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Re: [sig] period eating utensils

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  • Anne M. McKinney
    Ok, and what kind of cups/mugs/bowls did they drink out of? (REally pushing it now -_-) Once when I was in a museum I saw examples of big ladle-like bowls
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
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      Ok, and what kind of cups/mugs/bowls did they drink out of? (REally pushing
      it now -_-) Once when I was in a museum I saw examples of big ladle-like
      bowls that important people drank out of, but I don't know which time
      periods those date to or if that style was restricted to only the
      higher-ups. If not, how can I find one today? ^_^

      --Sofya Chyudka
      Thanks for all the help!
    • Anne M. McKinney
      ... can t ... of ... New ... That is more than fair. I think kovsh sounds right, by your description--they looked to me like heavily decorated, boat-shaped
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
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        > Anne, I loaned my books out, which is why I didn't reply earlier and
        can't
        > give details now -- if you give me a month I'll come back with all sorts
        of
        > pictures and dates and things. Well, month and a half, I won't do it on
        New
        > Years' Eve :).
        > Not sure what you mean by the big ladle-like thing, but I think you are
        > talking about a kovsh, which is basically a bowl with a handle. Those
        > existed in the 13th century too.
        >
        > -Dmitriy

        That is more than fair. I think kovsh sounds right, by your
        description--they looked to me like heavily decorated, boat-shaped bowls
        with handles. Thank you,
        --Sofya
      • Jenne Heise
        ... I ve seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled spoons carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases... -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
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          > Spoons and knives. Wood, bone, the usual materials. No forks.
          > Predslava.

          I've seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled spoons
          carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases...
          --
          Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
          disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
          "I do my job. I refuse to be responsible for other people's managerial
          hallucinations." -- Lady Jemina Starker
        • Britta Parsons
          ... spoons ... Where have you seen these spoon cases? How late is very late period? And what did the designs on them look like? What s more, where can I
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
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            >>I've seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled
            spoons
            >>carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases...

            Where have you seen these spoon cases? How late is "very late period?"
            And what did the designs on them look like? What's more, where can I
            find pictures of them?

            Vasilisa Myshkina
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          • Jenne Heise
            ... Oh dear, I m having one of my vague moments. I _think_ one of them may be in the Russian embroidery books-- Kat ryna? Any clues? -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
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              > >>I've seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled
              > spoons
              > >>carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases...
              > Where have you seen these spoon cases? How late is "very late period?"
              > And what did the designs on them look like? What's more, where can I
              > find pictures of them?
              > Vasilisa Myshkina

              Oh dear, I'm having one of my vague moments. I _think_ one of them may be
              in the Russian embroidery books-- Kat'ryna? Any clues?

              --
              Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
              disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
              "I do my job. I refuse to be responsible for other people's managerial
              hallucinations." -- Lady Jemina Starker
            • Robert J Welenc
              ... spoons ... But surely they had eating tools before late period -- soup and suchlike is damned awful difficult to eat without a spoon! Alanna ***********
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
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                At 01:55 PM 12/3/00 -0500, you wrote:
                >> Spoons and knives. Wood, bone, the usual materials. No forks.
                >> Predslava.
                >
                >I've seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled
                spoons
                >carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases...

                But surely they had eating tools before late period -- soup and
                suchlike is damned awful difficult to eat without a spoon!

                Alanna
                ***********
                Saying of the day:
                Politics is a rotten egg; if broken, it stinks. - Russian Proverb
              • Dmitriy V. Ryaboy
                Laura, Your line of reasoning is not very good, but it is true that (rich) nobles had spoons, bowls and other gear made out of silver. They were definately in
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
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                  Laura,
                  Your line of reasoning is not very good, but it is true that (rich) nobles
                  had spoons, bowls and other gear made out of silver. They were definately in
                  use by the 13th century.
                  Anne, I loaned my books out, which is why I didn't reply earlier and can't
                  give details now -- if you give me a month I'll come back with all sorts of
                  pictures and dates and things. Well, month and a half, I won't do it on New
                  Years' Eve :).
                  Not sure what you mean by the big ladle-like thing, but I think you are
                  talking about a kovsh, which is basically a bowl with a handle. Those
                  existed in the 13th century too.

                  -Dmitriy

                  >I thought the concept of 'silverware' came from Persia. It could possibly
                  >have
                  >appeared in Kievan Rus via Khazaria/the Silk Road. That's what I think
                  >anyway.
                  >But probably only the nobles could have afforded it.
                  >
                  >Laura
                  >
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                • Olan Mikkelsen
                  ... bowls ... I saw several examples of this type of utinsel while I was in Poland. One was made out of a what looked like a large snail shell and the
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
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                    <snip>

                    > That is more than fair. I think kovsh sounds right, by your
                    > description--they looked to me like heavily decorated, boat-shaped
                    bowls
                    > with handles. Thank you,

                    I saw several examples of this type of utinsel while I was in
                    Poland. One was made out of a what looked like a large snail shell
                    and the handle looked like a turtle's head. Dated xvii-xviii
                    centuries.

