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Re: Turning Fergus Russian

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  • Dmitriy Ryaboy
    ... Predslava, your late period bias is showing :). The Khazar kaganate could be considered Russian Jewish -- it was not a part of Russia, but modern Russia
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 28 3:17 PM
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      Predslava wrote:
      > There were no Russian Jews in period.
      > There were Jews in Russia, but there were no Jewish communities in
      > Russia before Catherine the Great and the Third Division of Poland

      Predslava, your late period bias is showing :).
      The Khazar kaganate could be considered "Russian Jewish" -- it was not
      a part of Russia, but modern Russia includes the area that was once
      under Khazar dominion.
      Researching the Khazars is tricky, since it's a touchy subject for a
      variety of reasons, and most people who are interested enough in the
      khazars to put something in print or even on-line usually have a bias
      or an agenda of one sort or another. Here are some links to get you
      (Fergus, not Predslava) started:
      http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors/khazar.html
      http://www.geocities.com/kaganate
      http://www.khazaria.com
      Note that Khazar names would be quite different from Russian names, so
      most of Wickenden is not applicable (but more so than "Fergus" ;).

      -Dmitriy
    • MHoll@aol.com
      In a message dated 8/28/2003 5:20:16 PM Central Daylight Time, dvryaboy@hotmail.com writes: The Khazar kaganate could be considered Russian Jewish -- it was
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 28 6:38 PM
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        In a message dated 8/28/2003 5:20:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
        dvryaboy@... writes:
        The Khazar kaganate could be considered "Russian Jewish" -- it was not
        a part of Russia, but modern Russia includes the area that was once
        under Khazar dominion.
        No, wait a second, what kind of a bias are you accusing me of? Late-period?
        Me? As in favoring late period? ME??? Haven't I been vocal enough about how I
        dislike the late period???

        OK, enough badinage. Serious answer follows:

        I avoided the whole Khazar question for two very simple reasons:
        1) They were not Russian either ethnically, culturally, or linguistically.
        2) They were not Jewish in the sense that they were not descended from the
        Jews of the Middle East. They converted, and therefore they are rather outside
        the scope of Fergus's query.

        The Khazars just happened to live on a territory that became part of Russia.

        Predslava.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • marya kargashina
        yes, actually he is a redhead... marya kargashina ... really ... would ... can
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 28 8:19 PM
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          yes, actually he is a redhead...

          marya kargashina

          > 16th century the name would mean "the handsome" or "the red". If you
          really
          > want "the red" as in "red head" (is he? I'm assuming here), a better word
          would
          > be "ryzhii" (which appears in Paul's dictionary spelled "ryzhei" but you
          can
          > take my word for it that "-ii" is the more common spelling; documentable,
          > should the need arise).
        • "Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik"
          Greetings! ... Predslava I usually hate to have argument wih you cause we do not share same sources. But - Dmitry, could you find my brief referral on the
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 28 11:53 PM
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            Greetings!


            > OK, enough badinage. Serious answer follows:
            >
            > I avoided the whole Khazar question for two very simple reasons:
            > 1) They were not Russian either ethnically, culturally, or linguistically.
            > 2) They were not Jewish in the sense that they were not descended from the
            > Jews of the Middle East. They converted, and therefore they are rather outside
            > the scope of Fergus's query.
            >
            > The Khazars just happened to live on a territory that became part of Russia.

            Predslava I usually hate to have argument wih you 'cause we do not share same sources. But -

            Dmitry, could you find my brief referral on the special Rus-Jew issue of Rodina in the Kaganate list? Afair, the thing I mean was mentioned by me then -

            There was a bunch of RUSSIAN nicknames in a Jew-biased message found in the Kievan region, that led the historians tj the statement there was plenty of Jew Russians to be considered Jews by faith though they were Russians by biological (maybe even social&&&) origin. It's about mid-2002.

            Dmitry, alas, I have no time to subscribe me and you for the second half of 2003. Afair Akademicheskaya Kniga makes the subscription in the US. At least try contact them, as I may miss some issues buying them and not subscribing to. The package with the Rodinas is due to start out for you to\morrow morning. At last I earn enough to do it.
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