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Re: [sig] Re: passamenterie fastenings -Polish/Hungarian style

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  • Diane Sawyer
    ... From: Rick Orli ... Well, what did you try, so that we don t recommend the same thing that already doesn t work? What *I* would do is
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 6 10:08 AM
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Rick Orli" <orlirva@...>


      >
      > --- In sig@y..., "Rick Orli" <orlirva@y...> wrote:
      > > I just finished my kontuz (Polish style overcoat) except for the
      > > buttons, which are of the passamenterie type, (ribbons that end in
      > > buttons, as was typical for many Polish/Hungarian/Russian style
      > > garmets.) http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/images/BOKontuz1.gif
      > > is a drawing of the kontuz.
      > >
      > > Can anyone point me to a 'how to'?
      > > Thanks! Rick Orli
      >
      >
      > Oh come on, I know somebody out there knows how to do this. I tried
      > some experiments this weekend, and the results were, shall we say,
      > disapointing. Thanks!
      > -Rick

      Well, what did you try, so that we don't recommend the same thing that already
      doesn't work?

      What *I* would do is sew the ribbon down the way it's supposed to look, then
      get the button kits from the fabric store to make covered buttons and make
      buttons using a bit of the ribbon, and sew them where they're supposed to be.
      Just my thoughts. If the covered button kits aren't the right size, I can
      tell you how I was told to make stuffed buttons.

      Tasha
    • Rick Orli
      What I tried was to have a base ribbon, with a three-yarn twisted cord around the outside, and make a button or loop out of the cord, and tease out the other
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 7 7:04 AM
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        What I tried was to have a base ribbon, with a three-yarn twisted
        cord around the outside, and make a button or loop out of the cord,
        and tease out the other end. Unfortunately, the product looked bad..
        although perhaps I would have had better luck with a better type of
        cord and more practice, or if I knew what I was doing :) The hardest
        part seemed to be the button. I am not sure also if this is
        historically accurate, although I think it is OK.

        Another way that I know is historically accurate is to take a woven
        ribbon (with medium yarn) and use macramé skills to make a loop and
        button. I know a type of knot called a 'button knot' (or 'foil tip'
        knot because it was used in the old days to wrap the tips of fencing
        foils) for the button end. However I do not have the skill or loom
        to weave the ribbon, and the only suitable pre-woven ribbon I have or
        can buy locally is a wrong color. I have no actual macramé skills at
        this time, but I can work on that if I thought that was the right way
        to go.

        Another way, similiar but with a heavier cord, is sort of like the
        passamenterie 'frogs' you can buy pre-made, but what I would need is
        not like any manufactured style I can find.

        The method you suggest below might produce acceptable results. Do
        you think it is historically accurate? I think 19th C. military
        uniform passamenterie fastenings were sometimes made sort of like
        that, but I would have thought not in the 16-17th C. (cheap machine
        made ribbon was not available until about 1680) (If not accurate,
        perhaps the base of the button could be wrapped in such a way that
        its method of construction is not evident.) I was also considering
        using 'passamenterie buttons'... premade ball buttons that look like
        they are knotted out of cord.

        -Rick
      • landolf@deseretmail.com
        Rick, Try this site: http://www.vertetsable.com/periodstyle.htm Or try Janet Arnold s Patterns of Fashion Landolf ... tried ... in
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 7 8:06 AM
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          Rick,
          Try this site: http://www.vertetsable.com/periodstyle.htm
          Or try Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion"
          Landolf


          --- In sig@y..., "Rick Orli" <orlirva@y...> wrote:
          > Oh come on, I know somebody out there knows how to do this. I
          tried
          > some experiments this weekend, and the results were, shall we say,
          > disapointing. Thanks!
          > -Rick
          >
          > --- In sig@y..., "Rick Orli" <orlirva@y...> wrote:
          > > I just finished my kontuz (Polish style overcoat) except for the
          > > buttons, which are of the passamenterie type, (ribbons that end
          in
          > > buttons, as was typical for many Polish/Hungarian/Russian style
          > > garmets.) http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/images/BOKontuz1.gif
          > > is a drawing of the kontuz.
          > >
          > > Can anyone point me to a 'how to'?
          > > Thanks! Rick Orli
        • Diane Sawyer
          ... From: Rick Orli {snip} ... Well, you could make ribbon out of strips of fabric, and as far as the buttons, you could do the stuffed
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 7 10:51 AM
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Rick Orli" <orlirva@...>


            {snip}
            >
            >
            > The method you suggest below might produce acceptable results. Do
            > you think it is historically accurate? I think 19th C. military
            > uniform passamenterie fastenings were sometimes made sort of like
            > that, but I would have thought not in the 16-17th C. (cheap machine
            > made ribbon was not available until about 1680) (If not accurate,
            > perhaps the base of the button could be wrapped in such a way that
            > its method of construction is not evident.) I was also considering
            > using 'passamenterie buttons'... premade ball buttons that look like
            > they are knotted out of cord.
            >
            > -Rick

            Well, you could make "ribbon" out of strips of fabric, and as far as the
            buttons, you could do the stuffed button thing (there's a good tutorial with
            pictures at the Renaissance Tailor site
            http://www.vertetsable.com/periodstyle.htm) You can disguise the shanks of
            the buttons by wrapping them with thread.

            If you want to do knotted buttons, there is a really good tutorial on them at
            http://www.9v.com/crystal/kerij-e/docs/knots.htm Yes, they're Chinese, but
            it's the best I can come up with on short notice. :-)

            Hope this helps!

            Tasha
          • Rick Orli
            Thanks, the chinese knot stuff is great! -Rick ... as the ... tutorial with ... shanks of ... on them at ... Chinese, but
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 10 12:12 PM
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              Thanks, the chinese knot stuff is great!
              -Rick

              > Well, you could make "ribbon" out of strips of fabric, and as far
              as the
              > buttons, you could do the stuffed button thing (there's a good
              tutorial with
              > pictures at the Renaissance Tailor site
              > http://www.vertetsable.com/periodstyle.htm) You can disguise the
              shanks of
              > the buttons by wrapping them with thread.
              >
              > If you want to do knotted buttons, there is a really good tutorial
              on them at
              > http://www.9v.com/crystal/kerij-e/docs/knots.htm Yes, they're
              Chinese, but
              > it's the best I can come up with on short notice. :-)
              >
              > Hope this helps!
              >
              > Tasha
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