RE: [sig] Some stuff recently found
- Quoting Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik <Posadnik@...>:
>I understand - I have a scanner and still have no time to scan stuff.
> Greetings Kataryna!
> > I'd try to learn how to read Russian for that - is it possible to you to
> > send scans via email or something? - not sure enough about webpages to
> > give you an answer to your question.
> No problem with that except time (I have no scanner of my own, so I have to
> somebody to scan something for me and then carry it on 3'' dickettes to
> that takes days sometimes).
I'm sure that for reading russian all I'd have to do is download the windows
Russian language stuff - to write it I'd need the font, and to get used to the
I'm no computer expert either, but I'm willing to try and see if something
you send works on my computer. Why don't you try uploading a sample text
(actually try sending a russian word document) to the files at the SIG site
You have to register as a yahoo member if you haven't. (Sorry for the step by
step - I'm used to discussing this with people who've never used the site
attached to the mailing lists).
BTW is there anyone else on SIG that is interested in Slavic music. I'd like
to research it more but have other project to be done first. If someone has a
class handout they can share that contains a good overview, I'd love to see it.
... one of these days (when my other projects are closer to finished) I'll
write the little bits I've found out about the Ukrainian minstrels.
From "Ukrainian Minstrels: And the Blind Shall Sing"by Natalie Kononenko.
It isn't specifically about period but it's the only english language book I
could find easily about Ukrainian minstrels.
>BTW is there anyone else on SIG that is interested in Slavic music.Ask, and ye shall receive!
>If someone has a class handout they can share that contains a good
>overview, I'd love to see it.
- Whoops, sorry - I've just appended the bilio to the file, and included
it below as well.
There's another link to the handout:
Bakst, James A History of Russian-Soviet Music. Dodd, Mead & Co, New
York 1966: pp 3-16
Leonard, Richard Anthony A History of Russian Music. The MacMillan
Co, New York 1957: pp 11-25
Lvov, Nikolai and Ivan Prach A Collection of Russian Folk Songs UMI
Reasearch press, Ann Arbor, MI 1987
Mizynec, Victor Folk Instruments of Ukraine. Bayda Books, Doncaster,
Reeder, Roberta, trans and ed Russian Folk Lyrics. Indiana University
Press, Bloomington, IN 1993
Riha, Thomas, ed Readings in Russian Civilization, Volume 1: Russia
Before Peter the Great, 900-1700. University of Chicago Press,
Chicago, IL 1964.
Seaman, Gerald R. History of Russian Music, Volume 1: From Its Origins
to Dargomyzhsky. Frederick A. Praeger, New York 1967: pp 1-54
Swan, Alfred J. Russian Music and Its Sources in Chant and Folk-Song.
WW Norton & Co, New York 1973: pp10-47
Tcherepnin, Alexander Anthology of Russian Music. M.P. Belaieff, Bonn
- Greetings Kseniia!
>Who put together the collection?"Kirsha Danilov's songs", first edited in late 1700s, collected by order of
famous factory owner Demidov, from of the Demidov clan that owned about half
factories in the Urals in the 18th century. The collection was put together by
some Kirsha (Cyrill) Danilov, who was traced in the factory documents and some
notes by Demidov. According to the notes, the songs were written down in 1740s,
and decades before they were performed by Kirsha, who learned them from his
father, a descendant of a Skomorokh dynasty (the word Skomorokh wasn't
mentioned in the documents, but there were no other minstrels with dynasties in
Russia). The author (performer) lived in the Urals, where he (and his father?)
was taken from the North of Russia, to work at a factory during the reign of
Peter I. Mine is the first full edition of the book, so the editor can also be
named the one who put the collection together. The tunes are (for the first
time since first edition) were a joint work of Kirsha and somebody who knew how
to write the tunes down, and done as tunes for the violin.
>What kinds of songs are there?Different ones. There are some Bylinas, we have already had some quarrel about
it at the Kaganate. The Bylinas are Kiev- and Novgorod-bound, that proves once
again that Kirsha first lived in Arkhangelsk region. There are some historic
songs (of later time), about Ivan IV's reign time and later, they are
Moscovia-bound and some are about the conquest of the Urals in 1500-1700s.
