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Legacy of Ghengis Khan

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  • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
    Oh Wow! Take a look at this site, if your computer is flash capable: (Reviewed in Internet Scout Report): 11. The Legacy of Genghis Khan [Flash 5]
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 28, 2003
      Oh Wow! Take a look at this site, if your computer is flash capable:

      (Reviewed in Internet Scout Report):
      "11. The Legacy of Genghis Khan [Flash 5]
      http://www.lacma.org/khan/index_flash.htm

      Genghis Kahn, the 13th century ruler who unified the Mongol people,
      created an invincible army that swept across Asia and established an
      empire extending from Korea to Hungary. This exhibition from the Los
      Angeles County Museum of Art presents the other legacy of Genghis Kahn,
      the "manuscript illustrations, opulent decorative arts, and splendid
      architectural elements" that document the cultural cross-fertilization
      that occurred when western and eastern Asia were united as the Mongol
      Empire. The Web version of the exhibition allows visitors to closely
      examine six artifacts, _Shah Zav Enthroned_, a page from the Great Mongol
      Shahnama (Book of Kings); a white marble Dragon Protome, from a building
      at Xanadu; a stone grave marker carved with peonies, clouds, and scrolls;
      a brush painting showing six horses; a gold and blue textile fragment; and
      a blue and white porcelain wine jar. The two-dimensional items are almost
      more fun to explore than the sculptures, because the site is programmed
      with a DetailZoom, a tool that allows users can hone in on particular
      sections of each piece, view explanatory captions, and then back up and
      see the whole artifact. [DS]"

      -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa jenne@...
      "American boys should not be seen dying on the nightly news. Wars should be
      over in three days or less, or before Congress invokes the War Powers
      Resolution. Victory must be assured in advance. And the American public
      must be all for it from the outset." -- Evan Thomas
    • Alexey Kiyaikin
      Greetings ... jfn examine six artifacts, _Shah Zav Enthroned_, a page from the Great Mongol jfn Shahnama (Book of Kings); a white marble Dragon Protome, from
      Message 2 of 5 , May 1, 2003
        Greetings

        Monday, April 28, 2003, 11:34:23 PM, you wrote:

        > The Web version of the exhibition allows visitors to closely
        jfn> examine six artifacts, _Shah Zav Enthroned_, a page from the Great Mongol
        jfn> Shahnama (Book of Kings); a white marble Dragon Protome, from a building

        I haven't visited the site yet. But: did you really mean Shah Nameh?
        Persian Shah Nameh? Who the Smokey can the person be, if he makes a
        story of Mongolian heritage, exhibiting a page from a worldwide-known
        PERSIAN epic poem written by a Persian poet Firdousi? Phuh! Mongolian! Great German
        drink champagne! Famous Swiss whisky! Arnold Schwarzenegger, a chinese ballet star!


        --
        Bye,
        Alex mailto:Posadnik@...
      • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
        ... The review was written by someone at the review source, Alexey, not by me. ... Alexey, it would be the mark of a poor scholar to jump to conclusions about
        Message 3 of 5 , May 2, 2003
          > > The Web version of the exhibition allows visitors to closely
          > jfn> examine six artifacts, _Shah Zav Enthroned_, a page from the Great Mongol
          > jfn> Shahnama (Book of Kings); a white marble Dragon Protome, from a building
          >
          > I haven't visited the site yet. But: did you really mean Shah Nameh?

          The review was written by someone at the review source, Alexey, not by me.

          > Persian Shah Nameh? Who the Smokey can the person be, if he makes a
          > story of Mongolian heritage, exhibiting a page from a worldwide-known
          > PERSIAN epic poem written by a Persian poet Firdousi? Phuh! Mongolian! Great German
          > drink champagne! Famous Swiss whisky! Arnold Schwarzenegger, a chinese ballet star!

          Alexey, it would be the mark of a poor scholar to jump to conclusions
          about a resource sight unseen. Just as there are Arabic minatures that
          tell us a good deal about the conquest of Hungary and of Hungarian
          culture around the time of Mohacs, illuminated pages can tell us more
          about the people who illuminated the pictures than about the original
          text, under some circumstances.

          The title of the exhibition is not 'Mongolian Heritage', Alexei.
          It's "The Legacy of Genghis Khan: Courtly Arts and Culture in Western
          Asia, 1256.1353"

          The theme of the exhibit, taken from the web page for the exhibit: "he
          landmark traveling exhibition "The Legacy of Genghis Khan: Courtly Arts
          and Culture in Western Asia, 1256.1353" explores the influence of China's
          Yuan dynasty, founded by Kublai Khan (a grandson of Genghis Khan), on the
          art and culture of Iran's Ilkhanid dynasty, founded by Hülegü (another of
          his grandsons). On view are some 200 works from museums and collections
          worldwide, including rare textiles, ceramics, jewelry and metalwork, works
          in stone and wood, and outstanding examples of the art of the book. "

          The pages are from a particular manuscript dating from the Mongol :
          [Quoting from the exhibtion]:" Pages from the Great Mongol Shahnama
          (Book of Kings). Iran (probably Tabriz), 1330s
          Ink, colors, and gold on paper"

          The people who put together this exhibit say:
          " Of particular note are two royal Ilkhanid manuscripts.the Jamic
          al-tavarikh (the first-ever "History of the World," two volumes of which
          have survived) and the Great Mongol Shahnama (Book of Kings). The choice
          of specific episodes of the Shahnama for illustration and the recasting of
          Iranian heroes in the guise and costume of Mongol rulers indicate that
          these works served the political purpose of legitimizing the ruling elite.
          Large sections of both manuscripts are being reunited specifically for
          this exhibition."



