Re: [sig] Klobuky no.2
I can see how some people may get upset here (I apologize in advance) as we continue. If you wish to write to me privately please do so.
Let me begin with the fact that historians distinguish two periods: Kievskaya Rus and Moskovskaya Rus. If you are familiar with the history, the Moscow period begins with Prince Andrei Bogolyubsky (4th generation of Yaroslav Mudry and the Grandson of Vladimir Monomachus), who as the legal Prince of Kiev (Rurikovich) decided to live in Vladimir (instead of Kiev) and further with Czar Ivan III (Rurikovich in the 11th generation from Vladimir Monomachus and 13th from Yaroslav Mudry, 14th from St. Vladimir, and 17th from Rurik) who used the official title of Grand Duke of Moscow and Czar of all the Rus (Velikiy Knyaz Moskovsky i Vseya Rusi). I am not sure why you would refer to 1700's maps that are 300 years removed from that time. Some foreign maps may in fact designate Russia in the Northern War as the Grand Duchy of Moscow (or Muscovy, which I guess that would be in English).
Btw, for your information in all the chronicles the old cities are spelled the same way as they are now in Russian (i.e. "Chernigov" and not "Chernihiv", or "Podol'skiy" and not "Podil'skiy". Btw, that "o" instead of "i" is also a characteristic in the Lemko (Carpatho-Russian) language. The Hutsuls in Rumania are called "Ruthens". The Lemkos in Poland are called "Ruski" and in Slovakia "Rusyny". The historical province of Ruthenia is known as Galicia (only a small part of Ukraine) for the capital of the Carpathian (or Chervona) Rus "Galich." The Latin term "Ruthenia" was applied by the Austrians, Hungarians, and Rumanians. There are a lot of rumors about the famous prince Daniil (Danylo) of Galich (4th generation of Vladimir Monomachus) but do not forget that he and Prince Alexander Nevsky (3rd generation of Yuriy Dolgoruky, 4th of Vladimir Monomachus) were cousins and Danylo's daughter married Alexander's brother. I would also suggest the life of St. Job of Pochayev.
Myself a Uke, I sometimes feel embarrassed for some of the things like those you have said. It is as if to say at first "We are not Russians but Ukrainians" and then "But we have more rights to be called the Russians." I do not know if you speak Russian or Ukrainian but for a native speaker it is quite clear (by all rules of any Slavic language) that by adding the suffix "sky" to the word "Rus" you will get "Russky". Btw, in the Ukrainian documents from the time of the Zaporozhye Sich the term Ukraine is used to designate a Russian province (literally: "Rus'ka ukraina") under a foreign rule. The Ukrainains of that time speak of their language and religion as "Rus'ka Mova" and "Rus'ka Vira."
----- Original Message -----
From: E D
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 10:26 PM
Subject: [sig] Klobuky no.2
I thought Russkiy meant Russian? Never have I heard "of the Rus". Look
at the maps of the Battle of Poltava(1709). It says Muscovian Cavalry, not
Russian. I am confusing English names? Carpatho-Russians? When did they
call themselves this? They call themselves Carpatho-Rusyns(I am aware that
they along with others - Boykos, Hutsuls, have their own distinct
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