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Introducing myself and re bohemian womens names

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  • Annah Almaziful <annah_almaziful@yahoo.c
    Hello hello, First time posting here... :) I too have been bitten by the bohemia bug and thought i d join in on the SIG since you all seem to be generally
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 8, 2002
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      Hello hello,

      First time posting here... :) I too have been bitten by the bohemia
      bug and thought i'd join in on the SIG since you all seem to be
      generally interested in the same stuff I am (and my family is pretty
      sick of hearing me babble about what I am learning heeheehee).
      ANYWAYS...

      I'm working on an SCA persona - mid-late 14th Century Bohemian, to be
      exact. And I'm searching for a name, among other things (like lamps
      and dishes and manners etc--- mmmmm forest glass...)

      I have found a source for names but I don't know if it is accurate or
      acceptable for SCA *or* historical purposes. Maybe someone here is
      more knowledgable than I on this... It's a noble family genealogical
      web site that lists not only names and dates (of birth, marriage and
      death) but in many cases place of birth/death/marriage. It lists more
      than simply the inheriting son (what a relief), especially listing
      girlchildren and second and third wives as well. Since i have this
      weird personality quirk in which i deeply enjoy reading other
      people's family charts (i know i know i'm odd), I've been rather lost
      in pouring over these lists of marriages, daughters and sons; now it
      dawns on me... how accurate IS this?

      This website lists as its sources other nobility/personal genealogy
      websites, and in tracing their sources (ahhh the tangled web!) it
      appears they are depending on some "who's who" books and some books
      with german titles. Clearly my search is hampered by my inability to
      read czech, german, or latin. (suuuure, I COULD have gone for an
      easier English persona... but nooooo I wanted a "challenge"...*sigh*)

      I'm going to ask our herald about this site and its acceptability for
      name registering... but I thought I'd ask you all first just in case
      (plus I needed an excuse to break the lurk barrier).

      Alrighty...here is the link to the bohemia rulers section. Click on
      the little red dot by the fellows' names to get to the family tree
      part of the website. http://genealogy.euweb.cz/pan/bohemia.html

      The index http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html has a decent search
      engine too... hrmmmmm... legit or fantasy? anyone have any idea?

      BTW if anyone is interested most of the 14th century women appear to
      have been named: Margaret/Margarete, Elisabeth, Anna, Katharina, and
      Agnes (I assume they would have been called by Czech equivalents) no
      surprise there I suppose.

      If this site turns out to have been a waste of bandwidth... well...
      any print documents (in english or pictographs!) that achieve the
      same thing?

      Thanks so much!

      I may post another long-winded letter rather soon regarding some
      queries about medieval czech naming practises... once I have
      exhausted my web browsing brain.

      Cheers,

      Annah, who researches online while her 1 year old reads books.
    • Patricia Hefner
      This site is interesting, but I wish they d listed some sources. I m no expert on Czech rulers or aristocratic families. I m told that family names didn t come
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 9, 2002
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        This site is interesting, but I wish they'd listed some sources. I'm no expert on Czech rulers or aristocratic families. I'm told that family names didn't come in in Bohemia until around 1400. I have the Czech Knowledge page that's part of the Slavic Knowledge project at

        http://scholar76.tripod.com/czech/

        I have more sites on Czech and Slovak castles, the Hussite Wars, and a few other things than I do names. :-) Maybe that explains why I'm still using the French name I got registered by the COA ten years ago. :-)

        Isabelle de Foix
        Hello hello,

        First time posting here... :) I too have been bitten by the bohemia
        bug and thought i'd join in on the SIG since you all seem to be
        generally interested in the same stuff I am (and my family is pretty
        sick of hearing me babble about what I am learning heeheehee).
        ANYWAYS...

        I'm working on an SCA persona - mid-late 14th Century Bohemian, to be
        exact. And I'm searching for a name, among other things (like lamps
        and dishes and manners etc--- mmmmm forest glass...)

        I have found a source for names but I don't know if it is accurate or
        acceptable for SCA *or* historical purposes. Maybe someone here is
        more knowledgable than I on this... It's a noble family genealogical
        web site that lists not only names and dates (of birth, marriage and
        death) but in many cases place of birth/death/marriage. It lists more
        than simply the inheriting son (what a relief), especially listing
        girlchildren and second and third wives as well. Since i have this
        weird personality quirk in which i deeply enjoy reading other
        people's family charts (i know i know i'm odd), I've been rather lost
        in pouring over these lists of marriages, daughters and sons; now it
        dawns on me... how accurate IS this?