          -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa jenne@...
          "American boys should not be seen dying on the nightly news. Wars should be
          over in three days or less, or before Congress invokes the War Powers
          Resolution. Victory must be assured in advance. And the American public
          must be all for it from the outset." -- Evan Thomas
        • Alexey Kiyaikin
          Greetings Jadwiga! Friday, May 02, 2003, 5:22:55 PM, you wrote: jfn The pages are from a particular manuscript dating from the Mongol : jfn [Quoting from the
          Message 4 of 5 , May 5, 2003
            Greetings Jadwiga!

            Friday, May 02, 2003, 5:22:55 PM, you wrote:


            jfn> The pages are from a particular manuscript dating from the Mongol :
            jfn> [Quoting from the exhibtion]:"   Pages from the Great Mongol Shahnama
            jfn> (Book of Kings). Iran (probably Tabriz), 1330s
            jfn> Ink, colors, and gold on paper"
            I'd just recall the sheer fact that as in Khalifate times Persians &
            the Tajick bore 99% work of science & culture, and the greatest
            majority of scholars (and poets as well) were called Arabic but were
            Tajick or Persian by birth & language. Thus, isn't it a too bold
            statement that Persia simply devoured the invaders rather than was
            influenced by them? Persia had too strong cultural links with China,
            especially eastern (Western Turkestan/Sinjan), to explain all the
            changes by Mongolian influence. I'd say the musicians played the same
            tune despite all changes of the band-master.

            jfn> The people who put together this exhibit say:
            jfn> " Of particular note are two royal Ilkhanid manuscripts.the Jamic
            jfn> al-tavarikh (the first-ever "History of the World," two volumes of which
            jfn> have survived) and the Great Mongol Shahnama (Book of Kings). The choice
            jfn> of specific episodes of the Shahnama for illustration and the recasting of
            jfn> Iranian heroes in the guise and costume of Mongol rulers indicate that
            jfn> these works served the political purpose of legitimizing the ruling elite.
            jfn> Large sections of both manuscripts are being reunited specifically for
            jfn> this exhibition."
            And isn't it saying by itself that not "Secret story of the Mongols"
            was illuminated, but the extremely native "Shakh-Nameh"? The artists
            even by the choice of their art theme told the invaders for another
            time that it was them who had to change, absorbing ages of highest
            culture. AFAIR Timurid empire was the first to drop the Mongol dynasty
            and to start the dynasty of their own.



            --
            Bye,
            Alex mailto:Posadnik@...
          • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
            ... Certainly the artifacts I saw in the exhibit were Mongol influenced, whether or not the Mongol influence lasted I do not know, not being an art historian.
            Message 5 of 5 , May 6, 2003
              > I'd just recall the sheer fact that as in Khalifate times Persians &
              > the Tajick bore 99% work of science & culture, and the greatest
              > majority of scholars (and poets as well) were called Arabic but were
              > Tajick or Persian by birth & language. Thus, isn't it a too bold
              > statement that Persia simply devoured the invaders rather than was
              > influenced by them? Persia had too strong cultural links with China,
              > especially eastern (Western Turkestan/Sinjan), to explain all the
              > changes by Mongolian influence. I'd say the musicians played the same
              > tune despite all changes of the band-master.

              Certainly the artifacts I saw in the exhibit were Mongol influenced,
              whether or not the Mongol influence lasted I do not know, not being an art
              historian.

              I would agree that it would be incorrect to say that Persia simply
              devoured the invaders and was NOT influenced by them at all.

              > jfn> The people who put together this exhibit say:
              > jfn> " Of particular note are two royal Ilkhanid manuscripts.the Jamic
              > jfn> al-tavarikh (the first-ever "History of the World," two volumes of which
              > jfn> have survived) and the Great Mongol Shahnama (Book of Kings). The choice
              > jfn> of specific episodes of the Shahnama for illustration and the recasting of
              > jfn> Iranian heroes in the guise and costume of Mongol rulers indicate that
              > jfn> these works served the political purpose of legitimizing the ruling elite.
              > jfn> Large sections of both manuscripts are being reunited specifically for
              > jfn> this exhibition."
              > And isn't it saying by itself that not "Secret story of the Mongols"
              > was illuminated, but the extremely native "Shakh-Nameh"?

              No, especially when you consider, for instance, the matierals that were
              illuminated by Christians that they recieved from the Arabs.

              > The artists
              > even by the choice of their art theme told the invaders for another
              > time that it was them who had to change, absorbing ages of highest
              > culture.

              I don't read minds, let alone possess a time machine, nor am I an expert
              on the history of Arabic culture or on art history, so I am not qualified
              to speak on the subject of what the artists intended.

              >AFAIR Timurid empire was the first to drop the Mongol dynasty
              > and to start the dynasty of their own.

              Many changes in Arabic dynasties took place during the medieval period,
              that I know from reading Atlas of Medieval Europe.

              -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa jenne@...
              "I'm tired. I'm tired of feeling rejected by the American people. I'm
              tired of waking up in the middle of the night worrying about the war."
              -- L.B. Johnson
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