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RE: [sig] Some stuff recently found

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  • Anne Ferlat
    Dear Alexey where is the information on the site (I read Russian but I did not find it) ? Thank you. Anne
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 5, 2002
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      Dear Alexey

      where is the information on the site (I read Russian but I did not find it)
      ?
      Thank you.


      Anne
    • kataryna_dragonweaver
      Thanks. -Kataryna
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 5, 2002
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        Thanks.
        -Kataryna
      • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
        Greetings Kseniia! ... Kirsha Danilov s songs , first edited in late 1700s, collected by order of famous factory owner Demidov, from of the Demidov clan that
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 5, 2002
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          Greetings Kseniia!

          >Who put together the collection?
          "Kirsha Danilov's songs", first edited in late 1700s, collected by order of
          famous factory owner Demidov, from of the Demidov clan that owned about half
          factories in the Urals in the 18th century. The collection was put together by
          some Kirsha (Cyrill) Danilov, who was traced in the factory documents and some
          notes by Demidov. According to the notes, the songs were written down in 1740s,
          and decades before they were performed by Kirsha, who learned them from his
          father, a descendant of a Skomorokh dynasty (the word Skomorokh wasn't
          mentioned in the documents, but there were no other minstrels with dynasties in
          Russia). The author (performer) lived in the Urals, where he (and his father?)
          was taken from the North of Russia, to work at a factory during the reign of
          Peter I. Mine is the first full edition of the book, so the editor can also be
          named the one who put the collection together. The tunes are (for the first
          time since first edition) were a joint work of Kirsha and somebody who knew how
          to write the tunes down, and done as tunes for the violin.

          >What kinds of songs are there?

          Different ones. There are some Bylinas, we have already had some quarrel about
          it at the Kaganate. The Bylinas are Kiev- and Novgorod-bound, that proves once
          again that Kirsha first lived in Arkhangelsk region. There are some historic
          songs (of later time), about Ivan IV's reign time and later, they are
          Moscovia-bound and some are about the conquest of the Urals in 1500-1700s.
          There are some "everyday" songs, and some songs that were traditionally
          censored in earlier editions, as they are, ergm, ecstatic. It is a common
          mistake, made by first scholars of folk lore (digging not in village
          storytellers but books like Afanasiv), that "chastity is characteristic of the
          Russian fairy tale", though even Afanasiev worked with dozens of texts that
          belonged to traditional themes (like Baba Yaga) and could by no means be
          offered to children. The same with the songs, as the wedding ceremony was too
          closely connected with the cult of fertility and thus "censored" repertoir was
          in use. There are at least two such songs in the book, and they indeed carry
          the carnival-like spirit that reminds well of, say, Bocaccio or Chaucer.

          >I'd love to see these! I've got a scanner - any chance I could get >you to
          mail me some photocopies, and I could scan them in and post >them to the web
          page?

          Well, thanks really. But, you see, I live not in Moscow, Idaho, but in Moscow,
          Russia, and posting of 200-300 pages photocopied is about same trouble as
          sending 20-30 megabytes via email (it's easy to copy a document but costs a
          little fortune/lots to copy a book, also some trouble with posting something
          big to the US). The thing is that the "original" editor used by you English
          native speakers, does not have Russian fonts and can't understand Russian
          electronic text, so I can't send the lyrics in .txt format already. The part of
          the song that really needs .jpg format, is 10-20 square inches of the song
          tunes per song.

          >I could also do transliterations/translations. (Well, you could >probably do
          them better, but I was trying to save you some time!)

          Thanks a lot. We could do the work as joint effort, BTW

          bye,
          Alex

          P.S. And, BTW, why not have a downloadable source of Russian fonts, etc at SIG
          homepage? Russian is too easy to read (I won't say anything about Grammar, but
          we don't need it in songs). Paul, if you are reading this - what'd you say?
        • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
          Greetings Kataryna! Yes, I m a Yahoo member, that is a way, yes. About the minstrels, some info not period at all. In 1970s (80s???) about the nicest piece of
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 5, 2002
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            Greetings Kataryna!

