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coronation garb

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  • Patricia Hefner
    OK, I have to make another coronation outfit. The last one I made isn t looking so spiff these days. Egads, that sarafan is sloppy! I screwed up on some of the
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 9, 1999
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      OK, I have to make another coronation outfit. The last one I made isn't
      looking so spiff these days. Egads, that sarafan is sloppy! I screwed up on
      some of the measurements.....those things are hard to make with complete
      symmetry. That was my experience, anyway, making my first one. Maybe that's
      what I get for making an A-dress rather than a coat, but it was for summer.
      So will the new outfit. I might be better off making a very nice navershnik,
      which I think is easier to make. Ideas, ideas.....it's hard to choose with
      so many options!! :-) I love the Romanian costumes but I can't figure out
      how to cut the vest to save my life.

      Dekuji!
      Isabelle

      patricia.hefner@...
    • Eagle Claw
      ... Isabelle, As a proponent of the navershnik, I say Naverschnik, yes! I think they can be so much more interesting than sarafans. There s a lot of
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 11, 1999
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        >
        >OK, I have to make another coronation outfit. I might be better off making
        >a very nice navershnik,
        >which I think is easier to make. Ideas, ideas.....it's hard to choose with
        >so many options!! Dekuji!
        >Isabelle


        Isabelle,
        As a proponent of the navershnik, I say "Naverschnik, yes!" I think they
        can be so much more interesting than sarafans. There's a lot of
        ornamentation options that work with the naverschnik that don't with the
        sarafan. And they are incredibly simple to sew. Do you use gussets? Or
        the Turkish affectation of "flat-top" gores? I think the gores are easier.

        -Vasilla

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        Vasilla Anastasiia Krasnaia
        Barony of Mag Mor

        "I don't believe in just ordering people to do things.
        You have to sort of grab an oar and row with them."
        -Harold Geneen
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      • Chris and Trish Makowski
        ... From: Eagle Claw To: sig@onelist.com Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 12:16 Subject: Re: [sig] coronation garb ...
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 13, 1999
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          -----Original Message-----
          From: Eagle Claw <badhare@...>
          To: sig@onelist.com <sig@onelist.com>
          Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 12:16
          Subject: Re: [sig] coronation garb



          >Isabelle,
          >As a proponent of the navershnik, I say "Naverschnik, yes!" I think they
          >can be so much more interesting than sarafans. There's a lot of
          >ornamentation options that work with the naverschnik that don't with the
          >sarafan. And they are incredibly simple to sew. Do you use gussets? Or
          >the Turkish affectation of "flat-top" gores? I think the gores are easier.
          >
          >-Vasilla


          Ok, which one is the Naverschnik? My costuming packet has been borrowed by
          someone getting ready for a Russian festival (grin). Is that the long dress
          that goes over a sarafin?

          Anya
        • Patricia Hefner
          ... easier. ... by ... dress ... To tell the truth, I don t know that much about navershniks. I do know that they are about knee-length and have elbow-length
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 13, 1999
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            >
            > >Isabelle,
            > >As a proponent of the navershnik, I say "Naverschnik, yes!" I think they
            > >can be so much more interesting than sarafans. There's a lot of
            > >ornamentation options that work with the naverschnik that don't with the
            > >sarafan. And they are incredibly simple to sew. Do you use gussets? Or
            > >the Turkish affectation of "flat-top" gores? I think the gores are
            easier.
            > >
            > >-Vasilla
            >
            >
            > Ok, which one is the Naverschnik? My costuming packet has been borrowed
            by
            > someone getting ready for a Russian festival (grin). Is that the long
            dress
            > that goes over a sarafin?
            >
            > Anya
            >
            To tell the truth, I don't know that much about navershniks. I do know that
            they are about knee-length and have elbow-length sleeves and are worn as an
            over dress. I obviously don't know if I prefer gussets or gores. Gores
            *sound* easier. I don't know what kind of ornamentation to use. Can I use
            pearls? Gold and silver beads? The only embroidery stitch I know is a sloppy
            backstitch. I'm afraid I'm an embroidery klutz!! :-) On the other hand, I do
            reasonably good beadwork--not great-- so that's why I'm asking about beads.
            But this does it, it's a navershnik for Spring Coronation. Oh, yes, what
            about the fabric? It's going to be April in Meridies, and the weather will
            be getting pretty darn warm. I'm going to want to wear it at events over the
            summer, and the heat gets absolutely horrendous. Can I use a silk or silk
            substitute? I don't dare use velveteen or velvet!! :-)

            Dekuji!

