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Re[2]: [sig] Re: early medieval Russian Embroidery! Please help!!

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  • Alexey Kiyaikin
    Greetings all! ... Though, there s plenty of early postperiod evidence - architecture (lots of house
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 7, 2003
      <Below message lightly edited by Yana, group moderator>



      Greetings all!
      > Probably nice, but not period. In spite of what is being said, Russian
      > folklore anything is as remote from our period as the 19th century.


      Though, there's plenty of early postperiod evidence - architecture
      (lots of house carvings on izbas built in 1700s-1800s), folk songs,
      chronicles, etc. Though, embroidery is not. It suffered a lot from silver
      traders. There's plenty of evidence that in mid-1800s silver traders
      simply bought embroidered robes in villages and burned them in dozens,
      casting out silver and gold from the embroidery. Though, if we have some pieces of
      1600s & 1700s and can never tell them from those of 1800s - is it a piece
      of evidence that the change was really humble?

      Yes, there's a problem with archaeology. Novgorod ceased being a rich
      city by 1500s, and its role ceased too. Kiev was so dug here and
      there, that an archaeologist can find pieces from 1600s UNDER
      something from 1200s. But there must also be a brain in the skull.
      Lots of Kievan frescos were copied and photoed, lots of miniatures
      are still available.

      Also, there's plenty of pieces that were PROVED to be not Russian, but
      Persian, German, etc. Does that demand that they be not period only
      because of that? Does that make them less popular because of that?

      > I have found lots of sources describing what was used for embroidery,
      > but am desperately looking for patterns to use as inspiration. I
      > wanted a theme of horses, or other domestic hooved animals like goats
      > or the like. I really want to know how stylized the animals are in
      > Russian embroidery, and were there amalgamations (chimeras) of
      > animals used at all (ie, half horse, half fish, etc.)? If not this
      > theme, then I was thinking of a theme based on the water creatures
      > (russlika I think?), the women who drowned passing travellers. Or
      > other Russian fairy tales, like baba yaga.

      Anne, goats & fish were not the issue as I can see across the pics
      from the Museum of the Folk Art in Moscow. Usually, a bull, an
      elk\moose, a cock, a falcon maybe (something with a hooked beacon), a
      human being, that's almost all. Also a two-headed horse or , what is
      more likely, a ship. But all that belongs to later times than period.
      More likely is that some embroidery patterns correspond with house
      outer carvings (nalichniki, etc), they have sometimes 90% common. I've
      been in my home town recently and saw a typical embroidery pattern as a
      carved decoration on a fence in a street of wooden houses built in
      late 1800s-early 1900s. That leads to photos of old houses that can be
      obtainable somewhere, e.g., in booklets. Try to find some stuff from
      the former USSR, with photos of old Simbirsk (Lenin's birthplace) or
      Moscow. They used to publish some. There was a magazine with the title
      "Sovetski Soyuz" (USSR), issued for foreigners. That may be helpful.
      And embroidery was too often re-borrowed from each other by Persians,
      Turks, Russians, Germans, Italians, etc. Looking through the Italian
      art album I found a reproduction of "crucification" of 13** (alas, I
      forgot to copy the date and the artist's name), Christ was painted
      wearing a typical medieval tunic with embroidery. There were some
      familiar motifs in that. Not to say about silver embroidery of the
      kaftans on the 15-16-century miniatures to poems like Shakh Name or
      like. Sometimes the images\patterns are also recognizable.

      bye,
      Alex
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