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passamenterie fastenings -Polish/Hungarian style

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  • Rick Orli
    I just finished my kontuz (Polish style overcoat) except for the buttons, which are of the passamenterie type, (ribbons that end in buttons, as was typical for
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 2, 2001
      I just finished my kontuz (Polish style overcoat) except for the
      buttons, which are of the passamenterie type, (ribbons that end in
      buttons, as was typical for many Polish/Hungarian/Russian style
      garmets.) http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/images/BOKontuz1.gif
      is a drawing of the kontuz.

      Can anyone point me to a 'how to'?
      Thanks! Rick Orli
    • Rick Orli
      Oh come on, I know somebody out there knows how to do this. I tried some experiments this weekend, and the results were, shall we say, disapointing. Thanks!
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 6, 2001
        Oh come on, I know somebody out there knows how to do this. I tried
        some experiments this weekend, and the results were, shall we say,
        disapointing. Thanks!
        -Rick

        --- In sig@y..., "Rick Orli" <orlirva@y...> wrote:
        > I just finished my kontuz (Polish style overcoat) except for the
        > buttons, which are of the passamenterie type, (ribbons that end in
        > buttons, as was typical for many Polish/Hungarian/Russian style
        > garmets.) http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/images/BOKontuz1.gif
        > is a drawing of the kontuz.
        >
        > Can anyone point me to a 'how to'?
        > Thanks! Rick Orli
      • Diane Sawyer
        ... From: Rick Orli ... Well, what did you try, so that we don t recommend the same thing that already doesn t work? What *I* would do is
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 6, 2001
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Rick Orli" <orlirva@...>


          >
          > --- In sig@y..., "Rick Orli" <orlirva@y...> wrote:
          > > I just finished my kontuz (Polish style overcoat) except for the
          > > buttons, which are of the passamenterie type, (ribbons that end in
          > > buttons, as was typical for many Polish/Hungarian/Russian style
          > > garmets.) http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/images/BOKontuz1.gif
          > > is a drawing of the kontuz.
          > >
          > > Can anyone point me to a 'how to'?
          > > Thanks! Rick Orli
          >
          >
          > Oh come on, I know somebody out there knows how to do this. I tried
          > some experiments this weekend, and the results were, shall we say,
          > disapointing. Thanks!
          > -Rick

          Well, what did you try, so that we don't recommend the same thing that already
          doesn't work?

          What *I* would do is sew the ribbon down the way it's supposed to look, then
          get the button kits from the fabric store to make covered buttons and make
          buttons using a bit of the ribbon, and sew them where they're supposed to be.
          Just my thoughts. If the covered button kits aren't the right size, I can
          tell you how I was told to make stuffed buttons.

          Tasha
        • Rick Orli
          What I tried was to have a base ribbon, with a three-yarn twisted cord around the outside, and make a button or loop out of the cord, and tease out the other
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 7, 2001
            What I tried was to have a base ribbon, with a three-yarn twisted
            cord around the outside, and make a button or loop out of the cord,
            and tease out the other end. Unfortunately, the product looked bad..
            although perhaps I would have had better luck with a better type of
            cord and more practice, or if I knew what I was doing :) The hardest
            part seemed to be the button. I am not sure also if this is
            historically accurate, although I think it is OK.

            Another way that I know is historically accurate is to take a woven
            ribbon (with medium yarn) and use macramé skills to make a loop and
            button. I know a type of knot called a 'button knot' (or 'foil tip'
            knot because it was used in the old days to wrap the tips of fencing
            foils) for the button end. However I do not have the skill or loom
            to weave the ribbon, and the only suitable pre-woven ribbon I have or
            can buy locally is a wrong color. I have no actual macramé skills at
            this time, but I can work on that if I thought that was the right way
            to go.

            Another way, similiar but with a heavier cord, is sort of like the
            passamenterie 'frogs' you can buy pre-made, but what I would need is
            not like any manufactured style I can find.