            Isabelle

            patricia.hefner@...
          • Eagle Claw
            Anya, For a Kievan, the naverschnik is the shorter, t-tunic type dress that goes over the rubaka. Usually it s the festival or dress up bit of garb and is
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 14, 1999
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              Anya,
              For a Kievan, the naverschnik is the shorter, t-tunic type dress that goes
              over the rubaka. Usually it's the festival or "dress up" bit of garb and is
              usually very ornate in it's decoration. It has wide sleeves that end at the
              elbow or just below. It's about knee or mid-calf length. At least this is
              what I've come to understand for a naverschnik. Now, Moscovites may
              possibly have another configuration! ;-)

              -Vasilla


              >
              >Ok, which one is the Naverschnik? My costuming packet has been borrowed by
              >someone getting ready for a Russian festival (grin). Is that the long dress
              >that goes over a sarafin?
              >
              >Anya
            • Patricia Hefner
              ... is ... the ... is ... What do you use to decorate the navershnik? Can I use pearls? Other kinds of beads? I m a little deficient in the embroidery
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 14, 1999
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                > Anya,
                > For a Kievan, the naverschnik is the shorter, t-tunic type dress that goes
                > over the rubaka. Usually it's the festival or "dress up" bit of garb and
                is
                > usually very ornate in it's decoration. It has wide sleeves that end at
                the
                > elbow or just below. It's about knee or mid-calf length. At least this
                is
                > what I've come to understand for a naverschnik. Now, Moscovites may
                > possibly have another configuration! ;-)
                >
                > -Vasilla
                >
                >
                What do you use to decorate the navershnik? Can I use pearls? Other kinds of
                beads? I'm a little deficient in the embroidery department. I just might
                have to use more trim.

                Dekuji!
                Isabelle


                patricia.hefner@...
              • Eagle Claw
                Isabelle, Normally I use a combination of things when designing the ornamentation of a naverschnik (most of mine are works in progress!). I use applique,
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 14, 1999
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                  Isabelle,
                  Normally I use a combination of things when designing the ornamentation of a
                  naverschnik (most of mine are works in progress!). I use applique, couched
                  cording, pearls, embroidery and/or fur. Just depends on the look you're
                  going for and what fabric you are using for the garment. I tend to
                  gravitate towards floral motifs. I don't have much info yet on what the
                  actual "period" decoration was or whether pearls are an appropriate material
                  for a 12th century Kievan to use, but I think you can make a pretty
                  convincing garment using them. As for other beads....why not? There was a
                  great deal of trade with other countries that made or traded beads so I
                  imagine that a Russian resident would use them as a little something special
                  to add to the decoration of their garments. Check into bead making in
                  Byzantium and the other countries that traded heavily with Russia during
                  your time period.

                  -Vasilla

                  >What do you use to decorate the navershnik? Can I use pearls? Other kinds
                  >of
                  >beads?

                  >Isabelle
                • Patricia Hefner
                  OK, now about fabric. I m from Meridies, so we have pretty warm weather. The Coronation will take place in April, when it can be quite warm during the day but
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 14, 1999
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                    OK, now about fabric. I'm from Meridies, so we have pretty warm weather.
                    The Coronation will take place in April, when it can be quite warm during
                    the day but often quite chilly at night, at least by our standards!! :-)
                    Plus, I'll want to keep wearing the outfit during the summer, and the heat
                    around here in the summer is horrific. Sometimes the heat index is as high
                    as 120 degrees! Ouch!Obviously I can't use anything like velvet! I'm going
                    to try to find something that looks like silk without the price tag!! :-)
                    The other day, for the first time, I heard someone talking about a fabric
                    that's a mixture of silk and cotton. If I can get my hands on some of this
                    it'll be perfect. I'd never heard of this fabric. I think it's made in
                    India. Whatever I end up using, I'm planning for it to be red.

                    Dekuji!
                    Isabelle

                    patricia.hefner@...
                  • vespirus@xxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xxxx
                    ... I feel utterly and completely lost by all this discussion of Russian garb. Could someone please, please, PLEASE put together a very simple illustrated
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 14, 1999
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                      On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Chris and Trish Makowski wrote:

                      > Ok, which one is the Naverschnik? My costuming packet has been borrowed by
                      > someone getting ready for a Russian festival (grin). Is that the long dress
                      > that goes over a sarafin?

                      I feel utterly and completely lost by all this discussion of Russian garb.
                      Could someone please, please, PLEASE put together a very simple
                      illustrated webpage on this subject, illustration what these various
                      garments and head-things are?

                      --Walraven
                    • jdmiller2@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx
                      As soon as Mordak gets me the newest edition of his packet, that s what I m going to do. Patience, dear. :) --Yana
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 15, 1999
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                        As soon as Mordak gets me the newest edition of his packet, that's what
                        I'm going to do.

