it in period sources. It was custom to drink vine when the white
                          bread was on the table and beer with 'black' (rye) bread (the common
                          course). The most popular alkohol drink was dinking honey (kind of the
                          national drink), in all its kinds (with cherry, berrys, spices, etc). Vines
                          came from local vineyards (rather sour) , and imported from Hungary &
                          Moravia.
                          I don't know how to make drinking honey. The simplest way to get it is to
                          go to the shop and buy it :) here in Poland, of course. There are a lot of
                          polish shops in USA - it will be the easier way for you to have something
                          'period'.
                          It is ussualy sold in old fashioned bottles and looks realy 'old polish'
                          and tastes delicious!
                          Magdalena of Vratislavia
                        • P&MSulisz
                          ... Probably this is a correct english word. In Poland by Marcin Kromer (1575) it is written that it was a honey boiled with hop and water there is nothing
                          Message 12 of 21 , Oct 9, 2003
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                            >
                            > Sounds like mead (fermented honey drink),
                            Probably this is a correct english word. In 'Poland' by Marcin Kromer (1575)
                            it is written that it was "a honey boiled with hop and water" there is
                            nothing about the fermentation but I think it is like in the case of the
                            vine: everyone knows it is fermentated. There are a lot of period warnings
                            of being drunk after drinking it.

                            maybe? Maria Dembinska appears
                            > to have claimed that Mead was a high status drink among the Poles but
                            > generally more of a special occasion drink than a regular one...
                            There was an abbys between the life of nobles and peasants. To understand it
                            is a base to understand old Poland.
                            Honey wasn't so exclusive like for example: Tokay (Hungarian vine - one of
                            the favourites), or the other imported vines.
                            I didn't find any example of peasant drinking honey or vine (exept some
                            rituals). Beer was so common in a whole society that there was even a 'beer
                            soup' (rather strange in taste for me). Beer wasn't considered an alcohol
                            drink: even in convents nuns were given a few glasses everyday, and it was a
                            real regular drink. But this beer was rather weak for our present
                            standards...
                            I have heard (I cant give you a source) that this 'Water of Queen of
                            Hungary' was not to made to drink but for medical (cosmetic) purposes ;(

                            Magdalena of Vratislavia
                          • P&MSulisz
                            ... I haven t noticed, but I will try to check. ... As a skin tonic to preserve beauty :) I didn t see ... Me too. M. of Vratislavia
                            Message 13 of 21 , Oct 9, 2003
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                              > Do the books make a differentiation between regular strength and weak beer
                              > (what is called in English 'small beer' and in Russian 'kvas')?
                              I haven't noticed, but I will try to check.

                              >
                              > Yes, the information I could find indicated that it was first a medicinal
                              > (to be applied and/or consumed), then a cosmetic (a scent).
                              As a skin tonic to preserve beauty :)

                              I didn't see
                              > any mentions of it as a cordial.
                              Me too.
                              M. of Vratislavia
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