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Re: [sig] Linen weight

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  • Jenn/Yana
    ... I do remember reading (in the context of Celtic clothing) that murex purple is one of the more successful natural dyes on linen. I think that you could
    Message 1 of 11 , May 1 7:56 PM
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      >As for linen colors - I agree with Yana's list in the main, but the Scythian
      >warrior garments from the "Scythian Gold" exhibit consist of armor over a
      >linen shirt and pants of a faded warm berry pink color, probably originally
      >dyed red. And since red seems to always be the right color for "Russians",
      >I'm sure they would have spent a lot of effort trying to dye linen red.
      >
      >Soraya

      I do remember reading (in the context of Celtic clothing) that murex purple
      is one of the more successful natural dyes on linen. I think that you
      could get a purple-red from it. One thing to think about is if the
      Scythian outfit could have been stained from being buried in something (did
      the exhibit say anything about the dye?). Another thing to consider would
      be if the method(s) for dyeing linen in shades of red could have been
      "lost" and "refound" at various times during Russia's history, perhaps
      making red linen not "period" for some times. I'm really just playing
      "devil's advocate" here, I'd love to hear more details on medieval Russian
      textiles, myself.

      --Yana
    • Robert J Welenc
      ... have heard ... not ... One of the Viking ladies at Atlantia s recent coronation was naalbinding viking socks with natural-dyed wool -- in lavender and
      Message 2 of 11 , May 2 8:00 AM
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        At 09:06 PM 4/30/01 -0500, you wrote:
        >>Colors could be pretty much any out there now except the neons. I
        have heard
        >>of people getting lime green and Barbie pink from natural dyes, so
        not
        >>everything would have been earth colors.

        One of the Viking ladies at Atlantia's recent coronation was
        naalbinding viking socks with natural-dyed wool -- in lavender and
        bright lemon yellow!

        Alanna
        ***********
        Saying of the day: Those who fail to prepare, prepare to fail.
      • Lente
        Yeah I forgot about it being wool in that tapestry. I tend to think of colors and right now I don t necessarily associate the color to a speciaifc fiber like
        Message 3 of 11 , May 2 4:25 PM
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          Yeah I forgot about it being wool in that tapestry. I tend to think of
          colors and right now I don't necessarily associate the color to a speciaifc
          fiber like wool. Gotta work on that. My bad.:o(

          Speaking of which I just got some pale lime green wool in a twill and also a
          dark fushia/purple wool, I'm think of making a jacket in the lime green
          based off of my tunic pattern and the fushia/purple I'm going to make a
          Hungarian szur ( for SCA and modern use) out of, not the right color but I
          definitely shudder and cringe at using white in the desert, where all that
          dirt will just show up soo well.

          Kathws Rusa
          Doing the Wakka-Wakka dance, my name passed kingdom. WooHoo!;^)


          Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001

          > I'm not sure about linen coming in all the above colors in SCA-period
          > Russia, or for that matter, SCA-Europe. Linen is notoriously difficult to
          > dye (even today some colors will rub off, because most dyes only cling to
          > the surface of the fibers, this being one of the reasons linen resists
          > staining so well). The only colors that I can remember linen being
          > available in in Russia were raw (greyish), bleached (white), offwhite,
          > yellow (I think), and grey-blue. Yes, all the above colors the quoted
          > person mentioned were available, but I think that they only apply to wool,
          > cotton, and silk. <time passes> I just checked the materials of the
          > Unicorn tapestry: Wool warp, wool, silk, silver, and gilt wefts. No
          linen.
          > I'm not trying to disprove the person above, I'm just trying to point out
          > that _linen_ may not have been available in every color of the rainbow.
          >
          > --Yana
        • Su Ralston
          ... If the on-line fabric store you are purchasing from is Fabrics-store.com, they are very contecious and quick. The medium weight is nice for shirts/under
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 16, 2004
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            > From: Mikhail Nicholaev <mikhail@...>
            > Subject: Clothing questions
            >
            > <snipped>
            >
            > But being still fairly new to all things not-cotton, what weight do you
            > all recommend? I found a site listing linen in light, medium and heavy
            > weight, and being in Meridies (Georgia) I was thinking Medium would be
            > light enough to not be sweltering and sturdy enough to deal with my wear
            > and tear on it.
            >
            If the on-line fabric store you are purchasing from is Fabrics-store.com,
            they are very contecious and quick. The medium weight is nice for
            shirts/under tunics, (3.5 oz may be better for warm weather, but the 5.3 oz
            is great when it's not in the 90's). The heavy weight would be better for
            vests, coats and pants.

