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Re: Polish Court?

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  • MoxFool@aol.com
    In a message dated 7/14/2003 9:13:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ... I had heard this too, but thought it applied mostly to immigrants here in the USA. Zygmunt
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 14, 2003
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      In a message dated 7/14/2003 9:13:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
      sig@yahoogroups.com writes:

      > The -ski is indeed a sign of nobility but I was led to believe that
      > most folks had added it to their name in the 18th century. A classic
      > example is the name Kowalski. Kowal is Carpenter and Ski would make
      > him or her a royal carpenter. Now although there probably are
      > carpenters attached to the royal household. The name is so used now
      > that most historians agree it's a false title. Other name endings
      > I've seek are -ki, -ka, or perhaps just using the title of Pan.
      >
      > just a thought.

      I had heard this too, but thought it applied mostly to immigrants here in the
      USA.

      Zygmunt Nadratowo "L/otrzyk (the rogue)"
      MOFIT, Mid/Northwoods/Talonval, shire Rapier Marshal
      "One wishing to play must always attach himself to the most valorous of deed
      and reputation. Because...the glory of the victor depends on the valor of the
      vanquished." Manciolino, fencing master, 1531.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • MoxFool@aol.com
      Subject: Re: Polish Court ... From: ... at the  time.
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 15, 2003
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        <<   Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:33:41 +0200
           From: "P&MSulisz" <pmsulisz@...>
        Subject: Re: Polish Court


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <MoxFool@...>


        >Sorry for the weird wording. The date I am working with is 1579. I want to
        >either serve the King (Stefan Bathory, or one of the Magnates or >Wojewoda
        at the  time.

        1579 - the great expedition against Pol/ock. In the army of 56.000 soldiers
        were in great number squads of Latvia, Hungary, Scotia and Germany. The
        commander of this army was the king personally, and was equipped with a help
        of:* 'hetman wielki koronny' (I dont know the English equivalent, something
        like the great hetman of a crown) Mikol/aj Mielecki,
        *and two Latvian hetmans: the great one Mikol/aj Rudy (the Red) Radziwil/l/,
        and the field one Krzysztof Radziwil/l/, called Piorun (the Thunder),
        *Jan Zamoyski  - Wielki Kanclerz (the Great Chancellor)
        * and famous Hungarian general Kaspar Bekiesz.>>

        Wow, fantastic! What is the source of this?


        <<I think you can serve - with the a big possibility -  under Jan Zamoyski,
        very great lord (he established a town Zamosc), and famous general.>>

        Excellent!

        <<> my AoA. :D

        What is this?>>

        It is an abbreviation for an Award of Arms. In the SCA, it's (usually) the
        first award you get, and allows you to be called Lord or Lady.


        <<PS: It is good idea to learn Latin first than Polish. :)
        Tomorrow I leave for 3 weeks so I will have no contact with te web.
        If you have any questions - ask me please! But I will be able to answer them
        after 3 weeks (in best case :))>>

        Well, talk to you then. Thanks for the help Magdelena!


        Zygmunt Nadratowo "L/otrzyk (the rogue)"
        MOFIT, Mid/Northwoods/Talonval, shire Rapier Marshal
        "One wishing to play must always attach himself to the most valorous of deed
        and reputation. Because...the glory of the victor depends on the valor of the
        vanquished." Manciolino, fencing master, 1531.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Rick Orli
        You should check out the movie Iron hand for this period, you can get it (subtitled) from places like Polart. The costumes seem to my eyes to be more like
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 15, 2003
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          You should check out the movie 'Iron hand' for this period, you can
          get it (subtitled) from places like Polart.
          The costumes seem to my eyes to be more like early 1600s than 1570,
          however. 'hetman wielki koronny' is the Great hetman (marshall) of
          the Crown, in contrast to Field Hetman, 2nd in command but sometimes
          younger/stronger and in fact often the actual guy sent to lead armies
          in the field. in contrast also to Great hetman of lithuania, 'korona'
          refering specifically to the Polish Crown part of the commonwealth
          rather than ducal Lithuania. number 3 rank is either Equiery (master
          of horse) or General of Artillery.
          -Rick

