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Re: Slavic households

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  • Alastair Millar
    Patrick/Mikhail asks... ... I very much doubt that there is going to be a single answer applicable across the Slavonic world, in the same way as I doubt that
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 12, 2003
      Patrick/Mikhail asks...

      > what are the standards or conventions for
      > naming households with the Slavic culture.

      I very much doubt that there is going to be a single answer applicable
      across the Slavonic world, in the same way as I doubt that there was a
      single Slavic culture except in the very earliest times...

      > I mean what do you use in place of "House of"
      > or "Household" etc...

      In Czech, houses were initially most commonly named after the
      owner/occupant, or the trade conducted there. An example of the former is "U
      Mate'je" (Mate'j's house), and of the latter "U kolar'e" (the wheelwright's
      house).

      Later, they might be named for a prominent decorative feature - Prague has
      "U Z'elezneho muz'e" (At the (sign of the) Iron Man), the eponymous figure
      being a sculpture of a knight in full plate armour.

      From the High Middle Ages onwards, house ownership and/or the house name
      might also be shown by the addition of a house sign.The first house sign ("U
      cerne hvezdy"/ The Sign of the Black Star) is recorded in the Old Town of
      Prague in 1356, and a total of 16 are recorded prior to 1400. Paris, Rouen,
      Chartres, Cracow and various Bavarian and Austrian towns also seem to have
      adopted house signs in the 14th century, so Prague was not exceptional in
      this sense.

      By the 15th century there are records of 276 house signs in the Old Town, 44
      in the New Town and 12 in the Lesser Town.

      By the 16th and 17th centuries house signs were of vital importance in
      recording property transactions, and changes to them had to be officially
      approved and registered! Only in 1767 did the Viennese Court issued a decree
      to the effect that all houses in the lands of the Habsburg Monarchy had to
      be numbered, and it took several generations before people got used to the
      idea.

      By the 1880's, when the Prague Boroughs were finally merged to become the
      City of Prague, the city contained 2928 houses, which can be broken down as
      follows:
      Old Town: 936 houses, of which 422 had signs
      New Town: 1250 houses, of 206 had signs
      Lesser Town: 543 houses, of which 212 had signs
      Hradcany: 199 houses, of which 52 had signs.

      Note that sometimes a burgher family's surname might be taken from the sign,
      rather than the other way around! Although initially tending to follow
      heraldic rules (although they were not to be taken as heraldic devices in
      the true sense), house signs developed into an artistic medium in their own
      right. Houses therefore became known after the signs, which are very similar
      to English pub signs - "The Sign of the Three Feathers", "The Sign of the
      Gold Key" etc. etc.

      [Note: all of the information above is readily available in "Domovni znameni
      stare Prahy" by Lydia Petran'ova, published in Prague by Panorama in 1991,
      ISBN 80-7038-039-X, which has lengthy summaries in English, Russian, German
      and French.]

      Hope this helps

      Alastair


      -----------------------------------------------------
      Alastair Millar BSc (Hons) - http://www.skriptorium.info
      Translation & Consultancy for the Heritage Industry
      P.O. Box 11, CZ 413 01 Roudnice, Czech Republic
    • Patrick Jarrett
      Absolutely! Thanks for all the info, I apologize if I wasn t clear but that sort of stuff was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks to you all! Mikhail
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 12, 2003
        Absolutely! Thanks for all the info, I apologize if I wasn't clear but
        that sort of stuff was exactly what I was looking for.

        Thanks to you all!
        Mikhail

        [Edited by moderator. DO NOT quote entire messages in your posts, please.]
      • P&MSulisz
        Hello, ... I think that use of each of those terms indicates a different social position of a person (at least in Polish). Here are my first association: z
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 14, 2003
          Hello,

          Yana Wrote:
          > Dom (house/household)
          > Dvor (Yard/Courtyard, think "Scotland Yard" ;-)
          > Rod (clan/family)
          I think that use of each of those terms indicates a different social
          position of a person (at least in Polish). Here are my first association:
          'z domu' (of household/house) it will show that someone is a member of this
          family, or someone of this position;
          'z dworu' it will be probably servant of this 'dwor' (noble house)
          'z rodu' it will be someone noble= it is simple because 'rod' indicates
          noble or at least eminent (in anyway) family.
          Magdalena
        • John-Joseph Bober
          ... == From: P&MSulisz == Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:15:03 0200 ... This is great, but I have one question. Do we have any idea when
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 17, 2003
            -------- Original Message --------

            ==> From: "P&MSulisz" <pmsulisz@...>
            ==> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:15:03 0200

            >Yana Wrote:
            >> Dom (house/household)
            >> Dvor (Yard/Courtyard, think "Scotland Yard" ;-)
            >> Rod (clan/family)

            > I think that use of each of those terms indicates a different
            > social position of a person (at least in Polish). Here are my first
            > association: 'z domu' (of household/house) it will show that
            > someone is a member of this family, or someone of this position;
            > 'z dworu' it will be probably servant of this 'dwor' (noble
            > house) 'z rodu' it will be someone noble= it is simple
            > because 'rod' indicates noble or at least eminent (in anyway)
            > family.
            > Magdalena

            This is great, but I have one question. Do we have any idea when
            these terms started to be used? Especially "rod" and "dom". The
            Heralds are starting to sticky about such things. It may be the
            correct definition of the word, but is it the correct *medieval*
            definition.

            Jan
          • Yana
            ... Because newer members are moderated and my computer got lonely for all its new friends at the computer shop. Sorry, just got back my computer yesterday.
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 18, 2003
              >I also find that in XVc (and earliers) docs. the word 'dom' was used only to
              >denote a physical house/building. Not a family!
              >Magdalena
              >(I don't know why mine mails needs 4 days to come to sig-list...)


              Because newer members are moderated and my computer got lonely for all its
              new friends at the computer shop. Sorry, just got back my computer yesterday.

              --Yana
            • P&MSulisz
              ... From: John-Joseph Bober To: Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 3:55 PM Subject: Re: Re: [sig] Slavic
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 19, 2003
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "John-Joseph Bober" <jjbober4@...>
                To: <sig@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 3:55 PM
                Subject: Re: Re: [sig] Slavic households


                >
                > This is great, but I have one question. Do we have any idea when
                > these terms started to be used? Especially "rod" and "dom". The
                > Heralds are starting to sticky about such things. It may be the
                > correct definition of the word, but is it the correct *medieval*
                > definition.
                >
                The first usings of 'rod' in present meaning is testified in XVI c. I was
                looking of this word in earlier documents and find that instead of 'rod'
                they mention strange phrase 'moj/nasz klejnot' (mine/ours jewel) to testify
                someone's affiliation to a family. The phrase "he is ours jewel, and ours
                blood" was used like a oath formula at the courts, when somone had to prove
                his nobility, or his identity.
                It seems that in a case of non nobility they use only 'mine/ours blood' to
                prove the identity of a person.
                In Latin documents clerks used to use latin terms and in that language to
                express the idea of a rod/family was not a problem.

                I also find that in XVc (and earliers) docs. the word 'dom' was used only to
                denote a physical house/building. Not a family!
                Magdalena
                (I don't know why mine mails needs 4 days to come to sig-list...)
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