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Ovens

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  • Alastair Millar
    ... No! No! mercy! arrrrrghhhhh! *ahem* Sorry, I really have overdosed on these... Actually, what I ve been looking at are maybe-8/9th-century-ish huts from a
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 9, 2002
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      >Ovens? Ovens? Anything on ovens I'd really be interested in.
      No! No! mercy! arrrrrghhhhh!
      *ahem*
      Sorry, I really have overdosed on these... Actually, what I've been looking
      at are maybe-8/9th-century-ish huts from a large site just north of
      Prague - I'm translating the 150-page English "summary" for a site report
      due to be published as a monograph next year. Basically, the phenomenon of
      a stone oven with 'firebox' beneath in Slavic period huts is known from
      Bohemia to the Ukraine in "Prague-type culture" contexts. If you or anyone
      else is keen, I can grit my teeth and post a summary of the key points
      here...

      >from Smith and Christian's _Bread and Salt_ that the tiled
      >Russian Stove is mostly postperiod

      Ah, now tiled stoves are a different story altogether in Bohemia, and there
      is an *extensive* literature on the subject, esp. as regards stove tiles
      and their iconography - almost all in Czech, though, I'm afraid. Certainly
      not post-period however - they start appearing in about the 14/15th
      century.

      I recently translated something on a site in Most (house no. 226), which
      includes this reference:

      ""Finds from plot no.226 complemented those from the house itself by a
      further 1426 stove tile fragments, and 8 tiles preserved either whole (2
      cases) or capable of being completely restored (6 cases). These confirmed
      the dating of the start of stove heating in this house to the beginning of
      the 15th century. Two assemblages of stove tile fragments (288 and 829
      pieces) were recovered from plot no.224, where the introduction of stove
      heating is dated to the second half of the 15th century.""

      Cheers

      Alastair

      ---------------------------
      Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons)
      Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
      e-mail: alastair@..., http://www.skriptorium.cz
      P.O.Box 685, CZ 111 21 Prague 1, Czech Republic
    • MHoll@aol.com
      In a message dated 2/9/2002 3:16:02 AM Central Standard Time, alastair@iol.cz ... But not in Russia. Predslava. [Non-text portions of this message have been
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 9, 2002
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        In a message dated 2/9/2002 3:16:02 AM Central Standard Time, alastair@...
        writes:


        > Certainly not post-period however - they start appearing in about the
        > 14/15th
        > century.

        But not in Russia.

        Predslava.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jenne Heise
        ... Well, that helps a bit. We know of tiled stoves in Bohemia. What about beehive ovens in Russia? Were they period? Yearning to find out more facts, --
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 10, 2002
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          > > Certainly not post-period however - they start appearing in about the
          > > 14/15th
          > > century.
          > But not in Russia.

          Well, that helps a bit. We know of tiled stoves in Bohemia. What about
          beehive ovens in Russia? Were they period?

          Yearning to find out more facts,
          -- Jadwiga

          --
          Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
          disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
          "If I dialed the wrong number, why did you answer the phone?" -- Thurber
        • Jenne Heise
          ... I would be very interested. I m not in any hurry, though! ... [Reference omitted] Ooh ooh ooh! COOL! Do we have an idea of how these stoves were configured
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 10, 2002
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            > No! No! mercy! arrrrrghhhhh!
            > *ahem*
            > Sorry, I really have overdosed on these... Actually, what I've been looking
            > at are maybe-8/9th-century-ish huts from a large site just north of
            > Prague - I'm translating the 150-page English "summary" for a site report
            > due to be published as a monograph next year. Basically, the phenomenon of
            > a stone oven with 'firebox' beneath in Slavic period huts is known from
            > Bohemia to the Ukraine in "Prague-type culture" contexts. If you or anyone
            > else is keen, I can grit my teeth and post a summary of the key points
            > here...

            I would be very interested. I'm not in any hurry, though!

            > Ah, now tiled stoves are a different story altogether in Bohemia, and there
            > is an *extensive* literature on the subject, esp. as regards stove tiles
            > and their iconography - almost all in Czech, though, I'm afraid. Certainly
            > not post-period however - they start appearing in about the 14/15th
            > century.
            > I recently translated something on a site in Most (house no. 226), which
            > includes this reference:

            [Reference omitted] Ooh ooh ooh! COOL! Do we have an idea of how these
            stoves were configured and used? The German and Dutch examples I've seen
            were heating devices and don't seem to have been used for cooking. Any
            indication whether these were used for cooking? (From the stuff in
            Material Culture in Prague book, I know that location in the house doesn't
            always give any useful information about whether cooking was done there!)

            -----------
            Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
            disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
            "If I dialed the wrong number, why did you answer the phone?" -- Thurber
          • MHoll@aol.com
            In a message dated 2/10/2002 12:26:28 PM Central Standard Time, ... Yes, absolutely. I don t have the book at hand anymore, but I do remember that _indoor_
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 10, 2002
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              In a message dated 2/10/2002 12:26:28 PM Central Standard Time,
              jenne@... writes:


              > What about
              > beehive ovens in Russia? Were they period?

              Yes, absolutely. I don't have the book at hand anymore, but I do remember
              that _indoor_ beehive ovens were used in Novgorod for most, if not all, our
              period. Only particularly grand houses displayed the large masonry ovens in
              late period (I'm afraid to say for sure -- XIV - XV or XVI cent. But not
              tiled.

              The beehive ovens were built on a platform, usually in one corner of one of
              the big rooms. Hard to tell if they were only on the first floor, or if there
              was some kind of oven on the upper floors.

              Early (9th-10th cent, IIRC) there were similar beehive ovens *outdoors* in a
              small enclosure, probably for baking bread in the summer. I don't remember
              any notices of outdoor ovens in later centuries.

              Most of this info is from excavations in Novgorod.

              Predslava.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Alastair Millar
              Jadwiga - OK, if you can wait a couple of days I ll see what I can for summarizing the very early stuff... Meantime, the stoves referred to are stoves in the
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 11, 2002
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                Jadwiga -
                OK, if you can wait a couple of days I'll see what I can for summarizing
                the very early stuff...

                Meantime, the stoves referred to are stoves in the sense of heating
                appliances, rather than stoves in the sense of cooking ranges - so yes,
                close to the Dutch type. Many chateaux here still retain late period
                examples (17th-18th centuries) with glazed tiles: I'll see if I can dig out
                some pictures sometime.

                Cheers!

                Alastair

                ---------------------------
                Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons)
                Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
                e-mail: alastair@..., http://www.skriptorium.cz
                P.O.Box 685, CZ 111 21 Prague 1, Czech Republic
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