Re:paintings as documentation
- Another thing to consider in interpreting paintings is that the "villain" is
often clothed in the garb of which ever country is the "enemy" at the time.
In some period diatribes about clothing there were often comments about the
bad current fashion of wearing "French" or "Foreign" clothing.
And then you must consider the country in which the painting was done, the
painter's residence and usual style, and whether it came from a studio where
the major painter did the "important things" like face and hands and the
lesser painters did the rest.
The painting was in Cracow but it was done by a German.....(I think). The
front man's garb is definitely German. The woman's lower sleeve looks like
part of a German sleeve. And what is that puffy thingy laying on the
ground behind her? There are period paintings that show a saint about to be
done in with pieces of clothing removed ..... to allow the headsman's axe a
better target, to show the wounds specific to the saint, etc.
Poland imported architects, painters and other artists from the 13-1400s on.
There was, especially, much traffic with Florence and other Italian city
states. There was German influence in clothing as well, and the humanist
movement which had centers in the Italian city states and in Germany, etc.
flourished in Poland.
You'd be safer if you could get two paintings from the period and the area
with some of the same details.
Just some thoughts....
> > The picture was painted 1521 in Cracow by VonKitzingen. The picture
> > title is the Martydom of St. Catherine of Alexandria. It is
> > in a Museum in Cracow.
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sig/files/Zanekta/
> > Does this look like something you could use to document potential
> > garb? Any comments on the dress or the picture?
> I could view it in both formats without problems.
> The men's clothing contained in this picture could be used as
> potential documentation, as I have seen pieces of men's garb very
> similar in a number of other portraits, paintings, and etchings;
> thus, it can be cross referenced.
> The garb on St Catherine I am not so sure of.... the sleeves seem
> odd... The bottom portion doesn't appear to be attached to the bodice
> in any manner so unless it is a vanbrace for archery of some such, I
> don't see the point of it. The pouf in the sleeve near the elbow
> hints of either smocking or a tie at this point to keep it such and I
> know of neither in this area on a dress or chemise in this time
> period. What little can be seen of the bodice (the shoulder piece)
> looks as if it could be right, if only it had a sleeve attached or
> tied to it in some manner. The open front of the dress is reminicent
> of Mary of Hapsburg's dress, as seen here
> The head piece looks correct for others that I have seen, with
> braiding and perhaps either a net or caul under the coronet.
> This is a different sort of dress for Catherine to be pictured
> wearing, as she is most often depicted in a sideless surcoat.
> Cynthia Virtue also has a wonderful paper on what consitutes a
> primary resource for documenting clothing
> http://www.virtue.to/articles/sources.html But it is also Kingdom
> dependant. In the Middle Kingdom, many judges prefer the 'rule of 3'
> for documentation... that is, they like to see three primary
> resources on any A&S entry in order to consider it documentably
> period.... Other kingdoms, I am sure, vary on this rule.
> Part of the problem is that it's a depiction of a Saint, and as such,
> is subject to many possible interpretations; as well as many possible
> correct and incorrect depections within it.
> Hope this is helpful.
> Cu Drag,