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Re: [sig] Slavigc Pagan Beliefs

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  • MHoll@aol.com
    I had the same reaction as Dmitriy -- if they destroyed *all* written documents, how can you tell what was there? -- I like the Velcro theory, though -- LOL As
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 24, 2001
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      I had the same reaction as Dmitriy -- if they destroyed *all* written documents, how can you tell what was there? -- I like the Velcro theory, though -- LOL

      As for the rest, I used to be a fairly consistent proponent of the "dvoeverie" or "dual faith", a theory according to which pagan and Christian beliefs mixed in equal parts and permeated all of religious life in Russia (as opposed, of course, to anywhere else).

      Then I became a folklorist and discovered that "dual faith" is a state of being for most cultures. Celtic tradition is a lot like Russian, except that the Church did not manage to destroy all written Celtic documents... ;-)

      As for the rest of the article, I stopped at "Rod and Rozhanitsa" -- it was enough. Do not rely AT ALL on this text for ANY historical realism. Yes, Rod and Rozhanitsy, commonly associated with fertility rites, do appear in old texts and OOP folklore, but exactly *what* they were, at any time in Russian history, is not anywhere as clear as the article makes it sound.

      >> Other examples of dualism are - the two Rozhinitsy, >> the mother and daughter fates, the spirits of >> midnight, Polunocnitsa and noon, Poludnitsa - both >> times seen to be equally as frightening, and the >> Zorya - Goddesses of dusk and dawn.

      Anytime you see an author affirming the existance of a Slavic gods, let all alarms ring! Once again, I have to shout *THERE IS **NO** EVIDENCE OF ANY KIND OF PANTHEON OF SLAVIC GODS*, at least not for East Slavs (Russians, Ukrainians and Belarussians).

      Some historians have linked medieval Russian architectural and decorative designs with fertility symbols -- water, earth, seeds, germination, etc. HOWEVER, this is ALL *conjecture* and should NEVER, EVER be taken as gospel truth. Again, THERE JUST IS NO EVIDENCE!

      Predslava,
      on her soapbox.
    • stasi.wa
      Hello, I would like to introduce myself, I just joined this group. I am Baroness Anastasia Alexandrovna Andreeva. I am in the SCA I have played for 22 years
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 24, 2001
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        Hello,
        I would like to introduce myself, I just joined this group.
        I am Baroness Anastasia Alexandrovna Andreeva. I am in the SCA I have played
        for 22 years and have been researching my Russian and Slavic personas for 16
        years. I mostly research 16-17th century Russia so I am not an expert on
        pagan beliefs, however, It is stated in many,
        many books how the the ancient slavs worshipped the sun, hence the blini
        being round etc. Would that not be classified as a God since it was
        worshipped?
        Just a thought.
        Nice to meet you all,
        Baroness Anastasia
        also known as
        Anya the Gypsy
        and familiarly as
        stasi
      • Dmitriy V. Ryaboy
        ... It s wrong!! :) Actually, not quite so bad.. The bit about the slavic runes is bogus (calling the runic alphabet Vlesovitsa is a giveaway -- that denotes
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 24, 2001
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          >From: Shadow <shadow42@...>
          >Hi Folks,
          >This
          >particular article is in English, and I don't vouch for its reliability
          >because I'm sure someone will say it's wrong, but here it is anyway.

          It's wrong!! :)

          Actually, not quite so bad..

          The bit about the slavic runes is bogus (calling the runic alphabet
          "Vlesovitsa" is a giveaway -- that denotes the alphabet claimed to have been
          used for the Book of Veles, a known fake).
          Don't you just love the "they had all this writing but then Christians
          started burning books and burned them _all_" argument? The Romans were very
          clever at hiding their advanced velcro technology, too.. how else do you
          think they kept those togas on?

          The rest of the article looks okay, but I only skimmed it and don't really
          know the subject. Betcha 10 rubles they used Ivanits as a source -- she's
          big on dvoeverie.

          -Dmitriy
          P.S. the url of the actual page is
          http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/hpsofsnert/beli.html .


          _________________________________________________________________
          Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
        • Shadow
          ... Plus, I thought it was the Turks who had runes (yeah the Vikings had them too.) ... I think it s more likely that they didn t have writing. ... Yeah and
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 24, 2001
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            "Dmitriy V. Ryaboy" wrote:

            >
            > The bit about the slavic runes is bogus

            Plus, I thought it was the Turks who had "runes" (yeah the Vikings had them
            too.)

            >
            > Don't you just love the "they had all this writing but then Christians
            > started burning books and burned them _all_" argument?

            I think it's more likely that they didn't have writing.

            > The Romans were very
            > clever at hiding their advanced velcro technology, too.. how else do you
            > think they kept those togas on?

            Yeah and the same with the Egyptian anti-grav units to build the Pyramids.

            Leya
          • V. J. Boitchenko
            Interesting observation! I cannot imagine square or triangular bliny. Although it is quite possible if you have special utensils. Yarilo was in fact the god of
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 25, 2001
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              Interesting observation! I cannot imagine square or triangular bliny. Although it is quite possible if you have special utensils.
               
              Yarilo was in fact the god of sun and the pagan faith of the Slavs was in fact naturalistic as well as most other pagan faiths. Interestingly the author of the article mentions the feast of Maslenitsa which is celebrated by the Orthodox only. It translates literally as "Dairy Feast" and stands for the week before the Great Lent (Cheesefare Week in English) when people are supposed to abstain from all meats but eggs and dairy are permitted. I have not heard of any other roots of the word although I am sure that the Slavs had some celebration of the Spring Equinox.
               
              The rest of the article was very naively. It was obviously biased towards the Eastern Slavs and the author seemed to confuse folk mythology with religion, which is not very uncommon. I would be interested in what they have to say about witchcraft however. I picked up a couple of brochures from the University at St. Petersburg last year that study witchcraft of some local groups in the North West of Russia.
               
              v 
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: stasi.wa
              Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 11:11 AM
              Subject: Re: [sig] Slavigc Pagan Beliefs

              Hello,
              I would like to introduce myself, I just joined this group.
              I am Baroness Anastasia Alexandrovna Andreeva. I am in the SCA I have played
              for 22 years and have been researching my Russian and Slavic personas for 16
              years. I mostly research 16-17th century Russia so I am not an expert on
              pagan beliefs, however, It is stated in many,
              many books how the the ancient slavs worshipped the sun, hence the blini
              being round etc. Would that not be classified as a God since it was
              worshipped?
              Just a thought.
              Nice to meet you all,
              Baroness Anastasia
              also known as
              Anya the Gypsy
              and familiarly as
              stasi


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