        This website lists as its sources other nobility/personal genealogy
        websites, and in tracing their sources (ahhh the tangled web!) it
        appears they are depending on some "who's who" books and some books
        with german titles. Clearly my search is hampered by my inability to
        read czech, german, or latin. (suuuure, I COULD have gone for an
        easier English persona... but nooooo I wanted a "challenge"...*sigh*)

        I'm going to ask our herald about this site and its acceptability for
        name registering... but I thought I'd ask you all first just in case
        (plus I needed an excuse to break the lurk barrier).

        Alrighty...here is the link to the bohemia rulers section. Click on
        the little red dot by the fellows' names to get to the family tree
        part of the website. http://genealogy.euweb.cz/pan/bohemia.html

        The index http://genealogy.euweb.cz/index.html has a decent search
        engine too... hrmmmmm... legit or fantasy? anyone have any idea?

        BTW if anyone is interested most of the 14th century women appear to
        have been named: Margaret/Margarete, Elisabeth, Anna, Katharina, and
        Agnes (I assume they would have been called by Czech equivalents) no
        surprise there I suppose.

        If this site turns out to have been a waste of bandwidth... well...
        any print documents (in english or pictographs!) that achieve the
        same thing?

        Thanks so much!

        I may post another long-winded letter rather soon regarding some
        queries about medieval czech naming practises... once I have
        exhausted my web browsing brain.

        Cheers,

        Annah, who researches online while her 1 year old reads books.








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      • Alastair Millar
        Annah writes... ... Welcome! :-) There are indeed some people interested in Bohemia (as well as Moravia and Slovakia) on the list, so hopefully you ll find
        Message 3 of 3 , Dec 10, 2002
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          Annah writes...

          >First time posting here...
          Welcome! :-)

          There are indeed some people interested in Bohemia (as well as Moravia and
          Slovakia) on the list, so hopefully you'll find answers to some questions
          here as well as like-minded people to explore new things with! The Czech
          Knowledge Pages < http://scholar76.tripod.com/czech/ > are definitely the
          place to start, as these have (or have links to) a very wide range of
          useful info., and the material is all quite recent.

          With regard to names...

          Royal genealogies are usually fairly accurate, but there's always the
          danger for women's names that the name is actually a foreign one! (In fact,
          this came up recently here on the list, with the Bohemian Doubrava,
          daughter of Boleslav I 'the Cruel', married off to Poland... where no-one
          has yet found any other evidence for that name's use in period)

          The first page of the genealogy you gave <
          http://genealogy.euweb.cz/pan/bohemia.html > (the "King List", if you
          will), seems pretty accurate, albeit that since it's in ASCII you're not
          getting all the hooks and accents that make Czech such fun... It *does*,
          however, seem to use the accepted Czech names.

          The detailed genealogies, by contrast, are a total disaster area in terms
          of being useful for names (although the accompanying historical information
          seems accurate at first glance). Taking "The Premyslids" as an example, we
          have a unique transliteration system used for some names (e.g. "Borzivoj"),
          while others are Anglicized ("Judith"), some are pseudo-Westernised
          ("Spitignev"), others are left in Czech (Vaclav, Konrad) and the
          occasional German name is thrown in to boot ("Ulrich")!!. I really REALLY
          wouldn't want to rely on this as a source for names - it's just too
          pick-and-mix and has no internal consistency. Oh and incidentally it uses
          the German system of titles too, which is controversial to say the least...
          ;-)

          If there are specific individuals whose names you'd like to check (no pun
          intended!), please let me know and I'll try looking them up in my own
          library to find the accepted Czech forms. For what it's worth I am in the
          process of putting together a list of documented Czech names (male and
          female) from some of the sources that I have - but it may be quite some
          time before this is ready (not least because I'll be away from Dec. 19th to
          Jan. 5th.). In the meantime, feel free (of course!) to throw any questions
          about naming practices or anything else onto the list - there are people
          here with all kinds of interests!

          All the best

          Alastair

          ---------------------------
          Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons) - alastair@...
          Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
          P.O.Box 11, CZ 413 01 Roudnice, Czech Republic
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