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Re: [sig] Ukrainian Ladies Photos

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  • Jenn/Yana
    Well, it is highly unlikely that you will find any photos from the 1540 s , but there are a few photos from the 1903 Winter Ball that are supposedly of
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 2, 2002
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      Well, it is highly unlikely that you will find any photos from the 1540's
      <smile>, but there are a few photos from the 1903 Winter Ball that are
      supposedly of Ukrainian dress. The URL is
      http://www.costumes.org/pages/1903ball.htm

      Plate 11 is a portrait of a woman in "Malorussian" (more correctly known as
      Ukrainian) dress (the caption says "Princess Yelena Konstantinova Kotchebue
      as the wife of a Malorussian Polish Gentleman"). Note the criss-cross
      fastening (or decoration) across the bodice, and the tapered waist. I
      always think of this style when I think of late SCA-period Ukrainian
      dress, mostly because of the book by Yuri Tkach, "History of Ukrainian
      Costume" (Melbourne: Bayda Books, 1986). The late-period dresses in the
      book look very similar to the Winter Ball photo.

      I thought there was another photo, but I must be thinking of another source.

      Also check out the SIG clothing bibliography for more sources
      <http://slavic.freeservers.com/biblio/costumes.html>

      --Yana
    • Deborah Gratton
      Thank you. ...
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 3, 2002
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        Thank you.


        > Well, it is highly unlikely that you will find any photos from the 1540's
        > <smile>, but there are a few photos from the 1903 Winter Ball that are
        > supposedly of Ukrainian dress. The URL is
        > http://www.costumes.org/pages/1903ball.htm
        <snip>
        > --Yana
      • Alexey Kiyaikin
        Greetings! The Ghost saw & heard everything... :-) Please, bear in mind that, if I am not mistaken, you mean the Royal Ball in Petersburg (I visited the
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 4, 2002
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          Greetings!

          "The Ghost saw & heard everything..." :-)


          Please, bear in mind that, if I am not mistaken, you mean the Royal
          Ball in Petersburg (I visited the site not so much ago, but can't
          check it, my inet card is close to exhausting), which was set as an
          "Old Russian-style". If yes, it is no evidence of nothing. It belongs
          to the time felt as an archaeologist's nughtmare. At the time they
          substituted historic knowledge with artistic imagination. It worked
          only because the artists involved were among the best in Russia and
          sometimes even world - Vasnetsov, Repin, Vroubel, etc. The British faced a like with those
          Pre-Raffaelites, the attitude is the same. So, mainly it's a fantasy
          based on MUCH evidence of folk culture of the 1800s - and ALMOST NO
          knowledge what was really beyond 1400s. My favourite piece of
          nightmare is Vasnetsov's "Boi Slavian So Skifami" (A Battle between
          Slavs & Scythians). Even geniuses may be mistaken sometimes.

          So, if that was what I meant - don't believe it more than your
          neighbor who saw something alike on TV yesterday. If not - sorry.

          bye,
          Alex.
        • Jenn/Yana
          Yes, you are right about the (Winter Ball costumes) lack of historical historical accuracy. We ve discussed that subject at length here on the List (how it is
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 4, 2002
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            Yes, you are right about the (Winter Ball costumes) lack of historical
            historical accuracy. We've discussed that subject at length here on the
            List (how it is based on the 18th and 19th centuries' idea of what the
            clothing would have looked like). However, it is an easy way to get
            _inspiration_ for making late SCA-period clothing, especially in the
            absence of much primary source information.

            --Yana

            >Please, bear in mind that, if I am not mistaken, you mean the Royal
            >Ball in Petersburg (I visited the site not so much ago, but can't
            >check it, my inet card is close to exhausting), which was set as an
            >"Old Russian-style". If yes, it is no evidence of nothing. It belongs
            >to the time felt as an archaeologist's nughtmare. At the time they
            >substituted historic knowledge with artistic imagination.
          • Alexey Kiyaikin
            Greetings Yana! ... Why not try historic films or (better) tales shot in Russia in mid XX century. The facr is though they are only 50 years older, they
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 5, 2002
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              Greetings Yana!

              > Yes, you are right about the (Winter Ball costumes) lack of historical
              > historical accuracy.  We've discussed that subject at length here on the
              > List (how it is based on the 18th and 19th centuries' idea of what the
              > clothing would have looked like).  However, it is an easy way to get
              > _inspiration_ for making late SCA-period clothing, especially in the
              > absence of much primary source information.

              Why not try historic films or (better) tales shot in Russia in mid XX
              century. The facr is though they are only 50 years older, they already
              have the reference material from the State Historic Museum (which has
              a more than grand collection of folk dress & dress studies. Also,
              there remained the never-broken tradition of country life, that the
              directors & artists still saw. The tradition was heavily injured by
              Khrushchev's headless orders in 1960s, so later films are of less
              interest. I advise to look for the classical screen version of Gogol's
              "Night before Christmas", I do believe they issued it on video in the
              US, as the whole collection of Alexander Rou's cinema tales (one of
              them (Ilya Muromets) was discussed in the Florilegium's Uncatalogued, and I have brief
              evidence of reactions to other films. The Ukrainian Costume, of
              course, wasn't changed in the last 6 centuries as much, as Russian
              one, so the "cinema cut" will be more precise. Though, if we need info
              from no earlier than 1400s, Rou's films will do. I do not advise to
              take "Alexander Nevsky", as it was intended to be a propaganda more
              than a work of art (remember, in was shot during the war), and the
              historic truth sometimes fell victim to the need to unite the nation.

              bye,
              Alex.
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