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Re: fabric predicament... long

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  • Linda Learn
    ... Is gold ... Ok.... you hit my favorite subject. Brocade is period.... depending on the design in the fabric. Modern roses are out . Balanced ogee
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 7 11:17 AM
      > From: Patricia Hefner <verte76@...>
      > Subject: fabric predicament
      >
      > I have three yards of an absolutely gorgeous gold
      > brocade-looking fabric. It's not very heavy.
      >clip<
      Is gold
      > fabric period
      >clip<
      > Isabelle de Foix
      > Shire Brantestone
      > Kingdom of Meridies

      Ok.... you hit my favorite subject.
      Brocade is period.... depending on the design in the fabric. Modern roses
      are "out". Balanced "ogee" (hourglass shapes fitted into each other) are
      good, but check on the design style/period of the pattern inside. Depending
      on the era.... and the country of origin... "vining" designs are good.
      "Pineapple, or pinecone, or pomegranate designs are good for 12-1400s,
      GENERALLY speaking. Stylized 5-petal "daisy" flowers are pretty much a
      standard as a fill-in design for several centuries in period...1200s on.
      Rampant, balanced and facing each other, lions, griffins, phoenix, etc are a
      find that will be coveted by everyone who knows anything about early period
      or Byzantine.
      Country makes a difference too. Italy did certain things that influenced
      Europe... and ended up all over the place. The Moorish designs were
      different, the Chinese designs were different. There were influences felt
      from these at different periods.... depending on who was conquering , or
      trading with, whom at the time.
      Some fabric (the "good" stuff) was worn for many decades, being willed from
      one person to another, or given as gifts, or 'made-over' for smaller bodies
      or smaller areas of clothing so to exclude the worn spots.
      Gold is good. In period there was 'golden-yellow dyed fiber', and 'woven
      with gold thread' and 'embroidered and/or couched gold thread on fabric'.
      This is very, VERY generalized. To really get an idea for the design on a
      piece of fabric you must pick up some textile patterns history books through
      interlibrary loan... or do a search on "used" books for the best price when
      stocking your library.
      Check out some of the pictures of the era, as well as some pictures of the
      mid to late 1800s, Queen Victoria's reign. I'd say, if it doesn't look
      "Victorian", then chances are you can use it.
      If you want some book titles that have period pictures of fabric designs let
      me know and I'll post them.

      Maria Pienkneplotno.... Polish fabric merchant..... Dragon's Magic
      Linda Learn ... Class Act Fabrics
    • Jenne Heise
      ... Question: why, specifically? Centifolia roses are period as roses; are they simply to hard a pattern to brocade? I guess if we have no period examples
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 7 1:24 PM
        > Brocade is period.... depending on the design in the fabric. Modern roses
        > are "out".

        Question: why, specifically? Centifolia roses are period as roses; are
        they simply to hard a pattern to brocade? I guess if we have no period
        examples that's good enough to show they weren't depicted in brocade
        though.


        --
        Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
        disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
        "It's no use trying to be clever-- we are all clever here; just try
        to be kind -- a little kind." F.J. Foakes-Jackson
      • Jenn Ridley
        On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 16:24:33 -0400 (EDT), Jenne Heise ... Most rose brocades today use the really full, multiple-layers of petals roses. Those roses are not
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 7 2:39 PM
          On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 16:24:33 -0400 (EDT), Jenne Heise
          <jenne@...> wrote:

          >> Brocade is period.... depending on the design in the fabric. Modern roses
          >> are "out".
          >
          >Question: why, specifically? Centifolia roses are period as roses; are
          >they simply to hard a pattern to brocade? I guess if we have no period
          >examples that's good enough to show they weren't depicted in brocade
          >though.

          Most rose brocades today use the really full, multiple-layers of
          petals roses. Those roses are not period. Yes, centifolia roses are
          period, and if you can find a brocade with them on it, I don't see any
          reason why you couldn't use it. Just don't use the drapery brocades
          with asymmetrical bouquets of cabbage roses....

          stasia
          --
          Anastasia Ivgenova
          jridley@...
        • Jenne Heise
          ... Oops. The centifolia ( hundred-petalled ) aka cabbage roses were once thought to be the roses mentioned by a greek author, but many rose experts now
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 10 7:27 AM
            > Most rose brocades today use the really full, multiple-layers of
            > petals roses. Those roses are not period. Yes, centifolia roses are
            > period, and if you can find a brocade with them on it, I don't see any
            > reason why you couldn't use it. Just don't use the drapery brocades
            > with asymmetrical bouquets of cabbage roses....

