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Re: [sig] Polish titles (was Livery & retainers and squires

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  • Vaclav von Pressburg
    On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 03:56:34PM -0400, Jenne Heise wrote: . . . ... Don t forget the non-Polish usage. I m most familiar with Slovak/Rusyn usage -- Pana
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 27, 2001
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      On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 03:56:34PM -0400, Jenne Heise wrote:
      . . .
      > Ok, a response from someone with a Polish persona. 'Pan' was translated
      > into other languages as 'Sir' or even 'Baron' but it is/was the LOWEST,
      > most generic title for those of the szlachta (the entire 10% of the Polish
      > nation who were 'of noble birth'). So, it actually is one of the few
      > titles that fits generic SCA usage for its culture. I have never, ever
      > heard or read anything to indicate that Pan or Pani ever indicated some
      > special rank.

      Don't forget the non-Polish usage. I'm most familiar with Slovak/Rusyn
      usage -- Pana Maria (the Virgin Mary), and Pani (especially a priest's
      wife, but also respectful of any married woman) and Pan X, meaning
      someone important, but not necessarily noble.

      --
      Waclaw von Pressburg Veritas liberabit uos
      vaclav@...
    • Jenne Heise
      ... By the way, in modern times, Pan and Pani are the Polish equivalents of Mr. and Mrs. -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@mail.browser.net
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 27, 2001
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        > usage -- Pana Maria (the Virgin Mary), and Pani (especially a priest's
        > wife, but also respectful of any married woman) and Pan X, meaning
        > someone important, but not necessarily noble.

        By the way, in modern times, Pan and Pani are the Polish equivalents of
        Mr. and Mrs.

        --
        Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
        disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
        "It's no use trying to be clever-- we are all clever here; just try
        to be kind -- a little kind." F.J. Foakes-Jackson
      • Robert L. Parker
        Thank you all for the valuable information. I am not sure what to think about the Pan thing. I don t want to annoy any knights or give people the wrong
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 28, 2001
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          Thank you all for the valuable information. I am not sure what to think
          about the "Pan" thing. I don't want to annoy any knights or give people
          the wrong impression that think that's what it means. I think I will
          stick with Pomestnik for now. BTW Pomestnik is the Russian alternate
          title for Lord. Someone asked. Art, I believe.
          But back to the squire thing. So my best option there is to go with
          something like "loyal retainer?" What are the best options there?


          Thanks,
          Pomestnik Sergei
          "Loyal Retainer" to Baron Sir Conrad Von Zuberbuhler
        • Jenne Heise
          ... However, the trouble with that is that you are feeding the wrong impression that these knights are creating... -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 29, 2001
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            > Thank you all for the valuable information. I am not sure what to think
            > about the "Pan" thing. I don't want to annoy any knights or give people
            > the wrong impression that think that's what it means.

            However, the trouble with that is that you are feeding the wrong
            impression that these knights are creating...

            --
            Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
            disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
            "It's no use trying to be clever-- we are all clever here; just try
            to be kind -- a little kind." F.J. Foakes-Jackson
          • Jenny Stewart
            ... However, the trouble with that is that you are feeding the wrong impression that these knights are creating... Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 29, 2001
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              > Thank you all for the valuable information. I am not sure what to think
              > about the "Pan" thing. I don't want to annoy any knights or give people
              > the wrong impression that think that's what it means.

              However, the trouble with that is that you are feeding the wrong
              impression that these knights are creating...
              Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...

              Right! And besdies, let the arrogant be offended, let the mis-infomred be
              re-informed, let the Right Use prevail.
              Bad Heraldy, & similar habits, like mis-information is Self-replicating.
              Dare to be different & right.
              Enna
              Instigator & herald
            • Brent Rachel
              ... Amen! Use Pan for your title, instead of Pomestnik.., and then use the retainer title for your relationship with your Knight!! Kazimir Petrovich
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 29, 2001
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                RE: using PAN:

                --- Jenny Stewart <tbv@...> wrote:

                > Right! And besdies, let the arrogant be offended,
                > let the mis-infomred be
                > re-informed, let the Right Use prevail.
                > Bad Heraldy, & similar habits, like mis-information
                > is Self-replicating.
                > Dare to be different & right.
                > Enna
                > Instigator & herald

                Amen! Use Pan for your title, instead of Pomestnik..,
                and then use the "retainer" title for your
                relationship with your Knight!!

                Kazimir Petrovich
                Ansteorra

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