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  • Kinjal of Moravia
    Sorry to be a pest. In my research into Prince Vladimir I found references to his two assissinated sons, Boris and Gleb, called the Passion Sufferers . Can
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 5, 2003
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      Sorry to be a pest. In my research into Prince Vladimir I found
      references to his two assissinated sons, Boris and Gleb, called
      the "Passion Sufferers". Can anyone provide more info?

      Also, I found references to the "Mordvinans". Can anyone help here?

      Kinjal
    • shannon anderson
      ... Yes! Boris and Gleb were the sons of Vladimir, they were killed by their brother Svietapolk in a power struggle for rule. They were made saints b/c as some
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 6, 2003
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        >references to his two assissinated sons, Boris and
        > Gleb, called the "Passion Sufferers". Can anyone
        >provide more info?
        Yes! Boris and Gleb were the sons of Vladimir, they
        were killed by their brother Svietapolk in a power
        struggle for rule. They were made saints b/c as some
        stories describe, they didn't fight back. They made
        the sacrifice of resisting violence and allowing their
        brother to kill them and rule. Svietapolk was later
        condemned and killed for this. I have this great book
        called "Medieval Russia: epics chronicles and tales"
        by Zenkovsky. There are some great "lives of saints"
        translated in here, as well as a nice description of
        the rise of Orthodoxy in Kiev Rus.

        > Also, I found references to the "Mordvinans". Can
        > anyone help here?
        My guess is Turkic tribe, but I am sure that this book
        talked about them, I just can't remember.

        NB: about this book, it is actually the book they use
        to teach Russian Civilization at the University of
        Chicago, so knowing what I do about their slavic
        department, it has to be somewhat good. ;)

        -Margarita



        =====
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        "What saves man is to take a step. Then another step. It is always the same step, but you have to take it."
        -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        Shannon Anderson
        kitonlove@...

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      • Alex Grant [T]
        Boris and Gleb were killed by their brother Sviatopolk, who wanted to rule Kiev unchallenged. Here s an account from the chronicles:
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 6, 2003
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          Boris and Gleb were killed by their brother Sviatopolk, who wanted to rule
          Kiev unchallenged.
          Here's an account from the chronicles:
          http://www.dur.ac.uk/~dml0www/borigleb.html
          Passion sufferers (also passion bearers) means they suffered death
          innocently for their faith in Christ. It's the lowest "rank" in sainthood.

          Mordva is a tribe related to the Finns but who lived in the woods east of
          Murom.


          > Sorry to be a pest. In my research into Prince Vladimir I found
          > references to his two assissinated sons, Boris and Gleb, called
          > the "Passion Sufferers". Can anyone provide more info?
          >
          > Also, I found references to the "Mordvinans". Can anyone help here?
          >
          > Kinjal
        • Alexey Kiyaikin
          Greetings Kinjal! Thursday, June 05, 2003, 9:31:41 PM, you wrote: KoM Also, I found references to the Mordvinans .  Mordva, the Finno-Ugrian nation.
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 6, 2003
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            Greetings Kinjal!

            Thursday, June 05, 2003, 9:31:41 PM, you wrote:


            KoM> Also, I found references to the "Mordvinans". 

            Mordva, the Finno-Ugrian nation. Actually, falls into never-mixing
            sub-nations, Erzya & Moksha. In modern Russia they occupy the
            territory between Moscow & Penza, also some regions of Tatarstan &
            Chuvashia. Capital city is Saransk, they ever lived there. Reddish
            colors of Penza & Ryazan women clothes is somehow the trace of the
            original Mordva & other Finnish nations of the territory. Thjey were
            ever the pain-in the, ergm, back for all rulers, keeping some
            independence under Russians, Bulgars, Mongols and even post-Mongol
            Russians. They were too deep in the woods and too easy to strike back
            to conquer them easily.

            --
            Bye,
            Alex mailto:Posadnik@...
          • Alastair Millar
            Shannon writes... ... Interestingly, their relics (or some of them) ended up for reasons obscure in the Sazava monastery in south Bohemia. Why is this
            Message 5 of 5 , Jun 8, 2003
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              Shannon writes...

              > [Boris & Gleb] were made saints b/c as some
              > stories describe, they didn't fight back. They
              > made the sacrifice of resisting violence and
              > allowing their brother to kill them

              Interestingly, their relics (or some of them) ended up for reasons obscure
              in the Sazava monastery in south Bohemia. Why is this interesting? Because
              Sazava retained the use of Old Church Slavonic long after it was supposedly
              proscribed - and seems from textual evidence to have retained contacts with
              the Russians.

              Welcome to the list, btw ;-)

              Alastair

              ---------------------------
              Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons) - alastair@...
              Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
              P.O.Box 11, CZ 413 01 Roudnice, Czech Republic
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