Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [sig] Legacy of Ghengis Khan

Expand Messages
  • Alexey Kiyaikin
    Greetings ... jfn examine six artifacts, _Shah Zav Enthroned_, a page from the Great Mongol jfn Shahnama (Book of Kings); a white marble Dragon Protome, from
    Message 1 of 5 , May 1, 2003
      Greetings

      Monday, April 28, 2003, 11:34:23 PM, you wrote:

      > The Web version of the exhibition allows visitors to closely
      jfn> examine six artifacts, _Shah Zav Enthroned_, a page from the Great Mongol
      jfn> Shahnama (Book of Kings); a white marble Dragon Protome, from a building

      I haven't visited the site yet. But: did you really mean Shah Nameh?
      Persian Shah Nameh? Who the Smokey can the person be, if he makes a
      story of Mongolian heritage, exhibiting a page from a worldwide-known
      PERSIAN epic poem written by a Persian poet Firdousi? Phuh! Mongolian! Great German
      drink champagne! Famous Swiss whisky! Arnold Schwarzenegger, a chinese ballet star!


      --
      Bye,
      Alex mailto:Posadnik@...
    • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
      ... The review was written by someone at the review source, Alexey, not by me. ... Alexey, it would be the mark of a poor scholar to jump to conclusions about
      Message 2 of 5 , May 2, 2003
        > > The Web version of the exhibition allows visitors to closely
        > jfn> examine six artifacts, _Shah Zav Enthroned_, a page from the Great Mongol
        > jfn> Shahnama (Book of Kings); a white marble Dragon Protome, from a building
        >
        > I haven't visited the site yet. But: did you really mean Shah Nameh?

        The review was written by someone at the review source, Alexey, not by me.

        > Persian Shah Nameh? Who the Smokey can the person be, if he makes a
        > story of Mongolian heritage, exhibiting a page from a worldwide-known
        > PERSIAN epic poem written by a Persian poet Firdousi? Phuh! Mongolian! Great German
        > drink champagne! Famous Swiss whisky! Arnold Schwarzenegger, a chinese ballet star!

        Alexey, it would be the mark of a poor scholar to jump to conclusions
        about a resource sight unseen. Just as there are Arabic minatures that
        tell us a good deal about the conquest of Hungary and of Hungarian
        culture around the time of Mohacs, illuminated pages can tell us more
        about the people who illuminated the pictures than about the original
        text, under some circumstances.

        The title of the exhibition is not 'Mongolian Heritage', Alexei.
        It's "The Legacy of Genghis Khan: Courtly Arts and Culture in Western
        Asia, 1256.1353"

        The theme of the exhibit, taken from the web page for the exhibit: "he
        landmark traveling exhibition "The Legacy of Genghis Khan: Courtly Arts
        and Culture in Western Asia, 1256.1353" explores the influence of China's
        Yuan dynasty, founded by Kublai Khan (a grandson of Genghis Khan), on the
        art and culture of Iran's Ilkhanid dynasty, founded by Hülegü (another of
        his grandsons). On view are some 200 works from museums and collections
        worldwide, including rare textiles, ceramics, jewelry and metalwork, works
        in stone and wood, and outstanding examples of the art of the book. "

        The pages are from a particular manuscript dating from the Mongol :
        [Quoting from the exhibtion]:" Pages from the Great Mongol Shahnama
        (Book of Kings). Iran (probably Tabriz), 1330s
        Ink, colors, and gold on paper"

        The people who put together this exhibit say:
        " Of particular note are two royal Ilkhanid manuscripts.the Jamic
        al-tavarikh (the first-ever "History of the World," two volumes of which
        have survived) and the Great Mongol Shahnama (Book of Kings). The choice
        of specific episodes of the Shahnama for illustration and the recasting of
        Iranian heroes in the guise and costume of Mongol rulers indicate that
        these works served the political purpose of legitimizing the ruling elite.
        Large sections of both manuscripts are being reunited specifically for
        this exhibition."



        -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa jenne@...
        "American boys should not be seen dying on the nightly news. Wars should be
        over in three days or less, or before Congress invokes the War Powers
        Resolution. Victory must be assured in advance. And the American public
        must be all for it from the outset." -- Evan Thomas
      • Alexey Kiyaikin
        Greetings Jadwiga! Friday, May 02, 2003, 5:22:55 PM, you wrote: jfn The pages are from a particular manuscript dating from the Mongol : jfn [Quoting from the
        Message 3 of 5 , May 5, 2003
          Greetings Jadwiga!