            Yes, I'm a Yahoo member, that is a way, yes. About the minstrels, some info not
            period at all. In 1970s (80s???) about the nicest piece of poetry concerning
            Ukrainian minstrels was written by Vitaly Korotich (more known as chief editor
            of Ogonyok democratic magazine during Perestroyka). It was translated into
            Russian by a brilliant Russian poet Yunna Moritz, and became a song with music
            by Sergey Nikitin. Sometimes it was performed in Ukrainian, which was equally
            touching. So, if you need to see how the Ukrainians could feel their minstrels'
            way, try to find it as a poem or a song - "Poslednaya Pros'ba Starogo Lirnika"
            (Last Wish of an Old Lyre Player), or "Maidan" ("market square"). It portrays
            the thing, though not documentally but psychologically.

            bye,
            Alex.
          • yanajenn
            ... etc at SIG ... Grammar, but ... you say? T%his is actually in the works for the Russian Knowledge Page, although I am a bit behind in updating and
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 6, 2002
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              --- "Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik" <Posadnik@m...> wrote:

              > P.S. And, BTW, why not have a downloadable source of Russian fonts,
              etc at SIG
              > homepage? Russian is too easy to read (I won't say anything about
              Grammar, but
              > we don't need it in songs). Paul, if you are reading this - what'd
              you say?

              T%his is actually in the works for the Russian Knowledge Page,
              although I am a bit behind in updating and maintaining it, as many are
              aware (more on that in the next message).

              If you can send me the music info in a Russian font, I can transfer it
              into readable text for a web browser. The RKP would be a good place
              to have some music info.

              --Yana
            • Kseniia Smol'nyanina
              Hi again, Alex - Shoot, I completely forgot that you re in Moscow! *grumble* In that case I understand the issue with photocopies, etc. (I ve done research
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 6, 2002
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                Hi again, Alex -

                Shoot, I completely forgot that you're in Moscow! *grumble* In that case I understand the issue with photocopies, etc. (I've done research over there myself.)

                I'd love to somehow work with you on this project, if we can figure out how to do it. This is exactly the kind of resource I've always wanted to find! I know quite a few of the folk songs collected in this century by Dmitri Pokrovski, but I would love to find some that are arguably more period, not to mention songs for solo voice (it's hard to find people who sing in the Russian folk style over here!).

                Let's talk off the list and see if there is some way we can do this together. I speak Russian, so that's a help, I think. Could you send me the bibliographical info on the book? Maybe there's a tiny possibility that I can find a copy in the US and get my hands on it through interlibrary loan.

                -- Kseniia, wishing she was back in Moscow
              • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
                Greetings Kseniia! Here s the bibliographical info of the book. Drevniye Rossiiskiye Stikhotvoreniya sobraniye Kirsheiu Danilovym under editorship of
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 9, 2002
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                  Greetings Kseniia!

                  Here's the bibliographical info of the book.

                  "Drevniye Rossiiskiye Stikhotvoreniya sobraniye Kirsheiu Danilovym"
                  under editorship of A.A.Gorelov, S.Petersburg, "Tropa Troyanova" 2000 ("Polnoye
                  Sobraniye Russkikh Bylin" series). The edition isn't academic, but they comment
                  extentively on all the points that disagree with some editions (instead of
                  giving ALL the variants), and put letters in italics in places where modern
                  rules of spelling disagree with the original variant of 18 century.

                  bye,
                  Alex.
                • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
                  Greetings Yana! ... Sorry, I can t understand the idea. I can t send the music in Russian font, as it s a kind of picture. There s a great lot of lyrics for
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 9, 2002
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                    Greetings Yana!


                    >If you can send me the music info in a Russian font, I can transfer >it
                    >into readable text for a web browser. The RKP would be a good place
                    >to have some music info.



                    Sorry, I can't understand the idea. I can't send the music in Russian font, as
                    it's a kind of picture. There's a great lot of lyrics for every tune (3 pages
                    each song at average). Do you mean this?

                    bye,
                    Alex.
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