            > So with the side clasped neck, what type of clasps would it have been?
            > Wooden? Gold? And would it have been trimmed?
            >
            Since you should have buttons with stems (rather than discs with holes), I
            would recommend something other than wood (unless you are going to use
            spherical beads and make the buttons yourself).

            > As for colors, I was thinking red as the shirt itself and gold as an
            > accent in the trim.
            >
            Red would look nice, but if you have any concerns that the red is going
            bleed onto the gold, use a single color, then add trim to the neck and cuff
            areas.

            > Thoughts? comments? Slaps upside the head?
            Sorry, you'd like it too much!

            Su of the Silver Horn, Caid
            Su Ralston, Fullerton, CA
            (Yana - nice webpage BTW!)
          • Lente
            I am cutting and pasting from another list that someone posted these linen weights and silk weights. hope this helps.--kathws These are the general
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 16, 2004
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              I am cutting and pasting from another list that someone posted these linen
              weights and silk weights. hope this helps.--kathws

              These are the general recommendations for linen weights. I didn't write
              them- I don't remember who did, unfortunately!

              Hanky Linen (usually 3.5 oz) - Good for veils, chemises, linings, etc.

              Lightweight linen (usually 3.6-4.2 oz) - Good for veils, chemises, linings,
              tunics when you'll be wearing two or more, skirts (again, if you'll be
              layering) harem pants, etc.

              Medium weight linen (usually 4.3-5.5 oz) - Good for tunics, skirts, bodices,

              most any type of gown. The most common weight used in garb.

              Heavy weight linen (5.6-7.2 oz and beyond) - Good for heavy-duty garb like
              fencing vests and pants, garb that will get much stress put on it like
              side-laced bliauts, etc. The 5.6 range is good for back-laced cotehardies.
              Line a coat
              weight wool cloak in 7.2 oz linen and you'll never go cold, though you might

              faint from exhaustion after walking round all day in it. Good bed blanket,
              that.

              ---

              As for silk, I can make a few garb recommendations based on weight, though
              everyone's welcome to chime in and tell me that I'm completely wrong! Silk
              generally goes by mm weight- that is, momme (pronounced "mummy", I think),
              though
              heavy weight silks, such as suiting silks, go by grams or have no weight
              listed.

              1-8 mm: These are usually sheer or semisheer, and quite wispy. I've never
              seen anything below 3 or 3.5 mm, which is very airy, transparent silk gauze.

              Lighter weight habotai (habutai, also called "China silk") falls into this
              category, as does lighter-weight chiffon (not georgette, it seems) and
              organza
              (other than "heavy" organza).

              10-18mm: Ten mm or so seems to be when things begin to become solid rather
              than sheer, though 12mm is still quite light. Silk satin (not heavy bridal
              satin) is in this area, as are some habotais, georgettes, heavy organza,
              some
              charmeuse, most crepe de chine. Most jacquards also fall into this
              category, as
              do some tussahs.

              18mm and up: Heavier weight silk. Most charmeuse, some crepe de chine.
              Some
              jacquards, some dupioni (Chinese dupioni, as seen at Silk Connection, is
              19mm). Tussah boucle, some other tussahs, heavy bridal satin (23mm), heavy
              charmeuse.