            Oops. The centifolia ('hundred-petalled') aka cabbage roses were once
            thought to be the roses mentioned by a greek author, but many rose experts
            now believe that the centifolia roses were developed in the early 17th
            century. ("Sacred Iron Posies" in the Florilegium puts the date at the end
            of the 16th century.)

            --
            Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
            disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
            "It's no use trying to be clever-- we are all clever here; just try
            to be kind -- a little kind." F.J. Foakes-Jackson
          • Patricia Hefner
            This fabric doesn t have roses on it. I actually haven t looked at it that much because I m busy with the red velveteen, and thank goodness that worked out OK.
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 10 9:40 AM
              This fabric doesn't have roses on it. I actually
              haven't looked at it that much because I'm busy with
              the red velveteen, and thank goodness that worked out
              OK. I need some heavy stuff for colder weather and the
              gold stuff is pretty light, good for a Meridian spring
              or fall but a bit much for summer. As a waterbearer I
              like to be practical with my garb as long as I'm not
              breaking the rules. No pink sequin trim for me. :-) I
              have a mundane pink sequined thingie and it's an
              atrocity. :-)

              Isabelle


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            • Jenn Ridley
              On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:27:16 -0400 (EDT), Jenne Heise ... Ooops. You re right. I read it as quadrafolia (four petal). My bad. Try for a flat rose (tudor
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 10 12:00 PM
                On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:27:16 -0400 (EDT), Jenne Heise
                <jenne@...> wrote:

                >> Most rose brocades today use the really full, multiple-layers of
                >> petals roses. Those roses are not period. Yes, centifolia roses are
                >> period, and if you can find a brocade with them on it, I don't see any
                >> reason why you couldn't use it. Just don't use the drapery brocades
                >> with asymmetrical bouquets of cabbage roses....
                >
                >Oops. The centifolia ('hundred-petalled') aka cabbage roses were once

                Ooops. You're right. I read it as quadrafolia (four petal). My bad.


                Try for a flat rose (tudor rose, for example....)

                stasia
                --
                Jenn Ridley
                jridley@...
              • Jenne Heise
                ... Not all period roses were flat-petaled, by the way: there were double gallicas, and gallicas themselves aren t merely the heraldic roses. -- Jadwiga
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 10 2:16 PM
                  > Try for a flat rose (tudor rose, for example....)

                  Not all period roses were flat-petaled, by the way: there were double
                  gallicas, and gallicas themselves aren't merely the heraldic roses.

                  --
                  Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
                  disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
                  "It's no use trying to be clever-- we are all clever here; just try
                  to be kind -- a little kind." F.J. Foakes-Jackson
                • Jenn Ridley
                  On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:16:15 -0400 (EDT), Jenne Heise ... True, but did any of them ever show up on brocades? I was under the impression (perhaps mistaken)
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 11 5:43 AM
                    On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:16:15 -0400 (EDT), Jenne Heise
                    <jenne@...> wrote:

                    >> Try for a flat rose (tudor rose, for example....)
                    >
                    >Not all period roses were flat-petaled, by the way: there were double
                    >gallicas, and gallicas themselves aren't merely the heraldic roses.

                    True, but did any of them ever show up on brocades? I was under the
                    impression (perhaps mistaken) that rose brocades in period were flat
                    roses.....

                    stasia
                    --
                    Anastasia Ivgenova
                    jridley@...
                  • Rick Orli
                    Re offer below, yes please. Can anyone recommend an article or book that is sort of a survey of fabric types available in the 15-17th C for dummys ? Also,
                    Message 9 of 9 , Sep 14 1:20 PM
                      Re offer below, yes please. Can anyone recommend an article or book
                      that is sort of a 'survey of fabric types available in the 15-17th C
                      for dummys' ?

                      Also, what is the meaning of your reference to 'Polish fabric
                      merchant'
                      -Rick

                      >If you want some book titles that have period pictures of fabric
                      designs let
                      > me know and I'll post them.
                      >
                      > Maria Pienkneplotno.... Polish fabric merchant
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