There are some "everyday" songs, and some songs that were traditionally
censored in earlier editions, as they are, ergm, ecstatic. It is a common
mistake, made by first scholars of folk lore (digging not in village
storytellers but books like Afanasiv), that "chastity is characteristic of the
Russian fairy tale", though even Afanasiev worked with dozens of texts that
belonged to traditional themes (like Baba Yaga) and could by no means be
offered to children. The same with the songs, as the wedding ceremony was too
closely connected with the cult of fertility and thus "censored" repertoir was
in use. There are at least two such songs in the book, and they indeed carry
the carnival-like spirit that reminds well of, say, Bocaccio or Chaucer.
>I'd love to see these! I've got a scanner - any chance I could get >you tomail me some photocopies, and I could scan them in and post >them to the web
Well, thanks really. But, you see, I live not in Moscow, Idaho, but in Moscow,
Russia, and posting of 200-300 pages photocopied is about same trouble as
sending 20-30 megabytes via email (it's easy to copy a document but costs a
little fortune/lots to copy a book, also some trouble with posting something
big to the US). The thing is that the "original" editor used by you English
native speakers, does not have Russian fonts and can't understand Russian
electronic text, so I can't send the lyrics in .txt format already. The part of
the song that really needs .jpg format, is 10-20 square inches of the song
tunes per song.
>I could also do transliterations/translations. (Well, you could >probably dothem better, but I was trying to save you some time!)
Thanks a lot. We could do the work as joint effort, BTW
P.S. And, BTW, why not have a downloadable source of Russian fonts, etc at SIG
homepage? Russian is too easy to read (I won't say anything about Grammar, but
we don't need it in songs). Paul, if you are reading this - what'd you say?
- Greetings Kataryna!
Yes, I'm a Yahoo member, that is a way, yes. About the minstrels, some info not
period at all. In 1970s (80s???) about the nicest piece of poetry concerning
Ukrainian minstrels was written by Vitaly Korotich (more known as chief editor
of Ogonyok democratic magazine during Perestroyka). It was translated into
Russian by a brilliant Russian poet Yunna Moritz, and became a song with music
by Sergey Nikitin. Sometimes it was performed in Ukrainian, which was equally
touching. So, if you need to see how the Ukrainians could feel their minstrels'
way, try to find it as a poem or a song - "Poslednaya Pros'ba Starogo Lirnika"
(Last Wish of an Old Lyre Player), or "Maidan" ("market square"). It portrays
the thing, though not documentally but psychologically.
- --- "Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik" <Posadnik@m...> wrote:
> P.S. And, BTW, why not have a downloadable source of Russian fonts,etc at SIG
> homepage? Russian is too easy to read (I won't say anything aboutGrammar, but
> we don't need it in songs). Paul, if you are reading this - what'dyou say?
T%his is actually in the works for the Russian Knowledge Page,
although I am a bit behind in updating and maintaining it, as many are
aware (more on that in the next message).
If you can send me the music info in a Russian font, I can transfer it
into readable text for a web browser. The RKP would be a good place
to have some music info.
- Hi again, Alex -
Shoot, I completely forgot that you're in Moscow! *grumble* In that case I understand the issue with photocopies, etc. (I've done research over there myself.)
I'd love to somehow work with you on this project, if we can figure out how to do it. This is exactly the kind of resource I've always wanted to find! I know quite a few of the folk songs collected in this century by Dmitri Pokrovski, but I would love to find some that are arguably more period, not to mention songs for solo voice (it's hard to find people who sing in the Russian folk style over here!).
Let's talk off the list and see if there is some way we can do this together. I speak Russian, so that's a help, I think. Could you send me the bibliographical info on the book? Maybe there's a tiny possibility that I can find a copy in the US and get my hands on it through interlibrary loan.
-- Kseniia, wishing she was back in Moscow
- Greetings Kseniia!
Here's the bibliographical info of the book.
"Drevniye Rossiiskiye Stikhotvoreniya sobraniye Kirsheiu Danilovym"
under editorship of A.A.Gorelov, S.Petersburg, "Tropa Troyanova" 2000 ("Polnoye
Sobraniye Russkikh Bylin" series). The edition isn't academic, but they comment
extentively on all the points that disagree with some editions (instead of
giving ALL the variants), and put letters in italics in places where modern
rules of spelling disagree with the original variant of 18 century.
- Greetings Yana!
>If you can send me the music info in a Russian font, I can transfer >itSorry, I can't understand the idea. I can't send the music in Russian font, as
>into readable text for a web browser. The RKP would be a good place
>to have some music info.
it's a kind of picture. There's a great lot of lyrics for every tune (3 pages
each song at average). Do you mean this?