                    Landolf
                  • Olan Mikkelsen
                    ... spoons ... The Szlachta, or nobility, in Poland carried these in their boots during the Hussar era (xvi-xviii centuries). Some of the cases contained
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
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                      --- In sig@egroups.com, Jenne Heise <jenne@m...> wrote:
                      > > Spoons and knives. Wood, bone, the usual materials. No forks.
                      > > Predslava.
                      >
                      > I've seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled
                      spoons
                      > carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases...

                      The Szlachta, or nobility, in Poland carried these in their boots
                      during the Hussar era (xvi-xviii centuries). Some of the cases
                      contained knives and forks, too.
                      I purchased a silver spoon in Germany and have made a case for it.
                      The spoon has a rose motif on the handle that is supposedly from the
                      time of the reign of Charlemagne.

                      Landolf
                    • Olan Mikkelsen
                      ... period? ... I ... I have a picture of one in the catalog from the exhibit The Land of the Winged Horsemen . I can scan it and send it to you, if
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
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                        <snip>
                        > Where have you seen these spoon cases? How late is "very late
                        period?"
                        > And what did the designs on them look like? What's more, where can
                        I
                        > find pictures of them?

                        I have a picture of one in the catalog from the exhibit "The Land of
                        the Winged Horsemen". I can scan it and send it to you, if you like.

                        Landolf
                      • Kate Jones
                        ... Erm, uhh. I m remembering spoons but not spoon cases...I ll have to look. Kat ryna -- Kate Jones | I turned my world
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
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                          Jenne Heise sez:
                          >
                          > > Where have you seen these spoon cases? How late is "very late period?"
                          > > And what did the designs on them look like? What's more, where can I
                          > > find pictures of them?
                          > > Vasilisa Myshkina
                          >
                          > Oh dear, I'm having one of my vague moments. I _think_ one of them may be
                          > in the Russian embroidery books-- Kat'ryna? Any clues?

                          Erm, uhh. I'm remembering spoons but not spoon cases...I'll have to look.

                          Kat'ryna
                          --
                          Kate Jones | I turned my world upside-down
                          kate@... | and that's how everything landed...
                        • Britta Parsons
                          Landolf Yes, a picture would be useful. Thank you. Vasilisa ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
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                            Landolf

                            Yes, a picture would be useful. Thank you.

                            Vasilisa
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                          • Jenn/Yana
                            ... Yes, it is a kovsh. Drinking-vessels with a single handle that is (usually) offset vertically and runs parallel to the ovate or boat-shaped bowl. --Yana
                            Message 13 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
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                              >> That is more than fair. I think kovsh sounds right, by your
                              >> description--they looked to me like heavily decorated, boat-shaped
                              >bowls
                              >> with handles. Thank you,

                              Yes, it is a kovsh. Drinking-vessels with a single handle that is
                              (usually) offset vertically and runs parallel to the ovate or boat-shaped bowl.

                              --Yana

                              http://www.russianarts.com/fab2kovsh.html
                              A silver-gilt and shaded cloisonné enamel kovsh decorated with acorns on
                              dark blue background in the Pan-Slavic style. By Fabergé,
                              Moscow,1896-1908, length - 3.25"
                              Modern, but drool, drool.

                              http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/6422/apc5.html
                              Bratina and Kovsh Novgorod, 1428-1435; Moscow, 16th c. Silver
                              If you look at the kovsh, there is a little figure at the bottom. Probably
                              meant as a suprise for the boyar who drinks all his mead! :-)

                              http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/6422/apc4.html
                              Novgorod, 1428-1435; Moscow, first quarter of the 16th c. Silver Hammering,
                              engraving, casting, gilding 17x12x5 cm; 35.5x24x5 cm
                            • Olan Mikkelsen
                              It ll have to be this weekend when I get to my home computer. Yana, if I send the pics to you, too , can you put them in the picture archive? Landolf
                              Message 14 of 18 , Dec 5, 2000
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                                It'll have to be this weekend when I get to my home computer.

                                Yana, if I send the pics to you, too , can you put them in the
                                picture archive?

                                Landolf

                                --- In sig@egroups.com, Britta Parsons <vasalisa@j...> wrote:
                                > Landolf
                                >
                                > Yes, a picture would be useful. Thank you.
                                >
                                > Vasilisa
                                > ________________________________________________________________
                                > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                                > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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                              • Jenn/Yana
                                ... Sure! I always welcome pictures for the archive. And pictures for the photo gallery of SIG people too (hint, hint). --Yana, who is awaiting the end of
                                Message 15 of 18 , Dec 5, 2000
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                                  >Yana, if I send the pics to you, too , can you put them in the
                                  >picture archive?
                                  >
                                  >Landolf

                                  Sure! I always welcome pictures for the archive. And pictures for the
                                  photo gallery of SIG people too (hint, hint).

                                  --Yana, who is awaiting the end of the semester anxiously, not only because
                                  she will finally be graduating, but because she can update the Russian
                                  Knowledge Page and work on other SIG related matters. :-)
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