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Re: [sig] Ukrainian Ladies Photos

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  • Deborah Gratton
    Thank you. ...
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 3, 2002
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      Thank you.


      > Well, it is highly unlikely that you will find any photos from the 1540's
      > <smile>, but there are a few photos from the 1903 Winter Ball that are
      > supposedly of Ukrainian dress. The URL is
      > http://www.costumes.org/pages/1903ball.htm
      <snip>
      > --Yana
    • Alexey Kiyaikin
      Greetings! The Ghost saw & heard everything... :-) Please, bear in mind that, if I am not mistaken, you mean the Royal Ball in Petersburg (I visited the
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 4, 2002
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        Greetings!

        "The Ghost saw & heard everything..." :-)


        Please, bear in mind that, if I am not mistaken, you mean the Royal
        Ball in Petersburg (I visited the site not so much ago, but can't
        check it, my inet card is close to exhausting), which was set as an
        "Old Russian-style". If yes, it is no evidence of nothing. It belongs
        to the time felt as an archaeologist's nughtmare. At the time they
        substituted historic knowledge with artistic imagination. It worked
        only because the artists involved were among the best in Russia and
        sometimes even world - Vasnetsov, Repin, Vroubel, etc. The British faced a like with those
        Pre-Raffaelites, the attitude is the same. So, mainly it's a fantasy
        based on MUCH evidence of folk culture of the 1800s - and ALMOST NO
        knowledge what was really beyond 1400s. My favourite piece of
        nightmare is Vasnetsov's "Boi Slavian So Skifami" (A Battle between
        Slavs & Scythians). Even geniuses may be mistaken sometimes.

        So, if that was what I meant - don't believe it more than your
        neighbor who saw something alike on TV yesterday. If not - sorry.

        bye,
        Alex.
      • Jenn/Yana
        Yes, you are right about the (Winter Ball costumes) lack of historical historical accuracy. We ve discussed that subject at length here on the List (how it is
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 4, 2002
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          Yes, you are right about the (Winter Ball costumes) lack of historical
          historical accuracy. We've discussed that subject at length here on the
          List (how it is based on the 18th and 19th centuries' idea of what the
          clothing would have looked like). However, it is an easy way to get
          _inspiration_ for making late SCA-period clothing, especially in the
          absence of much primary source information.

          --Yana

          >Please, bear in mind that, if I am not mistaken, you mean the Royal
          >Ball in Petersburg (I visited the site not so much ago, but can't
          >check it, my inet card is close to exhausting), which was set as an
          >"Old Russian-style". If yes, it is no evidence of nothing. It belongs
          >to the time felt as an archaeologist's nughtmare. At the time they
          >substituted historic knowledge with artistic imagination.
        • Alexey Kiyaikin
          Greetings Yana! ... Why not try historic films or (better) tales shot in Russia in mid XX century. The facr is though they are only 50 years older, they
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 5, 2002
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            Greetings Yana!

            > Yes, you are right about the (Winter Ball costumes) lack of historical
            > historical accuracy.  We've discussed that subject at length here on the
            > List (how it is based on the 18th and 19th centuries' idea of what the
            > clothing would have looked like).  However, it is an easy way to get
            > _inspiration_ for making late SCA-period clothing, especially in the
            > absence of much primary source information.

            Why not try historic films or (better) tales shot in Russia in mid XX
            century. The facr is though they are only 50 years older, they already
            have the reference material from the State Historic Museum (which has
            a more than grand collection of folk dress & dress studies. Also,
            there remained the never-broken tradition of country life, that the
            directors & artists still saw. The tradition was heavily injured by
            Khrushchev's headless orders in 1960s, so later films are of less
            interest. I advise to look for the classical screen version of Gogol's
            "Night before Christmas", I do believe they issued it on video in the
            US, as the whole collection of Alexander Rou's cinema tales (one of
            them (Ilya Muromets) was discussed in the Florilegium's Uncatalogued, and I have brief
            evidence of reactions to other films. The Ukrainian Costume, of
            course, wasn't changed in the last 6 centuries as much, as Russian
            one, so the "cinema cut" will be more precise. Though, if we need info
            from no earlier than 1400s, Rou's films will do. I do not advise to
            take "Alexander Nevsky", as it was intended to be a propaganda more
            than a work of art (remember, in was shot during the war), and the
            historic truth sometimes fell victim to the need to unite the nation.

            bye,
            Alex.
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