          Friday, May 02, 2003, 5:22:55 PM, you wrote:


          jfn> The pages are from a particular manuscript dating from the Mongol :
          jfn> [Quoting from the exhibtion]:"   Pages from the Great Mongol Shahnama
          jfn> (Book of Kings). Iran (probably Tabriz), 1330s
          jfn> Ink, colors, and gold on paper"
          I'd just recall the sheer fact that as in Khalifate times Persians &
          the Tajick bore 99% work of science & culture, and the greatest
          majority of scholars (and poets as well) were called Arabic but were
          Tajick or Persian by birth & language. Thus, isn't it a too bold
          statement that Persia simply devoured the invaders rather than was
          influenced by them? Persia had too strong cultural links with China,
          especially eastern (Western Turkestan/Sinjan), to explain all the
          changes by Mongolian influence. I'd say the musicians played the same
          tune despite all changes of the band-master.

          jfn> The people who put together this exhibit say:
          jfn> " Of particular note are two royal Ilkhanid manuscripts.the Jamic
          jfn> al-tavarikh (the first-ever "History of the World," two volumes of which
          jfn> have survived) and the Great Mongol Shahnama (Book of Kings). The choice
          jfn> of specific episodes of the Shahnama for illustration and the recasting of
          jfn> Iranian heroes in the guise and costume of Mongol rulers indicate that
          jfn> these works served the political purpose of legitimizing the ruling elite.
          jfn> Large sections of both manuscripts are being reunited specifically for
          jfn> this exhibition."
          And isn't it saying by itself that not "Secret story of the Mongols"
          was illuminated, but the extremely native "Shakh-Nameh"? The artists
          even by the choice of their art theme told the invaders for another
          time that it was them who had to change, absorbing ages of highest
          culture. AFAIR Timurid empire was the first to drop the Mongol dynasty
          and to start the dynasty of their own.



          --
          Bye,
          Alex mailto:Posadnik@...
        • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
          ... Certainly the artifacts I saw in the exhibit were Mongol influenced, whether or not the Mongol influence lasted I do not know, not being an art historian.
          Message 4 of 5 , May 6, 2003
            > I'd just recall the sheer fact that as in Khalifate times Persians &
            > the Tajick bore 99% work of science & culture, and the greatest
            > majority of scholars (and poets as well) were called Arabic but were
            > Tajick or Persian by birth & language. Thus, isn't it a too bold
            > statement that Persia simply devoured the invaders rather than was
            > influenced by them? Persia had too strong cultural links with China,
            > especially eastern (Western Turkestan/Sinjan), to explain all the
            > changes by Mongolian influence. I'd say the musicians played the same
            > tune despite all changes of the band-master.

            Certainly the artifacts I saw in the exhibit were Mongol influenced,
            whether or not the Mongol influence lasted I do not know, not being an art
            historian.

            I would agree that it would be incorrect to say that Persia simply
            devoured the invaders and was NOT influenced by them at all.

            > jfn> The people who put together this exhibit say:
            > jfn> " Of particular note are two royal Ilkhanid manuscripts.the Jamic
            > jfn> al-tavarikh (the first-ever "History of the World," two volumes of which
            > jfn> have survived) and the Great Mongol Shahnama (Book of Kings). The choice
            > jfn> of specific episodes of the Shahnama for illustration and the recasting of
            > jfn> Iranian heroes in the guise and costume of Mongol rulers indicate that
            > jfn> these works served the political purpose of legitimizing the ruling elite.
            > jfn> Large sections of both manuscripts are being reunited specifically for
            > jfn> this exhibition."
            > And isn't it saying by itself that not "Secret story of the Mongols"
            > was illuminated, but the extremely native "Shakh-Nameh"?

            No, especially when you consider, for instance, the matierals that were
            illuminated by Christians that they recieved from the Arabs.

            > The artists
            > even by the choice of their art theme told the invaders for another
            > time that it was them who had to change, absorbing ages of highest
            > culture.

            I don't read minds, let alone possess a time machine, nor am I an expert
            on the history of Arabic culture or on art history, so I am not qualified
            to speak on the subject of what the artists intended.

            >AFAIR Timurid empire was the first to drop the Mongol dynasty
            > and to start the dynasty of their own.

            Many changes in Arabic dynasties took place during the medieval period,
            that I know from reading Atlas of Medieval Europe.

            -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa jenne@...
            "I'm tired. I'm tired of feeling rejected by the American people. I'm
            tired of waking up in the middle of the night worrying about the war."
            -- L.B. Johnson
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.