              The weights given are all from www.silkconnection.com. Silk taffeta was not
              given a weight but is considered "lightweight" (I'm not sure if that makes
              it sheer or not- some taffetas seem to be sheer, others are quite opaque).
              Fuji broadcloth is measured in pound-weights (10lb), silk noil did not have
              a
              weight listing but can be lightweight or heavier (I have noil thin enough
              that it needed a backing). Silk/rayon velvets, burnout and solid, are not
              given
              weights but are generally considered to be heavy in large quantities <g>.
            • Mikhail Nicholaev
              Thanks so much for all the responses, and thanks Lente for your response with info on Silk, I was about to ask about it as well. I ll probably go hit up the
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 16, 2004
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                Thanks so much for all the responses, and thanks Lente for your response
                with info on Silk, I was about to ask about it as well. I'll probably go
                hit up the local fabric store this weekend and see what they have.

                One question which got overshadowed was about clasps for the neck. I
                have a friend who does bone work and she suggested toggles. Does anyone
                know if bone was used for these or were they wood and precious metal?

                --
                Vsegda k vashim uslugam
                Ever at your Service
                Pomestnik Mikhail Nicholaev
                http://www.argenthawk.com/penning/

                Head of the
                House of St. Ambrose

                Lente wrote:
                > I am cutting and pasting from another list that someone posted these linen
                > weights and silk weights. hope this helps.--kathws
                >
                > These are the general recommendations for linen weights. I didn't write
                > them- I don't remember who did, unfortunately!
                >
                > Hanky Linen (usually 3.5 oz) - Good for veils, chemises, linings, etc.
                >
                > Lightweight linen (usually 3.6-4.2 oz) - Good for veils, chemises, linings,
                > tunics when you'll be wearing two or more, skirts (again, if you'll be
                > layering) harem pants, etc.
                >
                > Medium weight linen (usually 4.3-5.5 oz) - Good for tunics, skirts, bodices,
                >
                > most any type of gown. The most common weight used in garb.
                >
                > Heavy weight linen (5.6-7.2 oz and beyond) - Good for heavy-duty garb like
                > fencing vests and pants, garb that will get much stress put on it like
                > side-laced bliauts, etc. The 5.6 range is good for back-laced cotehardies.
                > Line a coat
                > weight wool cloak in 7.2 oz linen and you'll never go cold, though you might
                >
                > faint from exhaustion after walking round all day in it. Good bed blanket,
                > that.
                >
                > ---
                >
                > As for silk, I can make a few garb recommendations based on weight, though
                > everyone's welcome to chime in and tell me that I'm completely wrong! Silk
                > generally goes by mm weight- that is, momme (pronounced "mummy", I think),
                > though
                > heavy weight silks, such as suiting silks, go by grams or have no weight
                > listed.
                >
                > 1-8 mm: These are usually sheer or semisheer, and quite wispy. I've never
                > seen anything below 3 or 3.5 mm, which is very airy, transparent silk gauze.
                >
                > Lighter weight habotai (habutai, also called "China silk") falls into this
                > category, as does lighter-weight chiffon (not georgette, it seems) and
                > organza
                > (other than "heavy" organza).
                >
                > 10-18mm: Ten mm or so seems to be when things begin to become solid rather
                > than sheer, though 12mm is still quite light. Silk satin (not heavy bridal
                > satin) is in this area, as are some habotais, georgettes, heavy organza,
                > some
                > charmeuse, most crepe de chine. Most jacquards also fall into this
                > category, as
                > do some tussahs.
                >
                > 18mm and up: Heavier weight silk. Most charmeuse, some crepe de chine.
                > Some
                > jacquards, some dupioni (Chinese dupioni, as seen at Silk Connection, is
                > 19mm). Tussah boucle, some other tussahs, heavy bridal satin (23mm), heavy
                > charmeuse.
                >
                > The weights given are all from www.silkconnection.com. Silk taffeta was not
                > given a weight but is considered "lightweight" (I'm not sure if that makes
                > it sheer or not- some taffetas seem to be sheer, others are quite opaque).
                > Fuji broadcloth is measured in pound-weights (10lb), silk noil did not have
                > a
                > weight listing but can be lightweight or heavier (I have noil thin enough
                > that it needed a backing). Silk/rayon velvets, burnout and solid, are not
                > given
                > weights but are generally considered to be heavy in large quantities <g>.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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