          --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, MoxFool@a... wrote:
          > <<   Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:33:41 +0200
          >    From: "P&MSulisz" <pmsulisz@o...>
          > Subject: Re: Polish Court
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: <MoxFool@a...>
          >
          >
          > >Sorry for the weird wording. The date I am working with is 1579. I
          want to
          > >either serve the King (Stefan Bathory, or one of the Magnates or
          >Wojewoda
          > at the  time.
          >
          > 1579 - the great expedition against Pol/ock. In the army of 56.000
          soldiers
          > were in great number squads of Latvia, Hungary, Scotia and Germany.
          The
          > commander of this army was the king personally, and was equipped
          with a help
          > of:* 'hetman wielki koronny' (I dont know the English equivalent,
          something
          > like the great hetman of a crown) Mikol/aj Mielecki,
          > *and two Latvian hetmans: the great one Mikol/aj Rudy (the Red)
          Radziwil/l/,
          > and the field one Krzysztof Radziwil/l/, called Piorun (the
          Thunder),
          > *Jan Zamoyski  - Wielki Kanclerz (the Great Chancellor)
          > * and famous Hungarian general Kaspar Bekiesz.>>
          >
          > Wow, fantastic! What is the source of this?
          >
          >
          > <<I think you can serve - with the a big possibility -  under Jan
          Zamoyski,
          > very great lord (he established a town Zamosc), and famous
          general.>>
          >
          > Excellent!
          >
          > <<> my AoA. :D
          >
          > What is this?>>
          >
          > It is an abbreviation for an Award of Arms. In the SCA, it's
          (usually) the
          > first award you get, and allows you to be called Lord or Lady.
          >
          >
          > <<PS: It is good idea to learn Latin first than Polish. :)
          > Tomorrow I leave for 3 weeks so I will have no contact with te web.
          > If you have any questions - ask me please! But I will be able to
          answer them
          > after 3 weeks (in best case :))>>
          >
          > Well, talk to you then. Thanks for the help Magdelena!
          >
          >
          > Zygmunt Nadratowo "L/otrzyk (the rogue)"
          > MOFIT, Mid/Northwoods/Talonval, shire Rapier Marshal
          > "One wishing to play must always attach himself to the most
          valorous of deed
          > and reputation. Because...the glory of the victor depends on the
          valor of the
          > vanquished." Manciolino, fencing master, 1531.
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kythe
          This sounds very much like the Roman Master of the Horse who was a General. I find the contrast odd since we really don t hear a lot from Rome about their
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 16, 2003
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            This sounds very much like the Roman "Master of the Horse" who was a
            General. I find the contrast odd since we really don't hear a lot
            from Rome about their contacts with "Polonia" as they call it in
            their histories.

            to paraphrase:

            "Hey Bratos, what's over there in that field"
            "People, Luctus"
            "Got anything of value?"
            "No, just farmers with clay pots and necklaces made of stones"
            "Ok let's move on"



            --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Orli" <orlirva@y...> wrote: number
            3 rank is either Equiery (master
            > of horse) or General of Artillery.
            > -Rick
            >
          • Rick Orli
            Rather an intentional imitation of roman and greek institutions on the part of folks who read and appreciated the classics. Every middling and larger estate
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 16, 2003
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              Rather an intentional imitation of roman and greek institutions on
              the part of folks who read and appreciated the classics. Every
              middling and larger estate had an Equerry; the king's Equerry was
              also a senior cavalry general.
              -Rick
              --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Kythe" <jester@h...> wrote:
              > This sounds very much like the Roman "Master of the Horse" who was
              a
              > General. I find the contrast odd since we really don't hear a lot
              > from Rome about their contacts with "Polonia" as they call it in
              > their histories.
              >
              > to paraphrase:
              >
              > "Hey Bratos, what's over there in that field"
              > "People, Luctus"
              > "Got anything of value?"
              > "No, just farmers with clay pots and necklaces made of stones"
              > "Ok let's move on"
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Orli" <orlirva@y...> wrote:
              number
              > 3 rank is either Equiery (master
              > > of horse) or General of Artillery.
              > > -Rick
              > >
            • P&MSulisz
              Hello, ... From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [sig] Polish Court? ... soldiers were in great
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 12, 2003
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                Hello,
                I'm back here, so I can answer your question:

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <MoxFool@...>
                To: <sig@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:55 PM
                Subject: Re: [sig] Polish Court?





                >>1579 - the great expedition against Pol/ock. In the army of 56.000
                soldiers
                were in great number squads of Lithuania, Hungary, Scotland and Germany. The
                commander of this army was the king personally, and was equipped with a help
                of:* 'hetman wielki koronny' (I dont know the English equivalent, something
                like the great hetman of a crown) Mikol/aj Mielecki,
                *and two Latvian hetmans: the great one Mikol/aj Rudy (the Red) Radziwil/l/,
                and the field one Krzysztof Radziwil/l/, called Piorun (the Thunder),
                *Jan Zamoyski - Wielki Kanclerz (the Great Chancellor)
                * and famous Hungarian general Kaspar Bekiesz.>>

                >Wow, fantastic! What is the source of this?

                The source is of course in Polish:
                "Polska, dzieje cywilizacji i narodu (Poland, the history of nation and
                culture)", vol. 3 "Monarchia Jagiellonów" (Monarchy of Jagiellonians)
                1399-1586", red. Marek Derwich. Published by: Bertelsmann & Wydawnictwo
                Dolnoslaskie, Warszawa-Wroclaw 2003

                Magdalena of Vratislavia
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