            The method you suggest below might produce acceptable results. Do
            you think it is historically accurate? I think 19th C. military
            uniform passamenterie fastenings were sometimes made sort of like
            that, but I would have thought not in the 16-17th C. (cheap machine
            made ribbon was not available until about 1680) (If not accurate,
            perhaps the base of the button could be wrapped in such a way that
            its method of construction is not evident.) I was also considering
            using 'passamenterie buttons'... premade ball buttons that look like
            they are knotted out of cord.

            -Rick
          • landolf@deseretmail.com
            Rick, Try this site: http://www.vertetsable.com/periodstyle.htm Or try Janet Arnold s Patterns of Fashion Landolf ... tried ... in
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 7, 2001
              Rick,
              Try this site: http://www.vertetsable.com/periodstyle.htm
              Or try Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion"
              Landolf


              --- In sig@y..., "Rick Orli" <orlirva@y...> wrote:
              > Oh come on, I know somebody out there knows how to do this. I
              tried
              > some experiments this weekend, and the results were, shall we say,
              > disapointing. Thanks!
              > -Rick
              >
              > --- In sig@y..., "Rick Orli" <orlirva@y...> wrote:
              > > I just finished my kontuz (Polish style overcoat) except for the
              > > buttons, which are of the passamenterie type, (ribbons that end
              in
              > > buttons, as was typical for many Polish/Hungarian/Russian style
              > > garmets.) http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/images/BOKontuz1.gif
              > > is a drawing of the kontuz.
              > >
              > > Can anyone point me to a 'how to'?
              > > Thanks! Rick Orli
            • Diane Sawyer
              ... From: Rick Orli {snip} ... Well, you could make ribbon out of strips of fabric, and as far as the buttons, you could do the stuffed
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 7, 2001
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Rick Orli" <orlirva@...>


                {snip}
                >
                >
                > The method you suggest below might produce acceptable results. Do
                > you think it is historically accurate? I think 19th C. military
                > uniform passamenterie fastenings were sometimes made sort of like
                > that, but I would have thought not in the 16-17th C. (cheap machine
                > made ribbon was not available until about 1680) (If not accurate,
                > perhaps the base of the button could be wrapped in such a way that
                > its method of construction is not evident.) I was also considering
                > using 'passamenterie buttons'... premade ball buttons that look like
                > they are knotted out of cord.
                >
                > -Rick

                Well, you could make "ribbon" out of strips of fabric, and as far as the
                buttons, you could do the stuffed button thing (there's a good tutorial with
                pictures at the Renaissance Tailor site
                http://www.vertetsable.com/periodstyle.htm) You can disguise the shanks of
                the buttons by wrapping them with thread.

                If you want to do knotted buttons, there is a really good tutorial on them at
                http://www.9v.com/crystal/kerij-e/docs/knots.htm Yes, they're Chinese, but
                it's the best I can come up with on short notice. :-)

                Hope this helps!

                Tasha
              • Rick Orli
                Thanks, the chinese knot stuff is great! -Rick ... as the ... tutorial with ... shanks of ... on them at ... Chinese, but
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 10, 2001
                  Thanks, the chinese knot stuff is great!
                  -Rick

                  > Well, you could make "ribbon" out of strips of fabric, and as far
                  as the
                  > buttons, you could do the stuffed button thing (there's a good
                  tutorial with
                  > pictures at the Renaissance Tailor site
                  > http://www.vertetsable.com/periodstyle.htm) You can disguise the
                  shanks of
                  > the buttons by wrapping them with thread.
                  >
                  > If you want to do knotted buttons, there is a really good tutorial
                  on them at
                  > http://www.9v.com/crystal/kerij-e/docs/knots.htm Yes, they're
                  Chinese, but
                  > it's the best I can come up with on short notice. :-)
                  >
                  > Hope this helps!
                  >
                  > Tasha
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