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Ukrainian Ladies Photos

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  • lorelei_wraith
    I am searching for photos of ladies dresses from approx. 1540s. I just can t seem to find any photos from that time period. I find Tudor pictures that I like
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 1, 2002
      I am searching for photos of ladies dresses from approx. 1540s. I
      just can't seem to find any photos from that time period. I find
      Tudor pictures that I like so that is the reason for that time
      period. My lord is early 1600s but I am not crazy about the English
      ladies dresses and I am not sure what the Ukrainian ladies wore.
      Can anyone help me?

      Tat'anna
    • Jenn/Yana
      Well, it is highly unlikely that you will find any photos from the 1540 s , but there are a few photos from the 1903 Winter Ball that are supposedly of
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 2, 2002
        Well, it is highly unlikely that you will find any photos from the 1540's
        <smile>, but there are a few photos from the 1903 Winter Ball that are
        supposedly of Ukrainian dress. The URL is
        http://www.costumes.org/pages/1903ball.htm

        Plate 11 is a portrait of a woman in "Malorussian" (more correctly known as
        Ukrainian) dress (the caption says "Princess Yelena Konstantinova Kotchebue
        as the wife of a Malorussian Polish Gentleman"). Note the criss-cross
        fastening (or decoration) across the bodice, and the tapered waist. I
        always think of this style when I think of late SCA-period Ukrainian
        dress, mostly because of the book by Yuri Tkach, "History of Ukrainian
        Costume" (Melbourne: Bayda Books, 1986). The late-period dresses in the
        book look very similar to the Winter Ball photo.

        I thought there was another photo, but I must be thinking of another source.

        Also check out the SIG clothing bibliography for more sources
        <http://slavic.freeservers.com/biblio/costumes.html>

        --Yana
      • Deborah Gratton
        Thank you. ...
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 3, 2002
          Thank you.


          > Well, it is highly unlikely that you will find any photos from the 1540's
          > <smile>, but there are a few photos from the 1903 Winter Ball that are
          > supposedly of Ukrainian dress. The URL is
          > http://www.costumes.org/pages/1903ball.htm
          <snip>
          > --Yana
        • Alexey Kiyaikin
          Greetings! The Ghost saw & heard everything... :-) Please, bear in mind that, if I am not mistaken, you mean the Royal Ball in Petersburg (I visited the
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 4, 2002
            Greetings!

            "The Ghost saw & heard everything..." :-)


            Please, bear in mind that, if I am not mistaken, you mean the Royal
            Ball in Petersburg (I visited the site not so much ago, but can't
            check it, my inet card is close to exhausting), which was set as an
            "Old Russian-style". If yes, it is no evidence of nothing. It belongs
            to the time felt as an archaeologist's nughtmare. At the time they
            substituted historic knowledge with artistic imagination. It worked
            only because the artists involved were among the best in Russia and
            sometimes even world - Vasnetsov, Repin, Vroubel, etc. The British faced a like with those
            Pre-Raffaelites, the attitude is the same. So, mainly it's a fantasy
            based on MUCH evidence of folk culture of the 1800s - and ALMOST NO
            knowledge what was really beyond 1400s. My favourite piece of
            nightmare is Vasnetsov's "Boi Slavian So Skifami" (A Battle between
            Slavs & Scythians). Even geniuses may be mistaken sometimes.

            So, if that was what I meant - don't believe it more than your
            neighbor who saw something alike on TV yesterday. If not - sorry.

            bye,
            Alex.
          • Jenn/Yana
            Yes, you are right about the (Winter Ball costumes) lack of historical historical accuracy. We ve discussed that subject at length here on the List (how it is
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 4, 2002
              Yes, you are right about the (Winter Ball costumes) lack of historical
              historical accuracy. We've discussed that subject at length here on the
              List (how it is based on the 18th and 19th centuries' idea of what the
              clothing would have looked like). However, it is an easy way to get
              _inspiration_ for making late SCA-period clothing, especially in the
              absence of much primary source information.

              --Yana

              >Please, bear in mind that, if I am not mistaken, you mean the Royal
              >Ball in Petersburg (I visited the site not so much ago, but can't
              >check it, my inet card is close to exhausting), which was set as an
              >"Old Russian-style". If yes, it is no evidence of nothing. It belongs
              >to the time felt as an archaeologist's nughtmare. At the time they
              >substituted historic knowledge with artistic imagination.
            • Alexey Kiyaikin
              Greetings Yana! ... Why not try historic films or (better) tales shot in Russia in mid XX century. The facr is though they are only 50 years older, they
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 5, 2002
                Greetings Yana!

                > Yes, you are right about the (Winter Ball costumes) lack of historical
                > historical accuracy.  We've discussed that subject at length here on the
                > List (how it is based on the 18th and 19th centuries' idea of what the
                > clothing would have looked like).  However, it is an easy way to get
                > _inspiration_ for making late SCA-period clothing, especially in the
                > absence of much primary source information.

                Why not try historic films or (better) tales shot in Russia in mid XX
                century. The facr is though they are only 50 years older, they already
                have the reference material from the State Historic Museum (which has
                a more than grand collection of folk dress & dress studies. Also,
                there remained the never-broken tradition of country life, that the
                directors & artists still saw. The tradition was heavily injured by
                Khrushchev's headless orders in 1960s, so later films are of less
                interest. I advise to look for the classical screen version of Gogol's
                "Night before Christmas", I do believe they issued it on video in the
                US, as the whole collection of Alexander Rou's cinema tales (one of
                them (Ilya Muromets) was discussed in the Florilegium's Uncatalogued, and I have brief
                evidence of reactions to other films. The Ukrainian Costume, of
                course, wasn't changed in the last 6 centuries as much, as Russian
                one, so the "cinema cut" will be more precise. Though, if we need info
                from no earlier than 1400s, Rou's films will do. I do not advise to
                take "Alexander Nevsky", as it was intended to be a propaganda more
                than a work of art (remember, in was shot during the war), and the
                historic truth sometimes fell victim to the need to unite the nation.

                bye,
                Alex.
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