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  • posadnik1
    Excuse me, ladies & gentlemen, I m a freshman here so I don t know all the habits & ways. I ve come Florilegium, then SCA and finally was advised to contact
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 6, 2002
      Excuse me, ladies & gentlemen, I'm a freshman here so I don't know
      all the habits & ways. I've come Florilegium, then SCA and finally
      was advised to contact SIG. Being a native speaker I can be of some
      help for those who took Russia, sometimes - Bulgaria & nomadic
      nations of Middle Asia. Being a phililogist (by education)& a member
      of several living history clubs, I could help you with your period
      Russian. Being NOT able to join SCA (as the nearest kingdom lies too
      far from Moscow) activities, I chose to do something at least by
      mail. So here I am.
    • Sorcha
      Hello, Good to hear from you! I have chosen to re-create a Khazar persona. Do you have any good information about customs, traditions, storys, clothing
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 6, 2002
        Hello,
        Good to hear from you! I have chosen to re-create a Khazar persona. Do you have any good information about customs, traditions, storys, clothing interesting personal things people of that time and place would have known?
        I have chosen a turkish name, based on the information that the khazars were a turkic people, and so far all the costuming I've done has been extrapolation from Magyar, later Turkish, some Ukraine and Byzantine clothing. Any information you might have would be very interesting to me.
        Thank you
        Gulenay Khazari ( AnTir)
        MKA: Barbara MacLachlan ( USA)

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: posadnik1
        To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 1:18 AM
        Subject: [sig] Maybe someone needs help...?


        Excuse me, ladies & gentlemen, I'm a freshman here so I don't know
        all the habits & ways. I've come Florilegium, then SCA and finally
        was advised to contact SIG. Being a native speaker I can be of some
        help for those who took Russia, sometimes - Bulgaria & nomadic
        nations of Middle Asia. Being a phililogist (by education)& a member
        of several living history clubs, I could help you with your period
        Russian. Being NOT able to join SCA (as the nearest kingdom lies too
        far from Moscow) activities, I chose to do something at least by
        mail. So here I am.


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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jeff Smith
        ... Being NOT able to join SCA (as the nearest kingdom lies too far from Moscow) activities, I chose to do something at least by mail. So here I
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 6, 2002
          --- posadnik1 <Posadnik@...> wrote:

          Being NOT able to join SCA (as the nearest kingdom
          lies too <BR>
          far from Moscow) activities, I chose to do something
          at least by <BR>
          mail. So here I am.  <BR>

          Great to have you on the list (esp. with the language
          skills and location).

          As one of the Drachenwalders on the list, I must point
          out that Moscow is within our borders, we have
          participants (unfortunately no email contact with
          them) in Novgorod. That said, I'm sure you are aware
          that the nearest SCA branches are Helsinki and Berlin,
          neither of which is easily accessible. We're working
          on one in Talinin (hmmm, I've got to check on that,
          they should be incipient by now).

          If I can help you get in contact with Drachenwald
          more, please let me know.

          Barcsi Janos
          Chatelain of Drachenwald

          =====
          JEFFREY C. SMITH
          Heidelberg, Germany

          "There goes one more thing that I said I would never do" -Kelly Bundy

          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
          http://greetings.yahoo.com
        • dvryaboy
          Privet! Well, the best thing you could possibly do for me is go to the Kremlin armoury (oruzheynaya palata) and take pictures of armour.. :). I was too young
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 6, 2002
            Privet!
            Well, the best thing you could possibly do for me is go to the
            Kremlin armoury (oruzheynaya palata) and take pictures of armour.. :).
            I was too young and stupid to pay much attention when I was still
            living in Moscow.
            I would also gladly participate in book trades, esp. if you can find
            Kirpichnikov's Drevnerusskoe Oruzhie or either volume of "Arheologiya
            SSSR: Drevnyaya Rus' ". My interests are 10th-13th cent. armour and
            nomadic cultures (pechenegs and polovtsy mostly).

            Which clubs are you in? Do you post on tgorod?

            Glad to see you on this list, and thanks for your most generous offer!

            -Dmitriy
            (SCA Dmitriy Shelomianin, Tozhe Gorod Glem)

            http://www.geocities.com/kaganate

            --- In sig@y..., "posadnik1" <Posadnik@m...> wrote:
            > Excuse me, ladies & gentlemen, I'm a freshman here so I don't know
            > all the habits & ways. I've come Florilegium, then SCA and finally
            > was advised to contact SIG. Being a native speaker I can be of some
            > help for those who took Russia, sometimes - Bulgaria & nomadic
            > nations of Middle Asia. Being a phililogist (by education)& a
            member
            > of several living history clubs, I could help you with your period
            > Russian. Being NOT able to join SCA (as the nearest kingdom lies
            too
            > far from Moscow) activities, I chose to do something at least by
            > mail. So here I am.
          • posadnik1
            ... armour.. :). ... No loss, actually. Most of the samples (the collection is much bigger than the exibited part) are just show-off ones. Moreover, they date
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 6, 2002
              --- In sig@y..., "dvryaboy" <dvryaboy@h...> wrote:

              > Well, the best thing you could possibly do for me is go to the
              > Kremlin armoury (oruzheynaya palata) and take pictures of
              armour.. :).
              > I was too young and stupid to pay much attention when I was still
              > living in Moscow.
              No loss, actually. Most of the samples (the collection is much bigger
              than the exibited part) are just show-off ones. Moreover, they date
              back no earlier than 15 cent, the whole body about late 15- early 16.
              A little bit better collection belongs to State History Museum, where
              Kirpichnikov headed the arms department (Gorelik, often cited by
              Osprey's Man-at-Arms, being one of his men). Oruzheynaya Palata,
              indeed, was too much a storehouse of presens from/to the Russian
              tsar...

              > I would also gladly participate in book trades, esp. if you can
              find
              > Kirpichnikov's Drevnerusskoe Oruzhie or either volume
              of "Arheologiya
              > SSSR: Drevnyaya Rus' ". My interests are 10th-13th cent. armour
              and
              > nomadic cultures (pechenegs and polovtsy mostly).
              Contact the magazine "Rodina". 103025 Moscow Novy Arbat street, 19
              phone 203 74 82. AFAIK they do shipping at least to Finland. It is
              the main popular magazine on national history. They welcome different
              views on national history, so there are lots of materials on nomadic
              history with good pics.
              BTW don't rely on Kirpichnikov too much. His re-creations of Russian
              armour are sometimes too speculative. If there is any sense, try
              cross-checking Alexander Kirpichnikov, Mikhail Gorelik & Dmitri
              Fyodorov, they are independent in their statements.
              >
              > Which clubs are you in? Do you post on tgorod?

              I belong in greater part to live RPG group of my own (teaching half
              contact swordplay along with other "period" martial arts), cross-
              membering some martial arts clubs of "Slaviano-Goritskaya Borba"
              system and a Paladin living history club. I read tgorod but not post
              anything there. BTW, a nice site is at moria.hut.ru, partly LRPG,
              partly living history.
            • MoxFool@aol.com
              Posadnik, welcome! Zygmunt zNadratowo MKA, In Soli Gloria, Tom Nadratowski Footballguys.com [Non-text portions of
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 7, 2002
                Posadnik, welcome!

                Zygmunt zNadratowo
                MKA,
                In Soli Gloria,
                Tom Nadratowski <A HREF="http://www.footballguys.com">Footballguys.com</A>


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Alexey Kiyaikin
                Greetings Sorcha! ... My compassion be guiding you!:-) There are two :-( most unknown & most remembered (by Russians) nations: the Khazars & the Pechenegs.
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 7, 2002
                  Greetings Sorcha!
                  > Good to hear from you! I have chosen to re-create a Khazar persona.
                  My compassion be guiding you!:-) There are two :-( most unknown &
                  most remembered (by Russians) nations:
                  the Khazars & the Pechenegs. Once choosing a Pecheneg character, I've
                  come across such a fact: they were so well extinguished by Yaroslav, that
                  no traces exist. Even in archaeology there is only ONE pot, and no
                  other artifacts once belonging to them. The same with the Khazars.
                  They are supposed to be Turkish, but no connection with modern Turkey
                  (their nation was formed too late). They were Judes by religion - but
                  only the aristocrats, and the military elite, al'arsii, were moslems.
                  Most information we know is taken from the Kagan's letter to European
                  kings, too much boastful, some arabian (actually, Persian or Tajik)
                  geography books & some chronicles of neighbouring states. They were
                  divided into Jewish or Moslem White Khazars, who married the most
                  beautiful girl-slaves & their children looked less & less Turkish, and
                  Black Khazars, who actually did all the work, they were mostly horse-
                  and sheep-shepherds, worshipping The High Sky - Khan Tengri, as their
                  relatives.
                  > Do you have
                  > any good information about customs, traditions, storys, clothing interesting
                  No notes on the customs were left, except some about the rule of
                  choosing the ruler. As Shad-Khazar was to be ever-lucky person, he
                  never died of age. When he started his reign, he was asked to take
                  some (metal? stone?) small cubes with one hand, one for each year of
                  reign. When the time was up, the Kagan was simply strangled and a new
                  one was chosen. He was never seen by the common people, it was
                  punished by death.
                  The only story by Khazars happened maybe in 9 century. A merchant had
                  a son and a stepson, who looked like twins. The son left the town,
                  and while he was away, their father died. After the return the son saw
                  that the stepson was pretending HE was the son by birth, and even took
                  his wife as his own, that she didn't notice the difference. When he
                  tried to put his brother to court, the latter cried at him that he was
                  a hypocrite, that he was trying to invent something to steal his
                  beloved father's heritage he had no right to own. So the
                  judge didn't know what to do. At last he ordered to dig into the
                  father's grave and bring him a bone. Then he ordered both brothers to
                  spill some blood on the bone. One drop just slided on the bone while
                  the other was absorbed. The judge stated, that even the father
                  absorbed his heir's blood and rejected the impostor's. So the
                  inventive stepson was executed.