                        Patience, dear. :)

                        --Yana


                        At 09:42 PM 10/14/99 -0700, you wrote:
                        >From: <vespirus@...>
                        >
                        >
                        >On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Chris and Trish Makowski wrote:
                        >
                        >> Ok, which one is the Naverschnik? My costuming packet has been borrowed by
                        >> someone getting ready for a Russian festival (grin). Is that the long dress
                        >> that goes over a sarafin?
                        >
                        >I feel utterly and completely lost by all this discussion of Russian garb.
                        >Could someone please, please, PLEASE put together a very simple
                        >illustrated webpage on this subject, illustration what these various
                        >garments and head-things are?
                        >
                        >--Walraven
                      • Jonathon Barton
                        ... Hear, Hear! That is the one thing that our group of Russian-Personae have had almost *no* success with - finding good sources of Russian garb from various
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 15, 1999
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                          > > Ok, which one is the Naverschnik? My costuming packet has been borrowed by
                          > > someone getting ready for a Russian festival (grin). Is that the long dress
                          > > that goes over a sarafin?
                          >
                          > I feel utterly and completely lost by all this discussion of Russian garb.
                          > Could someone please, please, PLEASE put together a very simple
                          > illustrated webpage on this subject, illustration what these various
                          > garments and head-things are?

                          Hear, Hear!

                          That is the one thing that our group of Russian-Personae have had almost *no*
                          success with - finding good sources of Russian garb from various places on the
                          net...

                          If I could get all the miscellaneous bits of electronica that people have laying
                          around shipped to me, I could do the website pretty quickly (I'm a web developer
                          for USA.NET by trade), but the information is the hard part... *grin*

                          Jonathon Barton

                          Rytsar Aleksii Ivanov Filosofovich



                          >
                          > --Walraven
                          >
                          > > Slavic Interest Group homepage:
                          > http://www.uwplatt.edu/~goldschp/slavic.html
                        • Eagle Claw
                          ... ... Okay, here s my take on the Naverschnik (please feel free to through in your commentary as you see fit.) ;) I think it would be
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 1, 1999
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                            <SNIP>
                            >To tell the truth, I don't know that much about navershniks. I do know that
                            >they are about knee-length and have elbow-length sleeves and are worn as an
                            >over dress. I obviously don't know if I prefer gussets or gores. Gores
                            >*sound* easier.
                            <SNIP>
                            >Isabelle

                            Okay, here's my take on the Naverschnik (please feel free to through in your
                            commentary as you see fit.) ;)
                            I think it would be appropriate to use a silk fabric for the Naverschnik,
                            Isabelle, if you are dealing with the temperatures of Meridies. Normally
                            heavy brocades, wools, linens, etc. were used; but I think you could be
                            convincing with a silk.

                            As for the ornamentation, you could easily incorporate beading, pearling,
                            couching of silver/gold thread and applique. If you choose a fabric with a
                            design in it, you could highlight the design elements with the
                            beading/pearling and/or couching. If it is a plain fabric, then you could
                            create a design using these elements and applique as well. The use of
                            semi-precious stones is not unheard of either. Also, for Kievan times,
                            buttons of bone or antler are appropriate too.

                            The naverschnik was the garment worn during times of celebration and special
                            occasions. This is the "show off" piece. Be elaborate with it. Besides
                            your headdress, this will show the Worlde your station and degree of wealth.

                            -Vasilla (who received 208 messages since Friday afternoon!)

                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            Vasilla Anastasiia Krasnaia
                            Barony of Mag Mor

                            "I don't believe in just ordering people to do things.
                            You have to sort of grab an oar and row with them."
                            -Harold Geneen
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          • Butler309@xxx.xxx
                            In a message dated 10/14/99 10:11:20 PM Central Standard Time, ... Hook up with Lady Jylaen from Thorngil. What she doesn t know about fabric is unknowable
                            Message 13 of 13 , Nov 11, 1999
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                              In a message dated 10/14/99 10:11:20 PM Central Standard Time,
                              patricia.hefner@... writes:

                              > Obviously I can't use anything like velvet! I'm going
                              > to try to find something that looks like silk without the price tag!! :-)
                              > The other day, for the first time, I heard someone talking about a fabric
                              > that's a mixture of silk and cotton. If I can get my hands on some of this
                              > it'll be perfect. I'd never heard of this fabric. I think it's made in
                              > India. Whatever I end up using, I'm planning for it to be red.
                              >

                              Hook up with Lady Jylaen from Thorngil. What she doesn't know about fabric
                              is unknowable (MS in textile science).

                              - Leszek
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