                  Also there's a book with a title like "Khazarian Dictionary (I read it
                  in Russian long ago, but its author spoke English). Though everything
                  in that book was invented and nothing was really historical.

                  > personal things people of that time and place would have known?
                  > I have chosen a turkish name, based on the information that the khazars were a
                  > turkic people, and so far all the costuming I've done has been extrapolation from
                  > Magyar, later Turkish, some Ukraine and Byzantine clothing. Any information you
                  It's better to take Tajik or Uighur ones, as the Turks slowly moved
                  westwards from North China, making their history. For general
                  understanding of old Turkish notion, try reading Lev Gumilev. I've
                  seen something by him in English. Actually, the Khazars were keeping
                  guard in the pass between the Urals and the Caspian sea, and the only
                  two nations were strong enough to break through: the Maguar and the
                  Kangs, known better as the Pechenegs.

                  > might have would be very interesting to me.

                  Alexey aka Posadnik.
                • Alexey Kiyaikin
                  greetings Jeff! ... Oops! According to the SCA kingdoms map at sca.org (or was it the map of Drachenwald at your site?..), the eastern border is marked by the
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 7, 2002
                    greetings Jeff!

                    > As one of the Drachenwalders on the list, I must point
                    > out that Moscow is within our borders, we have
                    > participants (unfortunately no email contact with
                    Oops! According to the SCA kingdoms map at sca.org (or was it the map
                    of Drachenwald at your site?..), the eastern border is marked by the
                    Germany-Greece line, with no
                    Russian-bordering states (not to mention Russia itself) in
                    Drachenwald. :-(
                    > them) in Novgorod.  That said, I'm sure you are aware
                    > that the nearest SCA branches are Helsinki and Berlin,
                    Yes, I am.
                    > neither of which is easily accessible.  We're working
                    > on one in Talinin (hmmm, I've got to check on that,
                    > they should be incipient by now).
                    Alas, lots of trouble for a Russian to go to Baltia...

                    >
                    > If I can help you get in contact with Drachenwald
                    > more, please let me know.
                    > Barcsi Janos
                    > Chatelain of Drachenwald
                    >
                    That's great to meet the Chatelain from the very beginning, so
                    I think I'll try to get a
                    closer acquaintance. Thanks a lot.


                    Alex.
                  • Jenne Heise
                    ... I think that page may be out of date? -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@mail.browser.net disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 8, 2002
                      > Oops! According to the SCA kingdoms map at sca.org (or was it the map
                      > of Drachenwald at your site?..), the eastern border is marked by the
                      > Germany-Greece line, with no
                      > Russian-bordering states (not to mention Russia itself) in
                      > Drachenwald. :-(

                      I think that page may be out of date?

                      --
                      Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
                      disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
                      "If I dialed the wrong number, why did you answer the phone?" -- Thurber
                    • Sorcha
                      Thanks Alex, I appreciate both the time and the sympathy in your letter! Part of the fun for me is the challenge. I am apprenticed to a laurel here, so need to
                      Message 10 of 10 , Feb 8, 2002
                        Thanks Alex,
                        I appreciate both the time and the sympathy in your letter! Part of the fun for me is the challenge. I am apprenticed to a laurel here, so need to come up with good documentation for costuming choices. So far I have found an article on a boot. I'm fairly certain they wore more than that. I know I do.
                        Now at the end of you're note you say that they were responsible for guarding the passes between the Urals and the Caspian. That only 2 peoples, the Maguar and the Kang could break through. I thought that the magyar were a client group of tribes allied to the Khazar, and living to the north of them, between the main part of Kazaria and Kiev. Is Maguar a different people entirely?
                        I have read a bit about the battles back and forth over that area with the Arabs, and the Ogyuz turks. Koestler credits the Khazar for keeping the Arabs out of eastern europe.
                        I've also been trying to track down any information about the split that must have occurred when the Magyar went west over the Carpathians, taking 3 hordes of Khazar with them. I think that must have been one hell of a feud or ??????? happening to result in that dramatic a change.
                        For more reading you suggest Lev Gumilev, what was he writing about?
                        Again thanks for all your help! please feel free to contact me off list : sorcha@... (ok, thats the first SCA name I had)
                        Regards,
                        Gulenay
                        mka Barbara
                        PS, If you'd like to know more about the kingdom where I live you can click on: http://www.antir.sca.org/ . And for a picture of the King and Queen in the garb I made and my laurel embellished: http://www.antir.sca.org/WhosWho/ Their majestys have been good friends for a long time and I've been very busy making their new garb, and co-ordinating the other wonderful volunteer seamstress and embellishers. Next week is Estrella War, and the deadline I have given to most of the clothiers. The end of the tunnel approches!
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